BMW E28 Hartge H5 - Engine Build

[hartgesplits]

Hi All,

I am looking for some specs on the Hartge H5 2.8L engine and the 3.5L engine.

I would like to build one of these engines to Hartge specs but finding it hard to locate any info on the web.

Has anyone built one?

Have some info on building one?

Any help - much appreciated.

[Blue Shadow]

Don't know if the mods are listed anywhere. Do you have a list of the mods that are part of the s build on the B34 motor? It wasn't a lot. Valves, cam, headers, port and polish might have been it, I'd have to think more than I want to right now.

[hartgesplits]

Thanks for the reply.

I have compiled all the info I can find but a lot is in German and not that specific as to what parts are required.

At first I thought the work involved:
- Cylinder Head
- Valves
- Camshaft
- Header pipes
- Exhaust

BUT... from looking at the catalogs in German it looks like there may be some other parts required e.g:
- AFM
- ECU
- Hartge distributor
- Oil Cooler

* Could you use these parts from the M535i?

--------------

THE GOAL
I would like to know what was done to get 187kw out of the SP 3.4L variant:


* Ideally I want to replicate that as close as possible - with currently available parts.

--------------

FINDINGS
I found some good stuff but nothing overly specific to tell me what I need.





--------------

Brochure 1983











--------------

Brochure Colour













--------------

Framed Poster







--------------

Thank you.

[Blue Shadow]

At first I thought the work involved:
- Cylinder Head Yes this was worked over
- Valves The exhaust valves were increased in size and were BMW parts
- Camshaft Yes but no one has documented the grind that I have seen for the motronic cars. The carb,L-jet version was measured and posted with a number of other cams a few years ago.
- Header pipes Yes
- Exhaust on my H7s the headers and exhaust tip seem to be the only changes. Th headers might have eliminated the front muffler. Mine is a dirty motor.

BUT... from looking at the catalogs in German it looks like there may be some other parts required e.g:
- AFM Don't know that they did this.
- ECU The 's' version uses the standard € ECU in my car for a 735i dirty motor. The 'sp' using different pistons to increase compression ratio used a reprogrammed ECU
- Hartge distributor Maybe on the early cars but my 11/84 build 1985 model uses the same motronic distributor
- Oil Cooler These can be added. I don't have one and haven't needed one.

That was so much easier than looking it up. When I get a chance I'll find the English version of the brochure and check things out.

Hartge Cars were bespoke vehicles, built to the purchase order. Alpina cars were built to Alpina specs, you got it all for the model. For this reason you can find all sorts of different Hartge builds and add in the availability of parts from the US distributors, these added to US cars that weren't exactly correct, like the head with cam work on a green motor.

[Chimi-Changa]

Yeah, so it depends which level of Hartge you are trying to replicate. The regular head had a 284 cam, plus 1 intake valves, HD springs ( M30B35ish) and heavy porting. Then a 2.8 intake I believe all ported up also ( shaved the nomenclature on the side for some reason), and their short tube headers.

SP mode was more like Plus 2 intake valves and plus 1 exhaust, 290ish cam, ported up and same intake treatment. Hartge high comp pistons (11:1 me thinks) and their crankshaft ( has Hartge stamped on it, no one seems to have any measurements off one) and maybe the Hartge oil pan.

In my Hartge tribute's M30b34 motor I'm using 10:1 piano tops ( with valve pockets cut in them), Dblias 290 cam, HD Korman rockers, B35 valves and springs, fully ported and matched to B35 intake with b35 fuel rail. Bigger injectors (pink tops) and running motronic 1.3.

Basically, unless your finding their parts to reuse, or recondition you should build up the most powerful naturally aspirated M90 or M30 motor you can- and Herbert Hartge would be happy.

[hartgesplits]

In my Hartge tribute's M30b34 motor I'm using 10:1 piano tops ( with valve pockets cut in them), Dblias 290 cam, HD Korman rockers, B35 valves and springs, fully ported and matched to B35 intake with b35 fuel rail. Bigger injectors (pink tops) and running motronic 1.3.

And roughly how much HP/KW is it making?

Basically, unless your finding their parts to reuse, or recondition you should build up the most powerful naturally aspirated M90 or M30 motor you can- and Herbert Hartge would be happy.

This is the goal, just wanting to know what parts will work best with each other and end up with as close to 190kw engine - as possible.

I was just hoping that there would be a spec. list with part numbers so I could identify the correct parts and start buying them for the build.

I found this for the Alpina B9 with all parts listed and part numbers, it's 45 pages, good document!

Stroke, bore, piston sizes etc, a lot of good information.

I read that the 11 digit numbers are BMW #s and the 7 digit ones are Alpina numbers. Some times the Alpina part is basically a modified BMW part.

Alpina B9 Teilekatalog
http://davidsondesign.com.au/images/e28 ... atalog.pdf



------------

Some more info I found on the Alpina:

The B9 is a 93.4 bore 84 stroke making it a 3453cc
Both engines have 47/39 valves with a 1.72 head gasket.

bore 92mm
stroke 86mm
cc 3430
comp 10.2
hp 245 @ 5700 rpm
tq 320nm (236ft-lb) @ 4000
rear axle 3.46
0-100kph (0-62 mph) 6.7 sec
top speed 240kph (149mph)
cam 280 degree
hemi head with open combustion chamber
high dome pistons
oversize intake and exhaust valves
polished, lightened and balanced rods
balancing, matching of internal components

------------

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.