In my opinion I think it would be good to create some rules for the sale forums - namely, not to crap on other people's for sale items...it's pretty rife at times here on MyE28 with people dogging someone's post or bleating about the price/condition, etc. What is best is to just ignore what one thinks is overpriced or stupid and just let it be - if it's too expensive or not wanted it will die on it's own. I don't particularly appreciate reading a posting and seeing someone say, "Waddya need one of those ugly bronzit things for?", or, "Hey, I got a trunkload of those things - you can have one for a pint of gas."
Of course, it's good to see someone point out a regular scam-artist...but, maybe we can create a feedback page for sellers and traders and just let the prospective buyer do there own homework? hmmm?
Can we create some rules for the 'for sale' forums?
Check it out - this site is all for headphone nuts, they have a lot of for sale items and they don't have same BS going on
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f41/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f41/
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stuartinmn
- Posts: 9462
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Minneapolis
Likewise the NSX Prime For sale section. No responses allowed, only the seller can post updates, edits, or SOLD posts... all correspondence from interested parties is via PM to the seller. This way all the BS peanut gallery post are eliminated.stuartinmn wrote:I like the HAMB board's rules - the only reply allowed in a for sale thread is, "I'll take it." Any correspondence with the seller is to be done via PMs, and any other kinds of posts online are deleted.
-RoyW
I believe we have a feedback forum. Of course, it's miles long and not very usable.
If we had something like an ebay system where, say, we could click on a user's name and see feedback about that person. Probably very complicated for a volunteer board. I'm certain it's possible, however. Just need to find someone who knows how to program it.
If we had something like an ebay system where, say, we could click on a user's name and see feedback about that person. Probably very complicated for a volunteer board. I'm certain it's possible, however. Just need to find someone who knows how to program it.
I like the feedback post in FS/WTB threads.
It does help clarify not only the quality but also the usefulness to a potentially uneducated buyer/seller.
I can think of a couple of recent threads where the feedback was negative in appearance but had positive results.
So if a vote was taken, I'd vote to leave as is.
It does help clarify not only the quality but also the usefulness to a potentially uneducated buyer/seller.
I can think of a couple of recent threads where the feedback was negative in appearance but had positive results.
So if a vote was taken, I'd vote to leave as is.
There is always room for improvement in any selling forum. I find that a standard of condition for items for sale should be in effect everywhere. How many times have you purchased something that someone says is in excellent condition that is a turd at best? One man's trash is another man's treasure? I think not.
If you look at folks selling used high end watches or quality cameras, you'll find a couple of grading scales. We should have something like that here.
Something like this:
LN or a "10" means Like New: the item is as new, no visible or operational difference from when the object was new from the factory. The object comes with original packaging and paperwork/manuals. Properly packaged as was from the factory. Absolutely perfect.
NOS or "9-9.5" means New Old Stock: same as above, but perhaps worn packaging from long shelf life. Paperwork yellowed from time. The item itself may have some surface dust, but nothing else. NOS, just because it has not been used is not a qualifiable rating for an item that has sat around and been beat on, scratched, or otherwise.
Mint or "9.5" (used item) means mint: the item may or may not have packaging or paperwork, but it's use has shown no wear whatsoever. The item is indistinguishable from new.
Mint- or "9" (used item) means mint minus: the item is close to new condition, but upon inspection will reveal slight signs of use. May or may not have packaging or paperwork.
Excellent+ or "8.5" (used item) means excellent plus: the item is used but is fully operational with some signs of use that are found without close inspection. No broken pieces, nothing repaired on it.
Excellent or "8" (used item): same as above, but has obvious signs of use. Again nothing broken or repaired on it.
Excellent- or "7.5" (used item): this is where things start to get weird. The item should either be in excellent or better cosmetic condition with small operational flaws (slow or a bit of noise) but functional, or fully functional without operational flaws and have more cosmetic defects.
Good or User or "6-7" (used item): item takes just a quick glance to see it is used, may have been repaired in the past, but everything is there on it. Works. May be a bit slow or noisy in operation but does do its job. Definitely a User that someone can immediately put to use without further repair.
Fair or "4-5.5" (used item): item is sub-User. Needs just basic repair to put to use. Cosmetics are somewhat irrelavent at this point. These items are "just to get me by for now" things.
Poor or "2-3.5" (used item): needs plenty of repair and restoration. Should not be used as is. Item is plainly sub to non-functional, but can be rescued.
Junk or "0-1.5" (used up item): good for nothing. Beyond reasonable attempts of repair or restoration. Best used only as a reference for identification purposes. Then, upon getting a better one, trashed or recycled.
If you see anyone selling something saying, "Excellent condition for the year" or "Excellent condition considering the mileage" etc., these are standard ploys of people that have no understanding of condition. If something is in excellent condition, it either is or isn't. Age and amount of use are totally irrelavent. If I told you I had a 1926 Dodge Brothers car for sale that was in excellent condition considering the age and mileage, you could have a picture of a running car in your head with care worn paint and rough upholstery. When you get here I can hand you a rusted frame with the tattered remnants of a body, siezed engine, and gobs of parts missing. I could say, "Hey, this car covered 83 years and 120,000 miles in its life. It's still in excellent condition, considering."
