szacsi72's 1984 Zinnoberrot 535i Build

[1st 5er]

Nice work on the piston cuts!

One can only imagine results if I attempted that.

[szacsi72]

Valve stem seal question.
There are three elring options that fit.
197.378 - black ACM
294.110 - green FPM
553.190 - red FPM

If I put the part number into Bárdi autó (local parts vendor), i get the black and green ones as options.
Elring lists the red one in their catalogue.
Autodoc gives me 774.456, which a 12 pack of red ones.

Which one do you guys use?
Thanks!
11349059170

[Mike W.]

It appears the red and green are the same, Viton, which is what you want. I'm used to seeing green so I'd probably go in that direction. I would not use the black, it doesn't appear to have the same heat resistance as Viton.

Viton is the best, you do not want not want Buna N or nitrile or neoprene, they don't hold up.

[szacsi72]

It appears the red and green are the same, Viton, which is what you want. I'm used to seeing green so I'd probably go in that direction. I would not use the black, it doesn't appear to have the same heat resistance as Viton.

Viton is the best, you do not want not want Buna N or nitrile or neoprene, they don't hold up.

I'll use Viton, that's for sure. The only thing I can't decide on is red or green. I'm not sure if there's any difference between them apart from colouring...


Technical drawing to convert the stock timing chain sprocket to an adjustable one (36 teeth = 10deg/teeth, so you only ever need +/-5 degree to make it 360°. In case onebody needs it. I'm also making a washer out of 2mm stainless to help keep things together. In case anybody will even need this.



photo upload sites

Similar to what Paul Burke did.. just no fancy CNC machining.


Remember to use longer bolts...

[Mike W.]

Interesting. What are you doing about the locating pin hole?

[szacsi72]

Interesting. What are you doing about the locating pin hole?

Nothing, I'm just removing it.
Not much point in a locating pin if the gear is adjustable

[shizzel669]

Shouldn’t the holes be offset? In your drawing it looks like they aren’t.

[szacsi72]

Shouldn’t the holes be offset? In your drawing it looks like they aren’t.

As you see I didn't give exact locations for the bolt holes. They will be milled on a manual machine, locate the hole, rotate CW, CCW, done

[szacsi72]

Good and bad news today.

Good news:
I got the parts back from the machine shop.



Bad news:
Wasted money, wasted time and no progress at all.
The machine shop fucked up... x2.
1. I asked them to deck the head 0.4mm. I measured the height to be roughly 128.9~128,95mm. Of course, calipers are not the tool you would use here, but it's accurate enough to tell that it's not 128.6mm as it should be. Also, the maximum decking marks are still showing and I measured ~0.35mm on them... this is upsetting, but at least this is useable and if I really wanted to, I could install it as is.
2. I installed the timing covers on both the cylinder head and the block prior to decking and told them specifically that they need to be cut together as the head gasket goes between them. The upper timing cover was installed and cut, but they removed the lower cover and didn't bother ????
Now I have a 0.3mm step between them! For the love of god. I can't install the head gasket like this!

And the worst part is that I traveled 400km's, and spent a complete day on the trip. Now I have to do that AGAIN, another 400km, another whole day, another favour from a bud to help me, another 100 bucks on fuel, AND, the guy is on vacation until September. SEPTEMBER. I have EVERYTHING laying on my desk, and I mean everything. And now I can't make progress for 2 months because of this.

I'm so frustrated, I don't even know what I should do.
Probably ask for a refund and find someone else... but even then, lot of time wasted.

[1st 5er]

[Mike W.]

Bad news:
Wasted money, wasted time and no progress at all.
The machine shop fucked up... x2.

Interesting how similar things can be a continent apart. Over the years I've found many marginal or incompetent machine shops. I've learned that if I find a good one, stick with it, don't look at the cost until later, just grin and bear it, it's cheaper to do it properly once than poorly twice. A good machinist is like gold and they seem few and far between.

