Feeler: reinforcement brackets for larger sway bars

[grey ghost]

I'm in the process of having some reinforcement brackets made for my ST 25/19s.
I wanted to know if there is any interest.
I can have a few extra sets made.

Also, what do you suggest in terms of materials?
I was thinking 16 gauge steel....

[athayer187]

I'd be interested if they're for the rears.

[mooseheadm5]

Someone wanted me to get on making them, but I haven't had time. I'm sure plenty of people will be interested if they are made properly.

[edlocke]

I get mine from Ireland Eng. they are awesome! they fit the M5 bars. I had mine welded on but you can bolt them on also.

[PROJECT. E28]

interested. Front and Rears.

[Blue Shadow]

interested. Front and Rears.

Fronts? grab the M5 parts with some suspension techniques bushings and call it good. About 25 bucks total for the parts. Don't forget to reinforce the strut mounted bracket which could use a bracket (filler piece).

[edlocke]

interested. Front and Rears.

Fronts? grab the M5 parts with some suspension techniques bushings and call it good. About 25 bucks total for the parts. Don't forget to reinforce the strut mounted bracket which could use a bracket (filler piece).

they are different mount than the non e28 M5 cars...not as strong as Ireland either.

[EuroShark]

Does IE list these reinforcements on their online store? I'm interested in some from wherever as long as they get the job done!

[edlocke]

Does IE list these reinforcements on their online store? I'm interested in some from wherever as long as they get the job done!

Call them and ask just to buy the bar mounts and bushings. They"ll sell ya front and back without the bars. I think it was 75-80$ for both front and rear.

[Grande Royal]

I bought IR 25mm front mounts as a kit, came with everything. I didn't weld them, I drilled and bolted them through the frame rail as IR recommended. Fit was perfect. Excellent design. Been on the car over a year now bar and brackets still as tight as the day I installed them. The only thing was it seemed they didn't want to sell the brackets without the bars, go figure. Installed my stock M5 front sway bar and never been happier in a corner until I added a rear factory strut bar.

[ahab]

interested. Front and Rears.

Fronts? grab the M5 parts with some suspension techniques bushings and call it good. About 25 bucks total for the parts. Don't forget to reinforce the strut mounted bracket which could use a bracket (filler piece).

they are different mount than the non e28 M5 cars...not as strong as Ireland either.

Keith meant part 25 here. Listed as $7 for the M5. Grind off your old ones and weld these on. The clasp side is listed as $6 each, hence the "about 25 bucks". Not sure what IE is selling but I'm willing to bet they are more expensive and will not offer any advantage over these...

[ealinn]

This is pretty fucked, earlier this week on my commute to work I started to think I could cut out some reinforcement kits and sell them affordably to the MyE28 community. Looks like you beat me to the punch.

I have also wondered about the IE setup, not just the brackets but the whole kit. Any reviews on their bars or is the ST bar set still the benchmark for the e28?

Eric

[tsmall07]

I wouldn't want to bolt on a reinforcement without a tube insert. The hollow e28 unibody crushes and deforms too easily. I would imagine you would get play over time.

Grande Royal,

Do you see any track or auto-x time or just street driving?

[vinceg101]

I too installed the IE mounting brackets for the M5 bars. Bolted the fronts on; they installed pretty easily. Same with the rears, but the problem with the rears (as with all the M5's) is the mounting bracket welded to the frame. BMW cheaped out on both the gauge of metal and welding. That 18mm rear is just too much for the thin metal, poor design of the bracket, and those lousy small 4 spot welds holding the whole mess on the frame. One spirited mountain drive and I popped a rear mount right off at the weld points.
If I keep the 535, I'll have to reinforce the rears (it's currently running without the rear bar completely). I've ordered about half a dozen rear mounts from BMW (they're only a few bucks a piece, but you have to wait 3 weeks for them), to try the ShawnD modification.

But if someone is up for designing and fabricating an improved rear bracket, I'm game.

