Differential Equations

E28 technical advice asked and given! Troubleshooting, modifications and more.
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Ok, as is usual, after I am stumped and post a message a solution comes to me.

I have a brass block and a sledge hammer. Set the brass block on the end of the pinion and a whack with the sledge hammer and the pinion popped out.

Now I have everything disassembled. From the rusty donor, all the important matching parts:
  • Pinion
  • Pinion bearings with matching races
  • Pinion spacer washer (specific to each pinion & ring gear set)
  • Pumpkin
  • Side covers (from one of the better cases)
  • Side cover shims from the rusty donor, marked for correct sides; match the pinion/pumpkin
  • Cleaned cover
  • Good case, to be cleaned & painted (also removed races from it)
Image

Image

Now I know precisely what to order:
  • Securing plate
  • Pinion shaft seal
  • Pinon crush sleeve
  • 2x output flange seals
I won't bother ordering any side cover spacers because (a) supposedly the ones I have will 'just work' because they are matched to the pumpkin and (b) I have 2 other donor sets that are all different sizes. When I reassemble, if I discover that lash can get set correctly with these spacers, I'll order other sizes.

I'm learning a ton. I hope you, dear reader, are too.

I'm also going to ensure all the fastners on the pumpkin are torqued correctly... maybe I'll pull them and put locktite on? Should I?
Shawn D.
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 22082
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Shawn D. »

Yikes. That ain't no good!
Jelmer538i
Posts: 1222
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Jelmer538i »

If your here, also order some new LSD parts:

http://thayermotorsports.com/collections/all

And make sure you check this:

Image
Mike W.
Posts: 27179
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Mike W. »

I like this thread. Much like auto transmissions which aren't really all that difficult to work on, popular belief is that you need thousands of dollars worth of tools and diffs are impossible to set up correctly. Maybe, maybe not, I worked on a couple back in my air cooled VW days and both came out ok. Didn't put enough miles on them for a long term view, but short term at least they were fine. :up:
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Painted the case today.

Image
Image
Image
geordi
Posts: 1415
Joined: Jan 26, 2012 12:17 AM
Location: WYOKA

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by geordi »

I am digging this thread. Nice work & thanks CEK :up:
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

geordi wrote:I am digging this thread. Nice work & thanks CEK :up:
Me too! Thanks.

Spent some time in-between tearing apart the parts car on prep. Cleaned up bare metal and the races are ready to be put in the freezer tonight.

Image

I can't really do anything more but put the races in until the new seals arrive from Blunt sometime this week...
Jelmer538i
Posts: 1222
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Jelmer538i »

Are you going to rebuild the limited slip part to? That's really easy now.
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Jelmer538i wrote:Are you going to rebuild the limited slip part to? That's really easy now.
Nah, I really don't think it needs it. I could be wrong.
Jelmer538i
Posts: 1222
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Jelmer538i »

http://thayermotorsports.com/products/b ... efresh-kit
For this kind of money I would refresh it...
tn535i
Posts: 5590
Joined: Jul 14, 2006 1:30 PM
Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tn535i »

Those LSD discs at Thayer were very expensive. If the condition looks good I would re-use them.
Jelmer538i
Posts: 1222
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Jelmer538i »

$214,99 is not expensive for 2 clutches, 2 dog rings and a bolt set.

I payed $190,- for my 210 diff refresh kit in the UK.
wkohler
Posts: 50924
Joined: Oct 05, 2006 11:04 PM
Location: Phönix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by wkohler »

Hell, I'd add the third clutch. 40% lockup.
Coldswede
Posts: 6859
Joined: Oct 10, 2008 1:48 PM
Location: Back U.P. North,. Where the water's blue, the wind is free and seasons four.

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Coldswede »

40% lockup would be fantastic on the Autocross course! It is on my To-Do list.
foolish
Posts: 432
Joined: Apr 08, 2010 2:21 PM
Location: Western Mass

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by foolish »

I'm no diff expert by any measure but after discussing a similar rebuild with Wanganstyle (one of the resident diff experts on R3V) he suggested a stock 2 clutch rebuild for a daily driver as opposed to a dedicated auto x or track car. He has provided a lot of info on diff rebuilding and is worth speaking with.
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

I got my seals and crush bushings from Blunt and got going today. Stymied:

Image

I was able to get the pinon nut off by using a pry bar thorough a hole in the flange, wedged against the case, using the impact hammer.

