Finally finished the Stahl long tube headers install

[jimoreno]

Hi everyone! I finally completed the installation of the Stahl long tube headers and also installed an Ireland Engineering SS catback exhaust. This combo sounds amazing! It's connected straight from the headers to the catback exhaust. Here are a couple of short videos:

https://youtube.com/shorts/NvwezJMSE24? ... MK4dIqz1GL

https://youtube.com/shorts/SsX0rCkL858? ... gDBuGx5Qcm

[turbodan]

How would you describe the difference in terms of performance?

[jimoreno]

The butt dyno feels the difference but since so many things changed at the same time it's difficult to pinpoint what made the biggest difference. The engine does rev better and has more torque at lower RPM's thanks to the long tube headers. It also goes to the redline quicker and just keeps going. Thinking about a MAF conversion later on. Eventually I want to rebuild the engine and might look at doing some small bolt on mods to improve breathing (maybe a cam and a B35 intake with some port matching). I was even thinking about doing the Motronic 1.3 conversion also.
What do you guys think?

[Mike W.]

The butt dyno feels the difference but since so many things changed at the same time it's difficult to pinpoint what made the biggest difference. The engine does rev better and has more torque at lower RPM thanks to the long tube headers. It also goes to the redline quicker and just keeps going.

Interesting, I didn't think they would make much difference on a stock B34 engine. And the butt dyno is the only one that counts if you're not racing.

[Blue Shadow]

And the butt dyno is the only one that counts if you're not racing.

Well you gotta respect the +HP stickers on the rear window, too.

[turbodan]

It's been a very long time since but I have seen a dyno showing significant gains on a stock b34. Even with the conservative cam timing, good headers provide an improvement.

Nothing like boost but more than you get from the usual bolr on stuff.

[szacsi72]

The butt dyno feels the difference but since so many things changed at the same time it's difficult to pinpoint what made the biggest difference. The engine does rev better and has more torque at lower RPM thanks to the long tube headers. It also goes to the redline quicker and just keeps going. Thinking about a MAF conversion later on. Eventually I want to rebuild the engine and might look at doing some small bolt on mods to improve breathing (maybe a cam and a B35 intake with some port matching). I was even thinking about doing the Motronic 1.3 conversion also.
What do you guys think?

The motronic 1.3 is nice but it doesn't really provide you with any HP gains, maybe smoother idle and one touch better fuel economy.
The MAF conversion is not worth the money IMO, it's expensive for such an old tech and there's not much support.

For the price of the m1.3 and the MAF conversion you can buy a megasquirt ms3, which is way more flexible, is easy to tune and is future proof if you decide to add more features or upgrade to COP etc.

[topher800]

Hi everyone! I finally completed the installation of the Stahl long tube headers and also installed an Ireland Engineering SS catback exhaust. This combo sounds amazing! It's connected straight from the headers to the catback exhaust.

How is the highway drone, if any? Would you drive 9 hours with that setup?

[jimoreno]

After you reach your speed there's virtually no drone at all. You can hear it at the end of the video as I'm releasing the gas and the noise is diminishing significantly.
I hope so because that will be my drive to the Vintage next year!

[turbodan]

The butt dyno feels the difference but since so many things changed at the same time it's difficult to pinpoint what made the biggest difference. The engine does rev better and has more torque at lower RPM thanks to the long tube headers. It also goes to the redline quicker and just keeps going. Thinking about a MAF conversion later on. Eventually I want to rebuild the engine and might look at doing some small bolt on mods to improve breathing (maybe a cam and a B35 intake with some port matching). I was even thinking about doing the Motronic 1.3 conversion also.
What do you guys think?

The motronic 1.3 is nice but it doesn't really provide you with any HP gains, maybe smoother idle and one touch better fuel economy.
The MAF conversion is not worth the money IMO, it's expensive for such an old tech and there's not much support.

For the price of the m1.3 and the MAF conversion you can buy a megasquirt ms3, which is way more flexible, is easy to tune and is future proof if you decide to add more features or upgrade to COP etc.