[Frybrid 524td]

Very interested. I already have the weld-on M5 brackets for the front so I'm mostly interested in a solution for the rears.

[wkohler]

interested. Front and Rears.

Fronts? grab the M5 parts with some suspension techniques bushings and call it good. About 25 bucks total for the parts. Don't forget to reinforce the strut mounted bracket which could use a bracket (filler piece).

they are different mount than the non e28 M5 cars...not as strong as Ireland either.

Keith meant part 25 here. Listed as $7 for the M5. Grind off your old ones and weld these on. The clasp side is listed as $6 each, hence the "about 25 bucks". Not sure what IE is selling but I'm willing to bet they are more expensive and will not offer any advantage over these...

x2. I did that and it has held up great. You will need some flat stock if you decide to go with the energy suspension bushings from Summit. Next time, I'd just use the BMW parts.

I can't imagine Ireland Engineering's pieces being any better, especially after my experiences with their products.

*Deleted the photo. Sorry.

[tsmall07]

I can't imagine Ireland Engineering's pieces being any better, especially after my experiences with their products.

+1

Their parts work, but they're usually built with the "bare minimum" in mind. As long as you know that before you purchase, you're fine. My camber plates were what I was looking for and were at a decent price, but I would have been disapointed if I had expected Ground Control quality parts.

[95maxrider]

Sorry once again to bump another old thread, but I've got a question.

Can anyone post up a picture of how they reinforced their front/rear sway bar brackets? I'm in the process of putting together M5 bars for my 528e and I'm trying to decide if I should just get the Ireland Engineering brackets separately or try to build my own. I'm just having a hard time visualizing how/where the brackets are reinforced compared to stock.

I also seem to remember reading about people welding things, but can't remember exactly what. Can anyone fill me in or post up pics? Do the end link attachment points need reinforcement as well?

I already purchased Meyle E28 end links, and I'm hoping they work with the M5 bars. Can anyone verify?

Thank you!!!

[alpinass]

Part 25 - has been on BO in Germany for over 6 months. None in the States. I need a set ASAP.

[95maxrider]

D'oh....did some more digging and came across a thread I had read before and forgotten about

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=83268

And by 25, I assume you mean 41112230014 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=41&fg=10

But most importantly, this:
http://home.mindspring.com/~scrappycrow ... acket.html

Which shows me what to do for the rear, but what needs reinforcement in the front? In the mye28 thread above, one person said the FSB end link mounts to the strut need to be reinforced. Is this in addition to reinforcing the bar mounts?

[vinceg101]

D'oh....did some more digging and came across a thread I had read before and forgotten about

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=83268

And by 25, I assume you mean 41112230014 here:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=41&fg=10

But most importantly, this:
http://home.mindspring.com/~scrappycrow ... acket.html

Which shows me what to do for the rear, but what needs reinforcement in the front? In the mye28 thread above, one person said the FSB end link mounts to the strut need to be reinforced. Is this in addition to reinforcing the bar mounts?

Yes, that is the proper procedure. Dinan did this to my M535 when they installed the Stage 4 setup.

As for the rears, follow the ShawnD how-to. I did order what appeared to the correct part (Part #12, 16-11-1-178-673 here:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=45) for the body side bracket on the '88 535. Turned out it isn't, I can't find the part listed anywhere in any parts diagram. You will have to fabricate one; Dinan also did this for the M535i.

[95maxrider]

Yes, that is the proper procedure. Dinan did this to my M535 when they installed the Stage 4 setup.

As for the rears, follow the ShawnD how-to. I did order what appeared to the correct part (Part #12, 16-11-1-178-673 here:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=45) for the body side bracket on the '88 535. Turned out it isn't, I can't find the part listed anywhere in any parts diagram. You will have to fabricate one; Dinan also did this for the M535i.

Ok, so you mean follow ShawnD's instruction for the rear, then try to mimic the OEM M5 mount (or ShawnD's method?) for the front? What about reinforcing end link mounts, is that necessary? Do you have any pics of how everything turned out on your car? I'm very curious about the front.

