E12 M535i Project - 08-21-19 Update
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-16-15
Love the progress - last night walking around I had "SELL IT ALL AND SIMPLIFY YOUR LIFE!" running through my head.
This morning after reading your thread I find myself wondering which car should be a candidate for a complete makeover, or is it already time for another project?
The drama with getting parts for these cars....Utterly frustrating....
Anyway - Fabulous work - can't wait to see more!
This morning after reading your thread I find myself wondering which car should be a candidate for a complete makeover, or is it already time for another project?
The drama with getting parts for these cars....Utterly frustrating....
Anyway - Fabulous work - can't wait to see more!
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
I paid Mike the remainder today. I tried to get it from the bank in $1 bills, but they didn't have enough of them. Probably good since when I told Mike, he gave me quite a look.
Everyone seemed to get there at the same time. Tow truck, Snap-On guy, Air compressor guy, me, parts deliveries for the other shops, so it wasn't really a smooth morning. Got the car loaded.
Then he tells me the tow will be $200. WTF? Oh, more labor, extra strap, etc. Great. Well, as long as it gets there safely. Oh, it will.
He showed up and I couldn't really take any photos of unloading the car since I had to help and he didn't appreciate my $100 labor fee, so I still had to pay the $200. I guess it's not terrible since the guy we used for the B7 charged me $146 which was still ridiculous, but Mike's shop isn't exactly close. This guy did remark that the dollies were very well made compared to what he usually has to deal with.
And back in my garage...
Everyone seemed to get there at the same time. Tow truck, Snap-On guy, Air compressor guy, me, parts deliveries for the other shops, so it wasn't really a smooth morning. Got the car loaded.
Then he tells me the tow will be $200. WTF? Oh, more labor, extra strap, etc. Great. Well, as long as it gets there safely. Oh, it will.
He showed up and I couldn't really take any photos of unloading the car since I had to help and he didn't appreciate my $100 labor fee, so I still had to pay the $200. I guess it's not terrible since the guy we used for the B7 charged me $146 which was still ridiculous, but Mike's shop isn't exactly close. This guy did remark that the dollies were very well made compared to what he usually has to deal with.
And back in my garage...
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
I want to make some dollies like that. Now that you've used them do you have any suggestions on design, or would you recommend I just copy what you & Mike did? For example, looks like the rear wheels don't swivel; would it be better if they did?
Congrats on the homecoming. If it were me, I'd pull up a lawn chair and just stare at it for hours. It really does look great.
Congrats on the homecoming. If it were me, I'd pull up a lawn chair and just stare at it for hours. It really does look great.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Looks awesome.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
How's this for stupid? Just picked up the right fender. Glad it is in a big ass box since that's where it will be staying I guess.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
You knew that was going to happen.wkohler wrote:How's this for stupid? Just picked up the right fender. Glad it is in a big ass box since that's where it will be staying I guess.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
The car looks very nice, Chris.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
The attention to detail is amazing. If people start taking restorations for older bmws as serious as they do for Ferraris, you would have the market cornered.
I saw it mentioned somewhere in the thread but what are the plans for the engine?
I saw it mentioned somewhere in the thread but what are the plans for the engine?
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Congrats Chris! I'm jealous that you have it to stare at in your garage this weekend because mine isn't coming home until next week sometime. Amazing that our body and paintwork phases concluded so close to each other.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Unfortunately most BMWs really aren't special enough to be worth the costs a full restoration requires. The tuner cars and M car market definitely seems to have forked off from the regular series cars, so those look like a better place to go. Given the current market bubble and appreciation these past couple years, if you bought the car right you might do OK with the rarer cars. The M5 I bought 10 years ago was bought as a project to restore, but until recently the values were so low it made much more sense buying a better car and parting mine out. Am I going to restore the car now? Probably not as I already have too many E28s with unmet needs to start another onemitch5 wrote:If people start taking restorations for older bmws as serious as they do for Ferraris, you would have the market cornered.