So having agreed standards of condition are an important part of selling things. It prevents people from being insulted in either direction if the rules are followed.
If you look at folks selling used high end watches or quality cameras, you'll find a couple of grading scales. We should have something like that here.
Something like this:
LN or a "10" means Like New: the item is as new, no visible or operational difference from when the object was new from the factory. The object comes with original packaging and paperwork/manuals. Properly packaged as was from the factory. Absolutely perfect.
NOS or "9-9.5" means New Old Stock: same as above, but perhaps worn packaging from long shelf life. Paperwork yellowed from time. The item itself may have some surface dust, but nothing else. NOS, just because it has not been used is not a qualifiable rating for an item that has sat around and been beat on, scratched, or otherwise.
Mint or "9.5" (used item) means mint: the item may or may not have packaging or paperwork, but it's use has shown no wear whatsoever. The item is indistinguishable from new.
Mint- or "9" (used item) means mint minus: the item is close to new condition, but upon inspection will reveal slight signs of use. May or may not have packaging or paperwork.
Excellent+ or "8.5" (used item) means excellent plus: the item is used but is fully operational with some signs of use that are found without close inspection. No broken pieces, nothing repaired on it.
Excellent or "8" (used item): same as above, but has obvious signs of use. Again nothing broken or repaired on it.
Excellent- or "7.5" (used item): this is where things start to get weird. The item should either be in excellent or better cosmetic condition with small operational flaws (slow or a bit of noise) but functional, or fully functional without operational flaws and have more cosmetic defects.
Good or User or "6-7" (used item): item takes just a quick glance to see it is used, may have been repaired in the past, but everything is there on it. Works. May be a bit slow or noisy in operation but does do its job. Definitely a User that someone can immediately put to use without further repair.
Fair or "4-5.5" (used item): item is sub-User. Needs just basic repair to put to use. Cosmetics are somewhat irrelavent at this point. These items are "just to get me by for now" things.
Poor or "2-3.5" (used item): needs plenty of repair and restoration. Should not be used as is. Item is plainly sub to non-functional, but can be rescued.
Junk or "0-1.5" (used up item): good for nothing. Beyond reasonable attempts of repair or restoration. Best used only as a reference for identification purposes. Then, upon getting a better one, trashed or recycled.
If you see anyone selling something saying, "Excellent condition for the year" or "Excellent condition considering the mileage" etc., these are standard ploys of people that have no understanding of condition. If something is in excellent condition, it either is or isn't. Age and amount of use are totally irrelavent. If I told you I had a 1926 Dodge Brothers car for sale that was in excellent condition considering the age and mileage, you could have a picture of a running car in your head with care worn paint and rough upholstery. When you get here I can hand you a rusted frame with the tattered remnants of a body, siezed engine, and gobs of parts missing. I could say, "Hey, this car covered 83 years and 120,000 miles in its life. It's still in excellent condition, considering."
So having agreed standards of condition are an important part of selling things. It prevents people from being insulted in either direction if the rules are followed.
I have a lot of experience in buying and selling records, CDs, etc.
While grading scales are useful, let's be honest. Everyone has a different way of interpreting condition. I can think of a few people who would be thrilled with something others might think of throwing in the trash. With records, it's quite difficult to photograph imperfections. Fortunately, that's not the case with BMW parts.
While grading scales are useful, let's be honest. Everyone has a different way of interpreting condition. I can think of a few people who would be thrilled with something others might think of throwing in the trash. With records, it's quite difficult to photograph imperfections. Fortunately, that's not the case with BMW parts.
I think must members take offense when a seller is trying to get over on another member so they call them out. I thought if we have a part(s) that another member needs, we should not try to make a profit unless we are in that business selling parts and members shall get a discount. Just my 0.02 cent in Chinese money.
I have mixed feelings on this. The dumping and s**ting should end, but I think asking probing questions regarding the specific product for condition and function should remain. For the most part I have had good experiences here, but there isn't much recourse, other than flagging the unscrupulous. With that in mind, pointing out misrepresentations isn't a bad thing. Passing judgements on price is not very professional.
I don't know if anyone explored the site I linked above - but here is a simple solution: post stickies that are always at the top of the page to give some basic guidelines for seller's and poster's - like this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/
I'm not too sure about a grading system myself - even a mechanic will say that NOS parts sometimes fail - buying car parts is more like buying a kidney at times than buying a used CD or LP.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/
I'm not too sure about a grading system myself - even a mechanic will say that NOS parts sometimes fail - buying car parts is more like buying a kidney at times than buying a used CD or LP.
That's too extreme the other way, IMO. Let's say someone is selling a "fine spline" steering wheel and the pictures clearly show a coarse spline wheel. The seller should be called out. What if it's only allowed by PM and the seller refuses to change the post? Potential buyers who are not savvy could easily buy a part they cannot use.RoyW wrote:Likewise the NSX Prime For sale section. No responses allowed, only the seller can post updates, edits, or SOLD posts... all correspondence from interested parties is via PM to the seller. This way all the BS peanut gallery post are eliminated.stuartinmn wrote:I like the HAMB board's rules - the only reply allowed in a for sale thread is, "I'll take it." Any correspondence with the seller is to be done via PMs, and any other kinds of posts online are deleted.
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mooseheadm5
- Beamter
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