Thanks!

[wkohler]

What does the E36 use for a bracket? The clasp piece and the bushing are the same as the M5 which is why you can get them quickly and cheaply. Perhaps there's an option there.

[mooseheadm5]

Front or rear? In the front it just bolts to the frame rail. I don't remember what the rear looks like.

[95maxrider]

Can anyone tell me if I can reuse the 528e rear mounting brackets with the M5 RSB, or do I need M5 mounting brackets for both the front and rear? Do US dealers still carry the M5 F/R mounting brackets?

My god this is far more difficult/involved than I was anticipating. I'm still not sure if/what I need to reinforce in the front of the car.

EDIT- From this thread:
http://69.10.146.61/viewtopic.php?t=114197

It sounds like yes, I need M5 brackets front and rear, and no, they are no longer available. If the set of M5 bars I buy doesn't come with brackets, do I have any options?

Can I use the Ireland Engineering brackets for M5 bars, or are they specific to the IE bars? I'm looking to buy a set of M5 bars but I'm not sure if they come with M5 brackets or not. If they don't, am I stuck trying to track down a set of used M5 brackets (since it looks like they NLA from the dealer)?

[BadM535i]

Someone just please make these

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/41112230014/ES67433/

[vinceg101]

Yes, that is the proper procedure. Dinan did this to my M535 when they installed the Stage 4 setup.

As for the rears, follow the ShawnD how-to. I did order what appeared to the correct part (Part #12, 16-11-1-178-673 here:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=45) for the body side bracket on the '88 535. Turned out it isn't, I can't find the part listed anywhere in any parts diagram. You will have to fabricate one; Dinan also did this for the M535i.

Ok, so you mean follow ShawnD's instruction for the rear, then try to mimic the OEM M5 mount (or ShawnD's method?) for the front? What about reinforcing end link mounts, is that necessary? Do you have any pics of how everything turned out on your car? I'm very curious about the front.

Thanks!

Can anyone tell me if I can reuse the 528e rear mounting brackets with the M5 RSB, or do I need M5 mounting brackets for both the front and rear? Do US dealers still carry the M5 F/R mounting brackets?

My god this is far more difficult/involved than I was anticipating. I'm still not sure if/what I need to reinforce in the front of the car.

EDIT- From this thread:
http://69.10.146.61/viewtopic.php?t=114197

It sounds like yes, I need M5 brackets front and rear, and no, they are no longer available. If the set of M5 bars I buy doesn't come with brackets, do I have any options?

Can I use the Ireland Engineering brackets for M5 bars, or are they specific to the IE bars? I'm looking to buy a set of M5 bars but I'm not sure if they come with M5 brackets or not. If they don't, am I stuck trying to track down a set of used M5 brackets (since it looks like they NLA from the dealer)?

Okay, sorry if I was being obtuse or not clear:
Fronts:
M5 FSB Frame Mounts: BMW pn 41-11-2-230-014 is NLA. Dinan used one of these on my M535 and welded it to the frame (as BMW M did). I could not find the standard E28 counterpart listed on RealOEM; in theory it might be same as the Bracket that locks around the bushing is what is different.
M5 FSB Brackets: BMW pn: 31-35-1-131-622 is sized to take the 25mm bar and its' larger bushing. The proper bushings have a lot of meat around them. There are some after-market bushings that reduce this meat significantly in order to use the smaller 19mm brackets. I would avoid these if you can, but if the M5 frame mount is NLA and you don't want the IE mount, then you might have to go this route (providing you also don't want to fabricate an entirely new mount from scratch).
The IE mount is a totally different fish as it is a larger bracket that wraps over the existing frame mount and around the frame itself. It uses the existing bolt in the frame mount but then you have drill a hole through the frame and bolt the rear of the mount with a through-bolt. I don't have picture of the ones I installed on my '88 535, but it worked well for the M5 bar installed. You can buy just the mounts from IE if you ask. The IE bars are the same size as the M5 bars so their mounts and bushings are interchangeable.