Regardless of a car's value, it is always nice seeing someone do things the right way and sweating the small details like Chris. And kudos to you too, Adam for doing right by your M535i. Unless you are in the business of selling your restored cars, it's all a hobby to be enjoyed. Although a full teardown and restoration is really quite a PITA and maybe not so fun at times.
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Very nice work Chris - this one will be spectacular !
David Frankel
David Frankel
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
GaAlpinaOwner wrote:Very nice work Chris - this one will be spectacular !
David Frankel
They all are spectacular, and there're real
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Great progress Chris, looks terrific to this point... another spectacular result is sure to come knowing you... quite the addiction isn't it?
-RoyW
-RoyW
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
It looks exceptional Chris!
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
this thing is gonna be a brand new car soon, awesome work so far. keep it up
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-19-15 - Home!
Thanks everyone. There's just so much to do and I really don't have anything ready to go. I was afraid to spend any considerable money before I got the final bill for the body and as a result I'm behind the 8-ball and dealing with BMW trying to get things I need. I made a couple of mistakes going aftermarket on things like rear wheel bearings (I bought FAGs, but the German-made bearings came in another supplier's box made in Taiwan with grease seals that would never fit with an o-ring and a cotter pin - for the rear), so I had to reorder them from the dealer and I know that BMW is just laughing at me right now. I'm having all of my brake and fuel hard lines remade at a tube and hose shop in town. That was an exercise in frustration. I'm making arrangements to get my calipers rebuilt and I acquired a remanufactured brake booster which has likely sat in a box since the late 1980s. I have to argue with people to get what I can only describe as an adequate job. Fortunately the powder-coater hasn't been giving me problems about redoing so much stuff. I'm sure everyone would like to see photos of something, but I don't have any to share.
I really do not see how it's possible to do a proper job on a car like this (E12, E28, or really any BMW) and realize a profit if you went to sell it. I'm putting this car together because I really wanted an M535i, I found one when you really never saw one for sale and despite being a basket case, it really became a pretty good car the deeper into it we dug, which isn't usually the case. Areas I was really concerned about really weren't an issue and we only ran into one surprise on the body but it wasn't actually a surprise. I had forgotten about it in the time since I had first discovered it. Who knows what the car would be worth when it's all said and done and I can't say I really care too much. There is naturally a concern for that when you're putting this much money into a project that I'm sure I could use to improve my house or put aside for the future, though I often find myself looking at the car and thinking it's all a big waste of money and time. Maybe once I have some parts to put on the car, that will change.
The design of these dollies is pretty nice. I got lots of dumb looks when I discussed the idea of putting the car on these and once they realized how they worked and how sturdy they were, I didn't get as much push-back. Saying they were leaps and bounds better than the jack stands on wheels would be an insult to the dollies.
All four casters on my set swivel. I realized I must have installed one of the dollies backwards since the locking casters ended up on opposing corners, but it doesn't really matter. It's pretty easy to move the car, but you have to be careful as it definitely likes to drift in a direction I'd rather not have it go.
The only way I'd improve upon it would be to have a bar that goes between the two for transporting it. I'd want it removable but it would allow the dollies to be strapped down on all four corners keeping everything square without pulling them away from each other. Of course, it's not anything that requires re-engineering of the dollies. These are also nice because you can put a floor jack right under them and lift the car. Works well.
