Delayed clutch action - What gives?

[TheYoungSir]

For the past several years, I've always had a difficult time shifting into first from a stop, and from first to second. The simple remedy was to depress the clutch pedal for two seconds before going from Neutral to First.
It's always bothered me, but not enough to warrant replacing parts until the master cylinder broke last week. I just replaced master, slave, and reinforced the pedal with David Pepin's bracket.

After bleeding the system and taking it for a short test drive, the pedal feels firm. Unfortunately, the clutch stays engaged for an even longer period of time. Now the pedal must be depressed five to seven seconds before you can shift into first. The shift into second isn't smooth either, but seems to be no worse than before.
Even more mysteriously, the system seems to be working as a whole. While I suspected that the clutch might have been dragging going from third, fourth, and fifth at speed happens without a problem.

Does anyone know what the problem is? I'm suspecting a crushed hardline at this point, but I'm hoping that I've just missed something obvious.

[tn535i]

I would guess it's more likely the clutch disc is sticking on the input shaft and dragging on either the PP or FW so it doesn't slow down or in the opposite case allow the syncros to speed it up as easily.

3,4&5 are probably just closer to being rev matched when you shift.

[demetk]

Could be bad hydraulics or bad clutch components. You can eliminate bad hydraulics by verifying slave piston travel. Minimum travel should be .75", slave travel is spec'd at .9" but I doubt if you can get that.

[Coldswede]

I agree with the sticking clutch plate suggestion. Do you have an oil leak at the rear of the engine?

[TheYoungSir]

Forgot to mention that the car shifts much smoother after it's driven for a while. I'm not sure whether or not it's the car heating up or something else, but after a half hour of driving, all gears get much easier to shift between.

...more likely the clutch disc is sticking

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. You might be right with the rev-matching too; there turns out to be no difference between shifting into second and shifting to second without using the clutch.

..You can eliminate bad hydraulics by verifying slave piston travel...

I'm in no rush to climb back under the car to verify all new parts, but that's a lot cheaper than buying un-necessary parts. I'll see about getting back under there soon.

I agree with the sticking clutch plate suggestion. Do you have an oil leak at the rear of the engine?

The engine uses oil, and I'm not sure where it's going. It's certainly possible, but I have no idea if that's where the oil ends up. How would I go about checking if that's the case?

[Mike W.]

Forgot to mention that the car shifts much smoother after it's driven for a while. I'm not sure whether or not it's the car heating up or something else, but after a half hour of driving, all gears get much easier to shift between.

While not ruling out a sticky clutch, my first step would be to change the tranny oil. Regular 90 makes for poor shifting and if someone stuck 140 in there who knows how bad it would be. Search, there's a thousand threads on it with more passion in some of them than political ones.

[TheYoungSir]

While not ruling out a sticky clutch, my first step would be to change the tranny oil. Regular 90 makes for poor shifting and if someone stuck 140 in there who knows how bad it would be. Search, there's a thousand threads on it with more passion in some of them than political ones.

I changed the oil myself a few years ago with a mix of 50/50 mix of MTL and Redline MT-90 (GL4). It leaks a bit from the rear seal, but I assume that double-clutching would solve any problems with low-oil levels (It doesn't).

The clutch has 100k miles on it, so it's probably approaching the end of it's lifespan regardless of stickiness.
Sachs seems like manufacturer of choice for all non-turbo cars, so I'll look for them.
Do I need anything not included in bavauto's complete kit? (CK 567 4/84 ) Are there any upgrades worth getting while I'm in there? (Flywheel perhaps)?

[Mike W.]

Depending on how you drive with 100K on it you could be due or have an easy 100K left in it.

My money says that leaky rear seal is really the selector shaft seal, it's right above and easy to mistake for the rear main seal.

Sachs is good stuff, flywheel upgrade if you have a late 533/535 would be an early 533 flywheel. Lighter and spins up much faster. And an easy 20HP when bench racing.

[TheYoungSir]

I see what you mean about the selector shaft seal, that location makes a lot more sense than the rear seal.

I'll tackle the job in a few weeks then. Hopefully it fixes the problem, if not I'll just label it as preventative maintenance.

RealOEM says that the cutoff date for the flywheel change is January 1984. With mine dating 1986, does anyone have an early one they're looking to sell?

[rollcentre]

My clutch was binding/sticking as well.

The delay is probably the 1st gear synchro trying to grab. Do you notice the car wanting to roll forward when you try to put it in gear?

I did Dave's pedal reinforcement, new pedal bracket, hydraulics etc. it never really fixed the problem until I replaced the clutch and clutch release components. I did all the tricks to try to get it to go into first easier. A blip usually did it, and also grabbing 3rd before going into 1st seemed to work. I noticed that a blip while holding down the clutch would allow me to push the pedal down a little farther.

See my post earlier this week about my clutch install..driveway style. There is a picture of the worn down pivot piece. I believe that's where my binding was coming from..or possibly the throwout bearing's worn out bore, or like tn535i said with the disc dragging on the splines. Most likely all of above.