Rears:
This is where it gets sketchy when you look at RealOEM's diagrams.
M5 RSB Frame Mounts: Nothing is listed and the part is not even shown. Same for any of the E28's.
M5 RSB Brackets: BMW pn: 33-55-1-129-195. Again this where it gets weird and may be a mistake; they list the same part number for both the M5's 18mm bar as the standard E28 15mm bar. Maybe they are the same and bushing for both have the same outside dimension and only the inside is hollowed out more for the M5.
The IE RSB mounts and brackets work by attaching to the existing frame mounts, but as I explained earlier, these will fail; it's just a matter of time. (Of course, I installed mine wrong so this didn't help).

So to answer your specific questions:
1. No you cannot use standard E28 brackets and bushings with M5 bars; they're not big enough.
2. Yes you can use the IE mounts, brackets and bushings with your M5 bars.
3. Follow ShawnD's mod for reinforcing the RSB Frame Mounts. I was the one urging (ne begging) Moosehead to fabricate these so I could repair my '88 535.
4. FSB End Link Reinforcement: I would say yes that this is ultimately the proper method and should be done. However, you have to weigh this against the type of driving you're going to be doing. Tracking= definitely yes; moderate spirited driving= maybe or maybe not.
5. I have some photos from the IE install on the '88 but do not have anything clear on the M535s' Dinan suspension. That would take me some time before I can get the car up again and wheels off for photos. Too much to do over the next 3 weeks.

Hope this helps.

[95maxrider]

Yes, that is the proper procedure. Dinan did this to my M535 when they installed the Stage 4 setup.

As for the rears, follow the ShawnD how-to. I did order what appeared to the correct part (Part #12, 16-11-1-178-673 here:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=33&fg=45) for the body side bracket on the '88 535. Turned out it isn't, I can't find the part listed anywhere in any parts diagram. You will have to fabricate one; Dinan also did this for the M535i.

Ok, so you mean follow ShawnD's instruction for the rear, then try to mimic the OEM M5 mount (or ShawnD's method?) for the front? What about reinforcing end link mounts, is that necessary? Do you have any pics of how everything turned out on your car? I'm very curious about the front.

Thanks!

Can anyone tell me if I can reuse the 528e rear mounting brackets with the M5 RSB, or do I need M5 mounting brackets for both the front and rear? Do US dealers still carry the M5 F/R mounting brackets?

My god this is far more difficult/involved than I was anticipating. I'm still not sure if/what I need to reinforce in the front of the car.

EDIT- From this thread:
http://69.10.146.61/viewtopic.php?t=114197

It sounds like yes, I need M5 brackets front and rear, and no, they are no longer available. If the set of M5 bars I buy doesn't come with brackets, do I have any options?

Can I use the Ireland Engineering brackets for M5 bars, or are they specific to the IE bars? I'm looking to buy a set of M5 bars but I'm not sure if they come with M5 brackets or not. If they don't, am I stuck trying to track down a set of used M5 brackets (since it looks like they NLA from the dealer)?

Okay, sorry if I was being obtuse or not clear:
Fronts:
M5 FSB Frame Mounts: BMW pn 41-11-2-230-014 is NLA. Dinan used one of these on my M535 and welded it to the frame (as BMW M did). I could not find the standard E28 counterpart listed on RealOEM; in theory it might be same as the Bracket that locks around the bushing is what is different.
M5 FSB Brackets: BMW pn: 31-35-1-131-622 is sized to take the 25mm bar and its' larger bushing. The proper bushings have a lot of meat around them. There are some after-market bushings that reduce this meat significantly in order to use the smaller 19mm brackets. I would avoid these if you can, but if the M5 frame mount is NLA and you don't want the IE mount, then you might have to go this route (providing you also don't want to fabricate an entirely new mount from scratch).
The IE mount is a totally different fish as it is a larger bracket that wraps over the existing frame mount and around the frame itself. It uses the existing bolt in the frame mount but then you have drill a hole through the frame and bolt the rear of the mount with a through-bolt. I don't have picture of the ones I installed on my '88 535, but it worked well for the M5 bar installed. You can buy just the mounts from IE if you ask. The IE bars are the same size as the M5 bars so their mounts and bushings are interchangeable.