However, the diameter of the flange holes are such that not even the hardest-steel drift I have is strong enough to withstand the torque required to crush the crush bushing.

I'm now in search of someone who has the special BMW tool designed for this. I have not been able to find any pictures of it, nor a part #. It is apparently called the "Final drive work fixture" but searching for that gave me no love anywhere. I'm going to try to reach out to Wanganstyle on r3v....

Anyone else got ideas?
bk_856er
Posts: 111
Joined: Dec 08, 2012 7:30 PM

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by bk_856er »

Sounds like you need a simple fixture to hold the pinion flange and prevent it from turning.

I rebuilt the differential in another vehicle a while back. The 4x4 guys have lots of experience with differentials and some have developed good hacks that you might be able to take inspiration from. Peruse gearinstalls.com or similar for ideas - check out the "tools needed" link on that particular site and scroll down for an example of a simple homemade fixture. Zuk is a differential jedi master.

BK
bk_856er
Posts: 111
Joined: Dec 08, 2012 7:30 PM

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by bk_856er »

From the book. Factory holder is 230020, used in conjunction with a diff bench stand. I'd use some angle iron...

Image
Mike W.
Posts: 27179
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Mike W. »

cek wrote:I got my seals and crush bushings from Blunt and got going today. Stymied:

Image

I was able to get the pinon nut off by using a pry bar thorough a hole in the flange, wedged against the case, using the impact hammer.

However, the diameter of the flange holes are such that not even the hardest-steel drift I have is strong enough to withstand the torque required to crush the crush bushing.

I'm now in search of someone who has the special BMW tool designed for this. I have not been able to find any pictures of it, nor a part #. It is apparently called the "Final drive work fixture" but searching for that gave me no love anywhere. I'm going to try to reach out to Wanganstyle on r3v....

Anyone else got ideas?
Not a problem. I made one for a challenge something like this, the front hub nut and seal on a M52. You need a piece of flatbar, say 3/16"X2" a couple of feet long. Or 1/8"X4" You've got options. Simply drill for the driveshaft holes, bolt it up tight, attach something as long or longer than your big cheater you're going to be using and away you go. Thick enough and you can use 2 holes, a little thinner and use 3 or 4 with a cutout. This is the easy part, don't let it slow you down. :D
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Mike W. wrote: Not a problem. I made one for a challenge something like this, the front hub nut and seal on a M52. You need a piece of flatbar, say 3/16"X2" a couple of feet long. Or 1/8"X4" You've got options. Simply drill for the driveshaft holes, bolt it up tight, attach something as long or longer than your big cheater you're going to be using and away you go. Thick enough and you can use 2 holes, a little thinner and use 3 or 4 with a cutout. This is the easy part, don't let it slow you down. :D
Thanks Mike. I don't think I could be going any slower. Good thing I don't need to be doing this.
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Duh.

Why didn't I think of this before?

Image

Nailed it the first time too. I had bought a 2nd crush bushing just in case, but I was just super careful getting to 25in/lbs.

Image

Checked the torque on all the fasteners and marked them (made me feel like a pro).

Image

I do believe that is just about right. Whew. Turns out that the spacers DO go with the case, just as others have indicated. I thought I might have had them reversed too, even though I labeled them right/left...I couldn't remember if I had done left/right looking forward or left/right looking back! (It was forward).

Image

Off to a dinner party... will check it again, and then finish putting it all back together!!!!
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

Done!

That was kinda fun. I'd do it again.

Image
Mike W.
Posts: 27179
Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Location: California Whine Country

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by Mike W. »

cek wrote:Done!

That was kinda fun. I'd do it again.

Image
Wow, looks good! Granted what's important is inside, but it almost looks too good to hide underneath. :laugh:
wkohler
Posts: 50924
Joined: Oct 05, 2006 11:04 PM
Location: Phönix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by wkohler »

Why did you paint the drive flanges?
tig
Beamter
Beamter
Posts: 9233
Joined: Mar 18, 2013 6:25 PM
Location: Durango
Contact:

Re: Dfferential Equations

Post by tig »

wkohler wrote:Why did you paint the drive flanges?
Because I figured they will rust otherwise. I plan on wire-wheeling off the faces; I meant to mask them but forgot.
Post Reply