Yeah, that's a good point for sure. I'm not even sure how special the M535i is in the grand scheme of things. BMW hasn't been really excited to acknowledge the model's existence. I know we were all pretty surprised BMW actually made a YouTube video about the car, but they really only seem to suggest it's the prelude to the M5 and all you really ever hear from people is that they'd rather have the M5 when the money meets the road. In a book about BMW Motorsport's history, it was given one sentence in the beginning of the section about the M5. Unlike some who wish to keep the cars affordable, I'd love to see the continued interest in them and the people out there that truly work to make the available cars better.Justin_FL wrote:Unfortunately most BMWs really aren't special enough to be worth the costs a full restoration requires. The tuner cars and M car market definitely seems to have forked off from the regular series cars, so those look like a better place to go. Given the current market bubble and appreciation these past couple years, if you bought the car right you might do OK with the rarer cars. The M5 I bought 10 years ago was bought as a project to restore, but until recently the values were so low it made much more sense buying a better car and parting mine out. Am I going to restore the car now? Probably not as I already have too many E28s with unmet needs to start another onemitch5 wrote:If people start taking restorations for older bmws as serious as they do for Ferraris, you would have the market cornered.
Regardless of a car's value, it is always nice seeing someone do things the right way and sweating the small details like Chris. And kudos to you too, Adam for doing right by your M535i. Unless you are in the business of selling your restored cars, it's all a hobby to be enjoyed. Although a full teardown and restoration is really quite a PITA and maybe not so fun at times.
I really do not see how it's possible to do a proper job on a car like this (E12, E28, or really any BMW) and realize a profit if you went to sell it. I'm putting this car together because I really wanted an M535i, I found one when you really never saw one for sale and despite being a basket case, it really became a pretty good car the deeper into it we dug, which isn't usually the case. Areas I was really concerned about really weren't an issue and we only ran into one surprise on the body but it wasn't actually a surprise. I had forgotten about it in the time since I had first discovered it. Who knows what the car would be worth when it's all said and done and I can't say I really care too much. There is naturally a concern for that when you're putting this much money into a project that I'm sure I could use to improve my house or put aside for the future, though I often find myself looking at the car and thinking it's all a big waste of money and time. Maybe once I have some parts to put on the car, that will change.
cek wrote:I want to make some dollies like that. Now that you've used them do you have any suggestions on design, or would you recommend I just copy what you & Mike did? For example, looks like the rear wheels don't swivel; would it be better if they did?
Congrats on the homecoming. If it were me, I'd pull up a lawn chair and just stare at it for hours. It really does look great.
The design of these dollies is pretty nice. I got lots of dumb looks when I discussed the idea of putting the car on these and once they realized how they worked and how sturdy they were, I didn't get as much push-back. Saying they were leaps and bounds better than the jack stands on wheels would be an insult to the dollies.
All four casters on my set swivel. I realized I must have installed one of the dollies backwards since the locking casters ended up on opposing corners, but it doesn't really matter. It's pretty easy to move the car, but you have to be careful as it definitely likes to drift in a direction I'd rather not have it go.
The only way I'd improve upon it would be to have a bar that goes between the two for transporting it. I'd want it removable but it would allow the dollies to be strapped down on all four corners keeping everything square without pulling them away from each other. Of course, it's not anything that requires re-engineering of the dollies. These are also nice because you can put a floor jack right under them and lift the car. Works well.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
I guess enough stuff has happened to where I could make an update.
Parts have been coming in from BMW. Most everything I order is in Germany, but nothing in the last couple batches is Euro-specific. Not everything I've ordered has been available and some things are somewhat surprising, but I have to keep reminding myself that no one likes E12s.
I decided to work on getting certain things I know need doing sorted. I had been trying to find a brake booster for a long time and I had posted recently about reman boosters. I ended up going to a local brake and clutch supply house and they had a supplier which had a reman booster available on an exchange basis. $250 plus $100 core and tax. They will be getting my original booster back and I did try to clean it up some.
It looks like an old rebuild and that's fine. I have a 1-year warranty, so once the car is up and running, likely no warranty. Oh well. It looks like it works.
I got all of the rust off of these:
I think I'm going to throw them in with the latches and other crap and get them plated so they will stay somewhat nice.
Today, Scott (scarey013) came over and watched me get really upset while we installed this absolutely ridiculous contraption designed by a sadist. I thought the bar on the early cars was stupid. This takes it to a whole new level, but at least the hood stays up.
