Ceramic pads, 100K later, a review

[Mike W.]

The better part of 5 years ago now I put ceramic pads along with new rotors on the E39 touring. The old rotors were warped, pads thin and the dusting on the style 5's (everybodys favorite wheel until the first time they have to clean them wheel) was terrible. So I went with ceramics. Now 104K later I thought I should take a closer peek when rotating tires last night. The fronts look almost new, maybe 3/8" thick? The rotors have nearly no ridge on them, pretty much just a rust one in by the hat. The rears weren't quite as good, maybe only 2/3's left. And this is on the heavy wagon, not just the sedan. Loss of feel or fade? Not that I've noticed, and although it's not my everyday drive I do put some miles on it. Easy commute for the most part, but not that easy. I'm sure guys who track it could tell the difference, but not me, not on the street. IRRC pads were Akebono and rotors Beck/Arnley which means who knows. YMMV, but I'm wow'd.

[ldsbeaker]

I put Akebono pads on when I did the vacuum boost/SS lines, bigger MC, and big brakes on my e28. Three days later, I used them on RTT. (I beat the ever living crap out of them) I think they smell funny under hard use, but I could be wrong. The brake dust is very minimal. Unbelievably minimal.

I am a convert to the max. If Akebonos are available when I do a brake pad change, I will seek them out, even if it means more money.

[Coldswede]

I've had Cool Carbon pads on my e34 BBK for a few years now. They have been used on the track, driven ruthlessly on RTT, Tail of the Dragon, Blood Mountain and other drives, auto-crossed and generally used hard.

They barely fade on the track, and never on the street. They wear very little and dust is just a bad memory.


I aint goin' back to the old styles.

[wkohler]

I love brake dust.

[Cactus]

Ceramic pads don't work on a track. They can't take the heat, and they don't bite nearly as hard as a good semi-metallic pad. I didn't know you could experience fade in under a lap. Great for gentle street driving, though.

[tsmall07]

I put ceramics on my e30 and I was immediately surprised by how much harder I had to push the pedal to stop as quickly. Now, after a short distance I was used to it and it didn't seem to make a difference after that.

[Coldswede]

Ceramic pads don't work on a track. They can't take the heat, and they don't bite nearly as hard as a good semi-metallic pad. I didn't know you could experience fade in under a lap. Great for gentle street driving, though.

Oh really!

[John SCB]

I put ceramics on my e30 and I was immediately surprised by how much harder I had to push the pedal to stop as quickly.

Same here. I installed a set on my E28 and experienced the same issue. I prefer OEM Jurids. Besides, all that brake dust gives me a good reason to clean the car more often.

[OcCoupe]

I installed air brakes.

[MicahO]

I put a set of Cool Carbons on the ZHP a few years back. I was happy with them through the summer, though I did not get to run them though any driving schools or track events.

When winter came, I had problems. I've got a long highway commute without a lot of braking, and they never seemed to get very hot. In their 'cool,' winter state, I was getting a lot of pad deposit buildup. Bad buildup that led to braking shimmies, etc. If I took the time on an empty road to re-bed them, they'd be okay for a few hundred miles, and then the shimmies would start again. In Dave Zeckhausen's words, it seems like they 'pooped' on my rotors.

By the following spring, the pad deposits were basically permanent and visible. I got tired of the need to repeatedly re-bed the things, and went back to a conventional pad.

Other folks have rated them very highly. Maybe I got a bad batch? I got them when they were a fairly new product, through BavAuto, and on sale. I've never seen BavAuto put them on that sort of sale again, so I've often wondered if my apparently great deal had anything to do with my poor experience.....

[desmofan]

I put Akebono pads on when I did the vacuum boost/SS lines, bigger MC, and big brakes on my e28. Three days later, I used them on RTT. (I beat the ever living crap out of them) I think they smell funny under hard use, but I could be wrong. The brake dust is very minimal. Unbelievably minimal.

I am a convert to the max. If Akebonos are available when I do a brake pad change, I will seek them out, even if it means more money.

+1

Akebonos are all I've used on any BMW for 10 years!

[Nebraska_e28]

Ditto on the akebono. I put maybe 30k on them with my last e28, then swapped them to the turbo & have easily put another 30k on them. They've seen serious abuse & wear awesome!

[rmiddendorf]

Akebono FTW. I have them on the front of my E90 and love them. I'm only about 15k in so can really only personally vouch that they're great at stopping. I have normal Textrons on the rear and they throw a ton of dust. The only dirt on the fronts isn't from the brakes.

My service guy just got 168k out of them on his Suburban. He said they were still good but his rotors were out of spec.

[garageboy]

Funny you should mention, as I've been thinking about this for awhile.

I *suspect* I have the non-stock ceramic pads on the front of the E39. I bought it that way. I have never had a car where there was no brake dust ever on the front wheels yet plenty of brake dust on the rear wheels (still stock, I presume). I've owned the car for almost two years now. I have not had to touch the brakes yet.

I suspect I will be doing a brake job soon since my handbrake is weak. I have never felt for lacking brakes on the 530i, so it appears the ceramics work reasonably well on the street. I suspect when I do the front brakes next time, I will return to stock pads/rotors. Cuz I'm a brake pad snob too.

[RAL]

I installed ceramic pads and removed them a short time later because the pedal was rock hard and they never seemed to build up enough heat on my regular drives. There is a reason none of the German car makers use them stock. Moreover, it is a low likelihood event but on an older car if you ever had a partial hydraulic failure the pads are so hard I think it would make the car harder to stop. The stock pad varieties are messier, no doubt, but if you clean the car twice a month it's really not an issue. Cars and wheels get dirty when driven, period. Trying to potentially compromise (albeit even slightly) the engineering or safety characteristics of the car to avoid getting them dirty doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Nebraska_e28]

With akebono pads, cross-drilled rotors, e32/e34 big brakes, & conversion to a vacuum brake booster, I gurantee I can out stop just about any e28 out there. I partially tested this theory while hauling 3 additional passengers.

