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The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

General conversations about BMW E28s and the people who own them.
garageboy
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The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by garageboy »

As promised, here is the serious version of this note. Personally, I think the sarcastic version works better. Feedback (pruning, in particular) welcome.
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Welcome to the MYE28 Cars For Sale subforum. If you have a BMW for sale, and more specifically an E28 for sale, this is the definitive place in the USA to see your car go to a good home. Please read this note before posting your advertisement.

You should put this information with your advertisement; it's absolutely essential for cars above that $5000 threshold, but even for anything but a parts car:
  • Mileage (and status of odometer gears).
  • Year and make.
  • Transmission type (auto or manual)
  • Location of seller/car.
  • Price (believe if or not, some folks still forget this)
  • How many owners and/or where the car has lived - this is mainly to help us determine the likelihood of rust having developed in the past 25 years.
  • Working A/C? If not, how long has it been out?
  • Major repairs done within the past year. If you have more service history going back further, even better.
  • If you have used factory parts, let us know. This is important to many of us.
In addition, here are some do's and don'ts. First, the do's:
  • Photos sell the car. The number of photos required is directly related to the asking price.
  • Post a couple representative medium-resolution photos within the advert using the [IMG] tag. There are a plethora of good free photo-sharing sites available now for the lion's share of your photos, where it is better to post the high-resolution photos. Then provide a link to the photo album.
  • Do not use a cellphone camera unless it is a high quality camera with a good flash (10Mpixel+)
  • Take your photos during the day, outside, in indirect sunlight.
  • Present photos taken now, at the time you're writing your advertisement. Old photos rarely increase your chances of sale, and may unnecessarily raise questions.
  • If your car is a $1000 parts car, we just need one or two photos to let us know the general condition and whether we'll need a flatbed truck to get it home.
  • If you're asking somewhere between $1000 and $3000 for your car, a few more photos would be helpful because people spending this money on an E28 are mostly concerned with items like rust and major body damage. A couple photos of the interior are also helpful.
  • If you're asking over $3000, wash the car before you take your photos. Clean and vacuum out the interior.
  • Anyone spending between $3000 and $5000 will be expecting to spend another $1000-2000 to get the car into proper condition. No one is expecting a perfect car in this price range, but at that price, people expect the car to run without major issues. Photos that view the car from all angles, as well as a couple interior shots that show the engine compartment, trunk, and interior are also very helpful. It helps us figure out where we will need to spend that additional money once we purchase it.
  • Take a clear photo of the driver's seat. If there is a seat cover on it, you can take a photo with the cover. But take another photo with the cover removed. Buyers need to know what they're dealing with because recovering a driver's seat can get rather expensive, particularly on an M5.
  • If you're asking over $5000 for an E28, whether a 528e or 533i/535i, a clean car is expected. Photos will show us how clean it is. Take photos of the car from all angles and add individual shots of body panels. When you take photos of the interior, take them of individual items (the dashboard, the headliner, the driver's seat, the driver's footwell, the passenger's seat, etc.).
  • If you're asking in excess of $10000, for ANY model of E28, you're now in a different league. Make sure you have taken photos of everything. This includes everything mentioned previously, as well as VIN stickers (there are 10 on the body of a US model), undercarriage shots, shots in the trunk (with and without the carpet and spare tire) and enough photos that would make any potential seller feel like they have seen the car without physically being there. This is 2014, and the community of buyers is now international. Respect that reality and you will find a happy buyer.
  • A couple more notes about high end cars over $10k: if you have compression and leak-down test figures, as well as recent alignment measurements, it's great to include a scan of these tests since some buyers might insist upon this in lieu of a pre-purchase inspection. Also, in that price range, service history is a critical component of the car's value. Include as much information as you can there.
  • (optional) If you are unsure of the efficacy of your advertisement, PM one of the people on the forum you observe has successfully sold cars and car parts here before and ask them their opinion before you post it. Despite our acerbic wit, most of us are genuinely kind and helpful people and are willing to spend a few minutes to advise you.
Here are a few don'ts:
  • No hyperbole. Hyperbole scares enthusiasts.
  • Never say "photos pending". Write the advert. Take the photos. Then post the advert/photos.
  • Saying things like "great car" and "never let me down" and "strong runner" and "shifts like butter" mean nothing to us, since we are not you, we do not know you, and we do not know what you are comparing your E28 experience to.
  • Don't bump your advertisement every day or every other day or once a week or once an anything... the only way to generate interest in an item not selling is by lowering your price.
  • Do no simply re-post your eBay advertisement. This is a much more sophisticated audience, and your ad has to assume this right away (see first "don't").
  • Don't try to hide things. If there is any bad news, disclose it up front. It will do wonders for your credibility and can be the difference between a deal and no deal.
While there is a sucker born every minute, very few of them reside on this forum, and violating these suggestions will likely ensure that you do not sell your car to one of us. Moreover, and there are plenty of examples in the For Sale subforum to back this up, leaving out details, or being cagey about certain information on the car, will likely earn your advertisement a place in our For Sale Hall of Shame, and no one ever sells a car once they end up there. Good luck with the sale!
Last edited by garageboy on Jan 10, 2014 10:24 PM, edited 4 times in total.
KillerPM
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Post by KillerPM »

