And so it starts, Maeve

[gwb72tii]

I bought a Zinno/pearl beige 535is in Mesa, AZ. Zinno with a tan interior (no offense cek) is a combo I’ve been looking for for about 6 months or so to restore into a daily driver. I think maybe wkohler knows this car, it lived in AZ for a long time and has over 300k miles of use.
From what I can tell the paint is original, all the body panels are original, and for the most part it’s pretty straight.
My wife and I flew to Phoenix and then Uber’d it to Mesa to pick up the car and start the 3 day drive north to Gig Harbor, about an hour south of Seattle. We fought a failing fuel pump all the way. We’d be cruising at 70 and the car would just die. Pretty exciting the first few times, but then I came to expect it. If I gave the car too much gas, it would eventually starve the motor and then the car would buck and cough until the pump caught up with the motors demand for gas.
As with most cars from AZ, there’s no rust, but all the various rubber/plastic bits are dried out for the most part. I’m going to pretty much tear the car apart, have it painted, and then put it back together. I’ve got a new higher performance motor on order, and I’ve started acquiring various bits and pieces I know I’ll need.
I can pretty much disassemble and put back together a 2002 blindfolded as I’ve owned a few pretty much continuously since I married Cindy in 1978. But an e28 is a new car to me with much newer tech than a 2002. I hope you all don’t mind me asking lots of questions. I recently ran across cek’s Zinno build. What a gorgeous car. My Zinno is going to be a DD and will see all Mother Nature has to throw every day. If the end result of my build looks anything like cek’s I’ll be plenty happy. In the meantime there’s lots to do.

[gwb72tii]

Here’s a few pics

[Foonfer]

There are some of us here who loooove Pearl Beige interiors, we are THAT sick. And by golly, MANUAL sport seats!

I'm hitting the "subscribe" button real hard now. Best of luck! Any teasers on what the new motor is?

[Mike W.]

Looks sweet, my complements. But it looks familiar, by any chance did you buy that from Kim? Or are there just that many euroized zinno E28s in Phoenix?

[wkohler]

Kim’s car is still with him in Tuscon and it was originally bronzit, though he has the motor the OP wants.

A friend and member here used to own this. He got it through his mechanic. I used to see it around on these horrendous 19” wheels. Front seats were destroyed so he put a set of E30 convertible seats in from his old convertible. He had some Euro light parts so he came over and we put a complete set together for the car. Around 310k miles it got a 140k mile motor from his old car (which I have in my backyard now for parts). Cluster in the car came from that one. I looked at buying the car from him when he was ready to sell since a friend was looking but it was too rough for him. Driver door is a different red but the vin matches so not sure what happened there. Next owner didn’t know how to use a buffer and murdered the paint on the edges and tried to flip the car without doing much else. Then the next guy sorta did the bumpers and stupidly traded the E34 staggered style 5s and somehow added cash for some egg shaped cast m-systems.

Excited to see it get saved. Should be a fun project. I would have felt bad parting it out back when I had the chance.

Good news is that if you want to keep the pearl beige it should be relatively painless to find some really nice pieces especially in your neck of the woods.

I know my way around E28s and find the 2002s difficult so I guess it’s just what you’re used to. These cars are logically thought out and generally easy to work on. I’m sure the knowledge base here will be happy to help. I’d recommend searching first then asking specific questions if you need help.

[gwb72tii]

There are some of us here who loooove Pearl Beige interiors, we are THAT sick. And by golly, MANUAL sport seats!

I'm hitting the "subscribe" button real hard now. Best of luck! Any teasers on what the new motor is?

After a couple of long conversations with Jim Rowe of Metric Mechanic, I decided to buy their 3700 rally motor. I originally had thought of building the motor myself as I’ve done a few 2002 motors, but decided to get the completed motor. Jim knows his stuff and will talk your ear off. If the motor is anywhere close to what he says (285 hp) the car should be fun to drive.
I know I’m going to run into a number of undiscovered issues in addition to the front euro bumper being crooked and the rear apron need help.

If you look at the pic where there is a big coffee stain on the floor mat, that happened coming out of Eugene. I had a grande cup of hot coffee sitting near the handbrake and decided to try to get ahead of a semi as I entered I5 going north, with two cars behind me. The motor died, I had to brake hard and bail right and my coffee flew off and doused my right foot. Mind you it was 30* outside, the heater is not working, lots of air entering the car because of shrunk up rubber, and my wife and I were freezing.
We stopped in Salem to get a new coffee and hot tea, and luckily it was in a Fred Meyer store. We walked out later with about $200 worth of winter clothes with our coffee and tea, and got bundled up for the rest of the trip. I looked like the Pillsberry doughboy in my new vest and coat.

[Adam W in MN]

Sounds like quite the adventure with the fuel pump issues and no heat!

[Tiit]

Good story.
I have the same coffee stain on the carpet. Didn’t people drink anything while driving back in 80s? I’ve been working on some e28 cup holder solution, but haven’t finished yet.
Curious to see how the 3700 m30 work out.