[a]

I just increased the parts pool by a new set of Canadian made semi- metallic pads. IAP, had 2 choices, 20$ pads , prolly Chinese, and 42 $. Rear pads

[mooseheadm5]

my old boss used to call them "achy boners".

[Justin_FL]

I put the PBR/Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads on my 530i in 2007. Not bad but never liked the pedal feel, always felt soft to me. Can't say the stopping power was different from OE when cold but with some temp in the pads they bite much better. Main issue are occasional build up on rotors causing pulsating pedal and the fit of the pads in the calipers. OE use a metal clip riveted to the pad but the Axxis ones do not so they rattle over sharp bumps (like reflectors). Plus they tend to squeak, which has been much worse lately for some reason. Once or twice a year I'll repeat something like the bed-in process with a couple hard stops from 60-70mph to 20 or so and that tends to level the buildup and lessen any squealing. Gets annoying.

Now that the rear rotors are marginal and the parking brake doesn't do well on the steep part of my driveway in front of the house, I will be doing some brake work. Might go back to OE pads all around to get a little better feel, but not sure yet. The OE Jurids (front) and Textars (rear) didn't dust that badly in the brief period I had the car before replacing them, as it needed front rotors and pads desperately. Besides, I only do 6000-6500 miles a year and the commute is easy on brakes, so cleaning the wheels isn't too bad every 2-3 weeks. Although I do not need new pads, the "achy boners" seem to be liked here, so maybe I'll look into them if they use the caliper clips like OE and don't squeal.

[Nebraska_e28]

Although I do not need new pads, the "achy boners" seem to be liked here, so maybe I'll look into them if they use the caliper clips like OE and don't squeal.

The only noise issue I've had with the boners is first thing in the morning when they are cold & I go in reverse. Quite noisy. But only in reverse for a few seconds.

[desmofan]

Although I do not need new pads, the "achy boners" seem to be liked here, so maybe I'll look into them if they use the caliper clips like OE and don't squeal.

The Akebonos I used do have clips, and they don't squeak or squeal.

[Jeremy]

I think it's important to remember that all ceramic pads are not necessarily created equal. Just like Porterfield R4S aren't the same as MetalMasters aren't the same as Hawk HP+ I'm noticing that those that like ceramics all seem to use Akebono pads, whereas those with bad experiences are generically saying "I tried ceramic pads" without listing a brand. The one exception is the person who talked about the Cool Carbon pads, but still didn't like them.

I also notice that most that do like the ceramics are using them with some degree of caliper and rotor upgrade. This might help mitigate any loss in friction potential compared to trying it with a completely stock setup.

Just my observations from the gallery.

[desmofan]

I think it's important to remember that all ceramic pads are not necessarily created equal. Just like Porterfield R4S aren't the same as MetalMasters aren't the same as Hawk HP+ I'm noticing that those that like ceramics all seem to use Akebono pads, whereas those with bad experiences are generically saying "I tried ceramic pads" without listing a brand. The one exception is the person who talked about the Cool Carbon pads, but still didn't like them.

I also notice that most that do like the ceramics are using them with some degree of caliper and rotor upgrade. This might help mitigate any loss in friction potential compared to trying it with a completely stock setup.

Just my observations from the gallery.

Excellent points!

I have a Stage 5 BBK on my E28. I don't even think Akebono makes pads for a stock E28 setup.

[Tammer in Philly]

I think it's important to remember that all ceramic pads are not necessarily created equal. Just like Porterfield R4S aren't the same as MetalMasters aren't the same as Hawk HP+ I'm noticing that those that like ceramics all seem to use Akebono pads, whereas those with bad experiences are generically saying "I tried ceramic pads" without listing a brand. The one exception is the person who talked about the Cool Carbon pads, but still didn't like them.

I also notice that most that do like the ceramics are using them with some degree of caliper and rotor upgrade. This might help mitigate any loss in friction potential compared to trying it with a completely stock setup.

Just my observations from the gallery.

I've used the Akebono Euro (E36 and E39) and Hawk Ceramic (E34). I don't love the pedal feel with any of them, and they seem roughly equivalent in terms of grip. All have been good fit, noise-free, and relatively low dust (vs stock). Still, the best braking feel I have now is on the X5, which is wearing stock Pagids.

-tammer

[vinceg101]

Nothing really to add, but it is timely as I need to do a brake service on the E39 530i. I finally got my last Brembo front rotor from Rock Auto (only took 3 times for it to get to me ). I've been holding off on the pad choice though so this thread is informative.
Like Justin, my 530 is only driven lightly on both freeway and mostly streets. One of the great things I appreciate about the E39 is the brake system; they've given the car much bigger brakes than the standard E28 (I guess they had to because it's heavier). But part of that might be due to the PO's own previous brake service where I think he switched to ceramics. I've come to this conclusion due to the total lack of brake dust on the wheels.

The only noise issue I've had with the boners is first thing in the morning when they are cold & I go in reverse. Quite noisy. But only in reverse for a few seconds.

This is other reason I believe they are ceramics: mine does the exact same thing (has since I bought the car in January). Only now it's starting to squeal and make noise out during normal driving.
I don't know about pedal feel as I've no experience with the E39 with stock pads. All I know is how much better it brakes than my '88 535i (even with a Stage V BBU).

I've used Pagid Red pads on the '88 for a few brake changes and always had good results with them. When I drop the rear end on the M535 I'll see what it has and see about using that brand as I've had good results with them and they shed off little dust also.

I'll get the wheels off the 530 next weekend and see what is on there.