This is really good.

While I feel too many people are too lazy to actually follow it, its a great guideline...
Sportfury70
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Post by Sportfury70 »

I dig it. I was just searching for one and this would have made my experience a much better one. I got lucky with the the car I got, and the selller is still in touch to answer any questions I have.

The only thing I see is that price can vary on location. A no (or low) rust car commands a higher price in the rust belt than it does in a place like here in seattle. Not that you need to change anything, but may be good to note.
Motronic
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Post by Motronic »

Also on the higher end cars compression numbers are very helpful as well as record keeping of maintenance done.
tig
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Post by tig »

This thread sucks.

You need to learn to use BBcode or no one will ever take you seriously. It is way too hard to read numbered lists that don't wrap right because you were too lazy to type a few angle brackets.

Sheesh.
tig
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Post by tig »

I'm wondering if I should have included a smiley there.
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

cek wrote:I'm wondering if I should have included a smiley there.
:rofl:
Mike W.
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Post by Mike W. »

I do most of that stuff for anything besides a parts car. I would add mentioning any service history you have, and always, always, show a pic of the drivers seat. A picture of a great passenger seat tells me the drivers seat is crap and the seller is trying to BS me. Some things are regional, like rust, which is very unusual here on the west coast, but a real problem back east. A/C would be a must in the desert, but in Maine who would care.
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

Thanks for the feedback. Made some edits and did some rearranging...
tig
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by tig »

(deleted, since garageboy incorporated my edits)
Last edited by tig on Jan 10, 2014 3:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

Thanks, cek, I wasn't sure how to bulletize and my html instincts did not help... :)

I do disagree with you on the inline vs. external site for images. When I sold my E39 wheels (that bimmersultan could not find in his momentary lapse of never being a DB), I was able to post extremely high resolution photos on my website and link to it. If I had posted those photos inline, my for sale note would have taken forever to load and would have pissed people off.

Right?

I think it would be OK to post one or two medium-resolution teaser photos within the advert, but not the whole lot. [edited]
tig
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Post by tig »

garageboy wrote: I do disagree with you on the inline vs. external site for images. When I sold my E39 wheels (that bimmersultan could not find in his momentary lapse of never being a DB), I was able to post extremely high resolution photos on my website and link to it. If I had posted those photos inline, my for sale note would have taken forever to load and would have pissed people off.

Right?

I think it would be OK to post one or two medium-resolution teaser photos within the advert, but not the whole lot. [edited]
My point is that there should be SOME representative pics inline. Not all, just some. So I think we are in agreement.
davintosh
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Post by davintosh »

Great stuff. Too bad though that the people who most need to follow this advice won't.

As for the large photos upload a smaller version (-400 pixels wide) along with the big then use img tags to show the small and URL link to the big.

All the same, well done. :up:
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

davintosh wrote:Great stuff. Too bad though that the people who most need to follow this advice won't.
Yeah, but think of how much more satisfying a crapfest will be when those people don't follow this advice... :rofl:
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

Added tactful bumping advice...
garageboy
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Post by garageboy »

So no interest in making a sticky? What if someone else cuts and pastes the info? ;)
djazz
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Post by djazz »

Great advice and sticky-worthy, but not snarky enough imo.
tig
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Post by tig »

sticky. sticky. sticky.

c'mon, the guy worked sooo hard!
tig
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Post by tig »

I really wish this were a sticky in the For Sale section.
WilNJ
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Post by WilNJ »

TL:DR

Gotta car for sale, hit me up...texts only.