[wkohler]

Your wife sounds like a great sport haha.

[stuartinmn]

Check in the tech FAQ section for the post about the heater control valve - it may well be the reason for no heat, it's a pretty common thing.

[Mdreamer]

Congratulations!

I've subscribed because I'm a zinno/llama owner and I'm in the midst of a revival as well. I'm looking forward to seeing how your car progresses.

By the way, please give my kindest regards to your wife. Mine used to be down to ride like that before she became a mother and got soft!

[gwb72tii]

Your wife sounds like a great sport haha.

funny, she says I asked her to come along and share the driving and to keep me awake, I recall her volunteering to share in the adventure. I am still paying for a failing fuel pump...

[gwb72tii]

In my desire to repaint the 535is (i need a name for the car) I've found out how expensive it is to paint a car. I'm hoping that part of the reason is the various body shops I've talked to haven't actually seen the car. When we finally arrived home, I took the fuel pump out of the tank thinking there would be rust or dirt clogging the fuel pickup screen (it was clear). As such I've been unable to drive the car to the various shops. So I've just ordered the TRE in tank fuel pump and ethanol proof fuel line so I can again drive the car and hopefully get a better bid for repainting.

I am following cek in his blog on Vlad:
https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7 ... p#p1371101

[gwb72tii]

Good story.
I have the same coffee stain on the carpet. Didn’t people drink anything while driving back in 80s? I’ve been working on some e28 cup holder solution, but haven’t finished yet.
Curious to see how the 3700 m30 work out.

Me too. The performance should be equal or better than the ‘88 M5 (sorry M5 gang, no disrespect intended).
So far I’m starting to realize my budget is too low

[gwb72tii]

Santa came a few days early with an new in-tank pump and ethanol resistant fuel line.
My next task is to install the new pump and lines so I can drive the car again.
I’ve been talking with body shops about painting the car but can’t rally get an accurate quote without having the car in front of them.
And for crying out loud, who new painting a car is so expensive? $11k is the cheapest anyone has dared to mention so far.

[wkohler]

Lots of work goes into painting a car. I know you know that but everything has gone up.

Also that fuel line is not Ethanol safe. You need the J30R9 spec. It will work for now, but you’ll be replacing it in a few months. :/

[gwb72tii]

Thanks for the heads up! I’ll be calling Belmetric in the morning as it’s listed on their website as ethanol safe.
Edit, Fennor the manufacturer lists the hose as SAE J30R7 compliant which is safe for ethanol.

But here’s a question, J30R7 is rated to 50 psi while R9 is rated to 100 psi. Am I good to go with R7?

Edit #2. Going to get the J30R9 fuel hose. Normal fuel pressure is close enough to 50psi that I should go go with the higher rated fuel line.

I am facing a steep learning curve

[Blue Shadow]

The M30 FPR is a 3.0 bar unit and running a 50psi hose on a 45psi supply is just asking for replacement in a couple months as Chris said.

Just ask questions before you type in your credit card number. The answers are here on MyE28.

Your Edit #2 should work.

Of course, you can probably use that lower pressure hose for areas that are not at full FPR pressure without too much trouble.

[Mdreamer]

I’ve been talking with body shops about painting the car but can’t rally get an accurate quote without having the car in front of them.
And for crying out loud, who new painting a car is so expensive? $11k is the cheapest anyone has dared to mention so far.

I've been seeking out shops to paint my car too, and I share your sentiments. I have experienced everything from a shop looking my car over with great detail and ghosting me after the fact, to being told while I'm sitting in a waiting room that there is no interest in painting "that old thing." It has been pretty painstaking, but I think I've finally landed on a shop and they've basically told me that they don't know how much it will cost until "after they get in there." With that in mind (and after scouring through a lot of the paint/restoration threads on the forum that detail the level of work that is often discovered when going down this path), I took it upon myself to (ahem) double my budget.

[wkohler]

If those are BelMetric part numbers RHM8 and RHM12, they have working pressure of 150 psi. Problem is that they're J30R7 spec and that is not ethanol-friendly. I have had significant failures recently with the hose (both Cohline and CRP with the same spec as well as a $50 factory formed piece of hose for the M88 CSV). 8x13 fuel hose is virtually impossible to find these days and I spent considerable time studying their options and nearly pulled the trigger, but the per-foot pricing is what stopped me initially, then it was learning about the specifications. Now, finding 5/16" J30R9 spec hose is the challenge with supply chain issues.

One thing I found interesting about the failures is that I expected the supply lines to be the more severe failure and it has actually been the return hose on every car. Don't know why that is.

Also, one other thing you're going to need if you're omitting the factory fuel pump is an adapter to go from the 8mm to the 12mm hose under the car. Factory pump has 12mm inlet and 8mm outlet. Without the pump there, you need to figure that out. There are several ways to do it and these days there are several options for a fuel-safe 5/16" to 1/2" barbed adapter without having to buy three pieces to make your own.