After he left, I had several work-related things to do, so I got back to it a couple hours later and got my Motorsport radius-rod bushings pressed in.
Then, I decided to work on the trailing arms. I bought two sets of Lemförder trailing arm bushings. I decided to have a look at the instructions.
After I put some clothes and a hat on and holding my 32mm/36mm combination wrench, I tried to get them in, but only having one hand was difficult. So, I put the wrench down and grabbed a 32mm socket.
Always lubricate before insertion.
I mentioned before that I had ordered some FAGs and they came in some other Taiwanese manufacturer's box with the wrong size grease seals, no locking ring and a cotter pin with an o-ring. I sent them back and ordered the bearings from BMW. RealOEM showed that I'd be getting two bearings, grease-seals for front and rear and the lock ring. I received two double-sealed SKF bearings and two different lock rings. Interesting. I had considered reusing the old grease seals to just have something in there, but it probably didn't matter. Of course, I kinda felt that instead of paying the $65 for the BMW parts, I could have just ordered my own double-sealed bearings, but I'm sure whatever I bought wouldn't have been factory tested and approved.
I'm sure they'd also cause one helluva fire.
So, the key here is to install the outer bearing first.
Then, the inner bearing, which I didn't take any photos of. I assure you it's in there. There's a conical spacer and a shim as well. Fortunately the outer races of the bearings were the same width as the old ones, so I didn't have to calculate to a tenth of a milimeter a new shim size and then have some guy laugh at me in Germany that I needed one only to tell me the size I need is NLA. The conical spacer is conical because it sits between the inner races of the bearings to keep them from moving inward when the drive flange and stub axle assembly are torqued.
So, until crap comes back from the plater and more parts arrive, I'm not sure what to do. I'm in desperate need of the insulation that goes under the carpet at the very front of the car, so, if anyone has any just laying around...
Parts have been coming in from BMW. Most everything I order is in Germany, but nothing in the last couple batches is Euro-specific. Not everything I've ordered has been available and some things are somewhat surprising, but I have to keep reminding myself that no one likes E12s.
I decided to work on getting certain things I know need doing sorted. I had been trying to find a brake booster for a long time and I had posted recently about reman boosters. I ended up going to a local brake and clutch supply house and they had a supplier which had a reman booster available on an exchange basis. $250 plus $100 core and tax. They will be getting my original booster back and I did try to clean it up some.
It looks like an old rebuild and that's fine. I have a 1-year warranty, so once the car is up and running, likely no warranty. Oh well. It looks like it works.
I got all of the rust off of these:
I think I'm going to throw them in with the latches and other crap and get them plated so they will stay somewhat nice.
Today, Scott (scarey013) came over and watched me get really upset while we installed this absolutely ridiculous contraption designed by a sadist. I thought the bar on the early cars was stupid. This takes it to a whole new level, but at least the hood stays up.
After he left, I had several work-related things to do, so I got back to it a couple hours later and got my Motorsport radius-rod bushings pressed in.
Then, I decided to work on the trailing arms. I bought two sets of Lemförder trailing arm bushings. I decided to have a look at the instructions.
After I put some clothes and a hat on and holding my 32mm/36mm combination wrench, I tried to get them in, but only having one hand was difficult. So, I put the wrench down and grabbed a 32mm socket.
Always lubricate before insertion.
I mentioned before that I had ordered some FAGs and they came in some other Taiwanese manufacturer's box with the wrong size grease seals, no locking ring and a cotter pin with an o-ring. I sent them back and ordered the bearings from BMW. RealOEM showed that I'd be getting two bearings, grease-seals for front and rear and the lock ring. I received two double-sealed SKF bearings and two different lock rings. Interesting. I had considered reusing the old grease seals to just have something in there, but it probably didn't matter. Of course, I kinda felt that instead of paying the $65 for the BMW parts, I could have just ordered my own double-sealed bearings, but I'm sure whatever I bought wouldn't have been factory tested and approved.