:poke:
Adam W in MN
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by Adam W in MN »

Just wondered if this was ever considered for sticky status in the cars FS forum? Also I thought of another thing that for sale ads could do without, not sure if it merits inclusion in the what not to write section, but here goes.

Why do many ads go to great lengths to tell me that the car was owned by an executive in the import/export business on the East Coast? Or a noted surgeon in Springfield? WTF, why do I care what their profession is? Some blue collar owners keep up on maintenance better than affluent 1st owners who "bought" the car on lease, but knew they were turning it in after 24 months for a new one and never did a damn thing that wasn't required or shouted at them on the on board computer display.
garageboy
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by garageboy »

This is how I see these sorts of things...

When I am searching for an E28 or E30 for myself or my friends/clients, I am going to end up doing a sort of forensic investigation on the likely specimen. I was not there between 198x and Monday, June 2nd 2014, so I have to surmise what happened with the car in all that time. That is pretty darned difficult. Like in any forensic investigation, for the information you don't know, you end up guessing, and marking that information as "suspect". Sometimes you get lucky and fill in some details that allows those guesses to be replaced by substantiated information (like a receipt or a part that I subsequently replaced) that increase the value of that information in the investigation...

So when someone says it was owned by "a wealthy dude", that is often to indicate that no expense was spared in its maintenance. Now, as you rightfully pointed out, without any additional evidence, that is just bullshit, but if you have a stack of receipts that back up that claim, then you can rightfully assume that between the owner and his receipts, the car WAS maintained properly, if not "over-maintained", and then if the condition of the car that you observe confirms all this, you get a warm, fuzzy feeling.

When I saw every oil change receipt in November/December to winter oil of my car's ownership, with the mileage recorded, and then a receipt in April for summer oil with barely a hundred miles recorded over each winter, I was able to be certain that the owner wasn't bullshitting me about his claim that the car never saw winter, and the condition of the car backed that up. So my feeling is: I welcome all information, since I will be the dude to validate any information I get about a car. As you pointed out, we may ultimately determine that the "wealthy dude" had way more money than brains, or that he was ripped off repeatedly. So my approach is: collect it all, sniff it all, process it all, partner it all, exploit it all. OMFG, what have I become?? :laugh:
Karl Grau
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by Karl Grau »

Adam W in MN wrote:. Why do many ads go to great lengths to tell me that the car was owned by an executive in the import/export business on the East Coast? Or a noted surgeon in Springfield? WTF, why do I care what their profession is?
I dunno, if it was owned by say,someone like Jon Voight, I'd wanna know.


Image
garageboy
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by garageboy »

Seeing all the "information" people are posting with their for-sale advertisements lately, it's time for a...

BUMP!!
davintosh
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by davintosh »

Don't you think this might stand a better chance of being read by the people needing the advice if it were in the For Sale/Wanted - Cars forum? It may sound pessimistic, but I still don't think they'd heed the advice, good as it is. Good on you for banging your drum though. :up:

I vote for moving the thread and stickying it. All those in favor...
waynet1
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by waynet1 »

davintosh wrote: Good on you for banging your drum though. :up:
I vote for moving the thread and stickying it. All those in favor...
Yay. :up:
Mark in Toronto
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by Mark in Toronto »

From this thread:
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122518
Jeremy wrote:
Mark in Toronto wrote:If anything, based on the discussion in this thread, standardized advertising guidelines is worthy of consideration as a way to improve how cars and parts are presented for sale on this forum.
And what do you want done when some knucklehead comes along and posts whatever they feel like anyway?

I'm all for a template of some kind. If someone wants to write up a good one, I'll sticky it and make it an announcement in the FS forum. What I won't do is make its usage a requirement, because that would require review of every single new thread in that forum, and an individual interaction with each poster who doesn't adhere to it.

It'd be a lot of work.

If someone were to write up a template, it would need to be as basic and flexible as possible. The stricter it is, the less likely people would be to use it IMHO.
garageboy
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by garageboy »

Sticky? Gosh I'm not looking for immortality... :oops:

But seriously, if one more person reads it and doesn't post a boneheaded advert as a result... yay.
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by davintosh »

Don't let it go to your head or anything, Steve. ;)
Mark in Toronto
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Re: The totally serious... How to Sell Your BMW note

Post by Mark in Toronto »

Given that the sun has set on Mye28.com, I don't see the need to sticky standardized advertising guidelines in the For Sale/Wanted Cars sub-forum.
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