For MS you'll need a 60-2 crank wheel, VR sensor and matching wiring provisions. The 1.3 stuff is good for that, then it's a plug and play conversion to MS.

Once the tune is dialed is the driveability is better than any version of motronic and you can squeeze a few more HP out as well.

[shallam]

Congrats on the header install. The sound alone is a great payoff for the work involved.

As far as further performance mods, I think motronic 1.3 is worth it IF you plan on more extensive engine mods. It is more adaptable to meaningful hardware changes. It’s also an easy hop to mega squirt from 1.3.

I would not install a B35 intake as it will reduce the compression ratio of your B34 block/pistons. I did a budget build with a used set of B35 pistons, chose a ported/polished B34 head over the B35 head to up the CR, and installed a reground cam. Very pleased with the results.

[jimoreno]

...
I would not install a B35 intake as it will reduce the compression ratio of your B34 block/pistons. I did a budget build with a used set of B35 pistons, chose a ported/polished B34 head over the B35 head to up the CR, and installed a reground cam. Very pleased with the results.

I believe you mean a B35 head as I'm aware with the B34 pistons and a B35 head you will get around an 8:1 CR which is great for a turbo but I don't have the patience (or time) for that currently. I thought I read somewhere that a stock B35 cam is better and also that the B35 intake manifold has better flow and bigger runners (which of course need to be port matched to the gasket/head).

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll stay away from the MAF conversion but definitely thinking about the Motronic 1.3.
BTW, installing the IE exhaust was a little bit of a pain as it is only supported on one side plus it has an extension so it just wants to rotate clockwise. I think it still needs a tweak to have it horizontally aligned. Not too happy with the tips either but happy as hell with the sound!

[jimoreno]

Update on this install. The glorious sound was a nasty exhaust leak between the connecting pipes and the Ireland Engineering cat back exhaust. Because of the poor execution of the "fabricator" that even after been given pictures of what others had done still couldn't do it right, I decided to do it myself.
So I got a new Chinese multi process welder (Yeswelder MIG 205DS-B and started practicing welding. Ordered 1-3/4" pipes and elbows from Summit Racing, drew an exhaust gasket in AutoCad and adjusted the inner diameter to match the new pipes and had flanges waterjet cut in 3/8" SS (the fabricator made sheet metal flanges).
I originally reused the butt joint clamps but they leaked because the headers had at one point had a U clamp on them so they got distorted.
So I thought I took the headers out again and welded V-band clamps. No more leaks so the sound is much lower than before.
Finished the re-install Friday around 7:30 PM and drove about 300 round trip yesterday.
I realized after the fact that I should have added about an inch and a half to the left pipe between the two 45 degrees elbows to have both pipes be straight. I might do that in the future if I have to install catalytic converters.
Now to install the Motronic 1.3 conversion before the Vintage!

[Panici]

Yet another case of having to do it yourself to get it right. Basically my motto these days.

Congrats on picking up a new skill, MIG welding is great for a car guy.
Beyond exhaust & sheet metal bodywork, you can remove stuck/snapped hardware, fabricate custom tools, reinforce suspension/body mounts, etc!

[Chimi-Changa]

Super nice looking mid pipes! I have "Bav Auto" long tubes and had to have some custom ones made to meet up with the SS resonator. Ended up with 2 pieces each with a crappy band clamp in the middle. I went with 2 sensor bungs and use one for O2 and other for a wideband sensor.

W/ 1.3 a "chipped" 179 should work great with any hotter cam up to a 284ish? With a 290 I cam had to raise the idle and run a custom tune, etc. ( 10:1, B34 head fully ported, B35 valves and springs, HD rockers) B35 intake and airbox.

Did your V band clamps have a centering ring?

[jimoreno]

They have the male-female portions on the mating faces if that's what you are referring to.
Are you a mind reader? Because that's exactly what I'm planning for the engine. After getting the Motronic 1.3 working I was planning on getting a chip or maybe a plug and play MS2 box. Eventually getting the 10.1 pistons, and a ported head with a decent cam.
I thought about the 2nd bung (which I have but it's not the one with the pipe shape) but never installed it. Might go that route in the future.