[garageboy]

Congrats on your new E28. While you will see the pedigree of your 02s in the E28, you will be impressed by the evolution as you refurbish various components. Also, the last year of the E28 (manufactured in 1987) is the absolute best year of the model.

Enough of this "oh, everything has gone up" crap. Such whiners.

Here is the truth. Since I was a wee lad, it's expensive to paint a car. To do it right, it's always going to be expensive. The "paint the car" part is the easy part. I have a friend who went through all the BMW manufacturer painting instruction over 30 years. Of course they learned about the evolution of BMW's brilliance in applying paint to a car, culminating in the BMW Paint System (the globally-environmentally-award-winning process) that is water-based and bulletproof. But none of that is possible without the initial assembly, rustrproofing, and dipping in zinc.

The time AND cost is in the preparation. It doesn't matter how well you paint a car if it isn't prep'd properly. And to really do it correctly, it takes hours of meticulous hand-eye work to mimic what happened when the car came out of the factory, to ensure the best quality paint job. And, of course, the post-painting part of the process is equally time-consuming.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRUE. And it always will be. You get what you pay for.

The other truth is a less happy one. If you discover your E28 has rust, you will eventually be forced to accept that in addition to the rust you can see, there is more rust you cannot see. So unless it is a special car that will fetch more than US$100,000, chasing after rust is a fool's errand. Good luck with the restoration!

[gwb72tii]

Progress at last. I mentioned before that I had removed my oem in-tank fuel pump after the drivability issues driving from Mesa, AZ to our home near Seattle. I had thought it may have been clogged with debris or dirt that caused it to buck and then kill the motor. After reading up on this board about in tank fuel pumps I decided to replace mine.

I am going to have the 535is (I need a name for it) repainted Zinnoberrot, its original color, and realized I need to drive the car to various body shops for quotes. So I needed to fix the fuel pump issue so I can drive the car.

I read everything I could find on the fuel pump replacement. Buying the pump was easy, and it comes with a section of fuel hose that allows you to adapt the 12mm fuel output hose to 8mm. The issue that came up that I haven't read about is the metal ring at the top of the pump output nipple.


Here is a pic of the metal ring as it mates to the output tube. Because the pump nipple doesn't fit inside the output tube, it limits the height adjustability of the pump. Luckily to looks like it may be the correct height. I'll know tomorrow when I install the pump if I need to double the rubber gasket in between all this and the gas tank.

EDIT the interference was a result of the output tube being out of round. I removed the pump and found an old bold to gently tap into the end of the tube and viola! Fits like the new pump was supposed to be OEM. I can now adjust the height of the pump.


Now I have issues as many do with Amazon and and their business practices with realtion to small businesses. But damn if they aren't good at what they do. I ordered this last night at 5pm and it came today. HT to cek for his post on Oetiker hose clamps.


Here is the completed assembly. I added a piece of fuel hose around the return tube to zip tie the pump to to eliminate any noise.


And then I tested for continuity. I have a complete circuit!


So now off to install tomorrow and then to the body shops next week. I am going to be shocked at the prices no doubt but I hope perhaps the entire car doesn't need to be painted.

I have reservations about my build of the pump assembly and anticipate having to remove it to do it properly. One challenge that I know many of you have had is finding correct fuel hose. Outside the tank I've had success in finding a Gates hose that will work. But the smaller pieces that make up part of the fuel pump assembly need to be submersible fuel line which is proving to be near impossible to find. Does anyone know if BMW fuel line is submersible?

[gwb72tii]

I bought myself an early Christmas present. This is one I had in a previous house and had to sell, but just ordered the replacement.

It's the 4 post lift, not the 318is. Dang I so wish I still had that car (I still own the 2002tii on top).

[gwb72tii]

Well the output tube was not round and is the reason for the interference fit with the metal ring. I tapped a similar diameter bolt gently into the output tube and the metal ring now slips inside perfectly. It is honestly like the pump is OEM. The pump is now height adjustable. As others have found out, the rubber sleeve for the outside of the pump prevents the assembly from being able to be installed in the fuel tank opening. Plus the return tube needs to be held snuggly against the pump for everything to fit. Two steps forward, one back!

Good news is the car starts! Bad news is I have a small fuel leak from the output side of the fuel filter. I tried to adjust the fuel line diameter size using the same method as the outlet of the pump, a smaller fuel line inside a bigger fuel line. Honestly not sure why it’s leaking but will address the problem tomorrow. I have to leave my garage door open so I can crawl under when working on it and it’s raining and 39*. I’m cold enough to stop and jump in my hot tub.

[Mike W.]

I bought myself an early Christmas present. This is one I had in a previous house and had to sell, but just ordered the replacement.

It's the 4 post lift, not the 318is. Dang I so wish I still had that car (I still own the 2002tii on top).

Interesting picture. E21s seemed larger than '02s, and E30s at the least seemed no smaller than E21s, but in your pic, the '02 seems larger than the E30! I could Google the dimensions, but it doesn't matter in a way, the O2 looks bigger.

Now I do recall long ago an E30, M3 dash in an O2, but it was a figurative snapshot, I didn't see the details.