Rears:
This is where it gets sketchy when you look at RealOEM's diagrams.
M5 RSB Frame Mounts: Nothing is listed and the part is not even shown. Same for any of the E28's.
M5 RSB Brackets: BMW pn: 33-55-1-129-195. Again this where it gets weird and may be a mistake; they list the same part number for both the M5's 18mm bar as the standard E28 15mm bar. Maybe they are the same and bushing for both have the same outside dimension and only the inside is hollowed out more for the M5.
The IE RSB mounts and brackets work by attaching to the existing frame mounts, but as I explained earlier, these will fail; it's just a matter of time. (Of course, I installed mine wrong so this didn't help).

So to answer your specific questions:
1. No you cannot use standard E28 brackets and bushings with M5 bars; they're not big enough.
2. Yes you can use the IE mounts, brackets and bushings with your M5 bars.
3. Follow ShawnD's mod for reinforcing the RSB Frame Mounts. I was the one urging (ne begging) Moosehead to fabricate these so I could repair my '88 535.
4. FSB End Link Reinforcement: I would say yes that this is ultimately the proper method and should be done. However, you have to weigh this against the type of driving you're going to be doing. Tracking= definitely yes; moderate spirited driving= maybe or maybe not.
5. I have some photos from the IE install on the '88 but do not have anything clear on the M535s' Dinan suspension. That would take me some time before I can get the car up again and wheels off for photos. Too much to do over the next 3 weeks.

Hope this helps.

Now THAT is what I've been looking for! This is definitely sticky material. Thank you for being so clear.

[95maxrider]

Okay, sorry if I was being obtuse or not clear:
Fronts:
M5 FSB Frame Mounts: BMW pn 41-11-2-230-014 is NLA. Dinan used one of these on my M535 and welded it to the frame (as BMW M did). I could not find the standard E28 counterpart listed on RealOEM; in theory it might be same as the Bracket that locks around the bushing is what is different.
M5 FSB Brackets: BMW pn: 31-35-1-131-622 is sized to take the 25mm bar and its' larger bushing. The proper bushings have a lot of meat around them. There are some after-market bushings that reduce this meat significantly in order to use the smaller 19mm brackets. I would avoid these if you can, but if the M5 frame mount is NLA and you don't want the IE mount, then you might have to go this route (providing you also don't want to fabricate an entirely new mount from scratch).

Rears:
This is where it gets sketchy when you look at RealOEM's diagrams.
M5 RSB Frame Mounts: Nothing is listed and the part is not even shown. Same for any of the E28's.
M5 RSB Brackets: BMW pn: 33-55-1-129-195. Again this where it gets weird and may be a mistake; they list the same part number for both the M5's 18mm bar as the standard E28 15mm bar. Maybe they are the same and bushing for both have the same outside dimension and only the inside is hollowed out more for the M5.

Well I got the M5 bars that I ordered and it looks as if they came with non-M bushings and brackets:





It looks like my only option at this point is to just run the small/incorrect 25/18 bushings that will work in the non-M brackets. Unfortunately, the bushings that came with the bars are worn out, and I can't find anyone selling the 25/18 bushings for non-M brackets. Does anyone know where I can find them?

Does anyone have a good picture of what the M5 frame mounts look like? I wouldn't be opposed to making some if it meant I could use the proper bushings and brackets. The frame mounts are welded on, right? Does anyone know if the rear M5 frame mounts are different than non-M cars? Clearly the fronts are quite different to accommodate those larger bushings.

[mooseheadm5]

Fronts look like this and weld to the frame rails:


Rears are the same as the other cars.