I'm sure they'd also cause one helluva fire.
So, the key here is to install the outer bearing first.
Then, the inner bearing, which I didn't take any photos of. I assure you it's in there. There's a conical spacer and a shim as well. Fortunately the outer races of the bearings were the same width as the old ones, so I didn't have to calculate to a tenth of a milimeter a new shim size and then have some guy laugh at me in Germany that I needed one only to tell me the size I need is NLA. The conical spacer is conical because it sits between the inner races of the bearings to keep them from moving inward when the drive flange and stub axle assembly are torqued.
So, until crap comes back from the plater and more parts arrive, I'm not sure what to do. I'm in desperate need of the insulation that goes under the carpet at the very front of the car, so, if anyone has any just laying around...
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
What is the difference between the motorsport radius arm bushings and the "normal" ones?
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
The "motorsport" ones are stiffer and are sold individually. They cost twice as much as the repair set for the standard bushings. All I know is that this car is supposed to have them and I was pretty worried putting them in as they don't like to go in straight.
That's what she said.
That's what she said.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
Good to know.wkohler wrote:The "motorsport" ones are stiffer and are sold individually. They cost twice as much as the repair set for the standard bushings. All I know is that this car is supposed to have them and I was pretty worried putting them in as they don't like to go in straight.
That's what she said.
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
I wish I had your progress on the axles and bearings! I'm dreading beating the stuck axle some more with a hammer on mine.
If you learn of a good source or substitute for carpet padding, please send me a message.
If you learn of a good source or substitute for carpet padding, please send me a message.
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
This whole thread is very impressive... I hope I get to see the car in person one day. congrats on the progress!
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
Is the carpet padding for an e12 the same as an e28? When I replaced the carpeting in my car, the new carpet came with padding molded onto the back while the old carpet that came out had separate padding pieces. I think I still have most of the pieces around here but don't recall their condition - after all, they're used.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
Given that the floor pans of '80-'81 build E12s are nearly the same as E28s, I don't see a reason why the E28 carpet padding wouldn't fit I had a couple of pieces of it from an E28 I got with a carpet and I threw them in the car to see how they fit and were moulded for the rear heating ducts and they fit perfectly. In fact they're still in there as they have developed a bit of a set from storage and I figured it's a fine place to keep them for now. I think any real differences in the firewall on E12s would be above the top of the carpet anyway and that's not to say absolute perfection is necessary. I just need the same density and what not as what belongs in the car to ensure that everything fits properly. I'd be very interested in the front piece for the firewall, if you are willing to let it go, but with your proximity to Adam, perhaps it would be more proper to send it his way, especially as it seems he is in need too.
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
I'll take a look to see what I have for padding.
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
I love what you are doing here. So much.
But after over a year lurking on this forum and never posting I have to know wkohler, what is the chick in your avatar holding?
Is it a surfboard? A gun case? A dead shark? I need to know.
But after over a year lurking on this forum and never posting I have to know wkohler, what is the chick in your avatar holding?
Is it a surfboard? A gun case? A dead shark? I need to know.
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
It's from Automobile magazine back in 1987. The M5 was the cover photo with a request to kiss the dog to see what happens -- see here:brendonoid wrote:I love what you are doing here. So much.
But after over a year lurking on this forum and never posting I have to know wkohler, what is the chick in your avatar holding?
Is it a surfboard? A gun case? A dead shark? I need to know.
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=543760
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Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
Nice articles! Cheers.CSBM5 wrote: It's from Automobile magazine back in 1987. The M5 was the cover photo with a request to kiss the dog to see what happens -- see here:
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=543760
Re: E12 M535i Project - 06-27-15 Update
"I only deal with people who have no interest in dealing with me." - Chris Kohler, 3-14-15