Over here at least for the longest time all they really wanted to work on was American cast iron V8s. Most but not all would tolerate what they considered odd foreign stuff, but they for the most part didn't like it. And often the results showed. But where you're at I'm surprised, or at least I would think they would have lots of experience with lots of different engines.

[szacsi72]

Bad news:
Wasted money, wasted time and no progress at all.
The machine shop fucked up... x2.

Interesting how similar things can be a continent apart. Over the years I've found many marginal or incompetent machine shops. I've learned that if I find a good one, stick with it, don't look at the cost until later, just grin and bear it, it's cheaper to do it properly once than poorly twice. A good machinist is like gold and they seem few and far between.

Over here at least for the longest time all they really wanted to work on was American cast iron V8s. Most but not all would tolerate what they considered odd foreign stuff, but they for the most part didn't like it. And often the results showed. But where you're at I'm surprised, or at least I would think they would have lots of experience with lots of different engines.

That's what I did, this shop was the only one I used in the past 4 years, as they were normally very quick and precise and helped me with everything, even extreme stuff, like modifying the S50B32EU pistons to create a 3.2 stroker M50, or custom conrod bushings.. I think the guy was probably rushing due to him leaving for holiday and hence the mistakes. I would normally not be too upset, it happens. But 2 months waiting time and the 400kms don't help the case. I'll ring him today and see what we can do.

[szacsi72]

I talked to the machinist and now I'm not upset - I'm furious.

Problem 1:
"you must have mis-measured"
That's it. Whatever I told him he didn't listed. I asked him to take 0.4mm from the head. I measured before, and I measured after. I measured other heads. I looked in the book. I measured the dimples. It should be 128.6mm maximum. And it's 128.9mm. The dimples are still 0.3-0.35mm deep........
I'm so f...g angry guys I don't even know what to do.
The sheer arrogance he talked to me with.... He acted like if I was an idiot running around with plastic calipers. I tried to explain to him that I measured with 3 calipers, 2 micrometers, in 3 different ways, at 6 different locations...Mitutoyo, not some chinese garbage... NOTHING.
And other than a bad review, there's nothing I can do.

Problem 2:
"I just can't do it"
Regarding the fact he didn't cut the lower timing cover. That's it. I asked what to do about it... because now there's a bump there.....??? A 0.3mm bump? I don't think it's a great idea to install the HG like that. He doesn't know because he never does them, just the block itself.

Time, money and stress down the drain... Don't you just love reputable shops?

[Mike W.]

I've had plenty of bad experiences with machine shops as I said earlier, but I don't know if I've had one that bad. About all I can say is I feel your pain.

Beyond crude, but I've seen upper timing covers cut on a belt sander, a bench unit, not handheld. But I've also got one that's probably got .4MM out of square from front to back. It can be cut on a sander, slowly and carefully with lots of measuring and testing on the block.

[szacsi72]

I've had plenty of bad experiences with machine shops as I said earlier, but I don't know if I've had one that bad. About all I can say is I feel your pain.

Beyond crude, but I've seen upper timing covers cut on a belt sander, a bench unit, not handheld. But I've also got one that's probably got .4MM out of square from front to back. It can be cut on a sander, slowly and carefully with lots of measuring and testing on the block.

There is a guy who said he could do the lower timing cover for me on a fly cutter. It doesn't matter much if its a bit too low, but if it's too high, I can't properly tighten the cylinder head. So, fly cutter it is.

In the meantime, a couple updatese.

I cleared out the front of the car in preparation for the engine bay paintjob.



Finished the strut mount on the other side too. Now I can finally open the hood like a normal person...


However I'm not sure what to do about the hood latch wire. It's currently basically deleted, and the lever is mounted under the car body (yes. I know what you are thinking, and I'm thinking the same). I could install a bowden/wire in the originnal place but all the guides have been deleted, + I don't want a wire there, it's such a clean engine bay otherwise. Any tips? I'm thinking of somehow hiding it under the left wing.

Welded in the steering box mount reinforcement..


Some parts..


I'm refreshing the underbody coating first, then I'll move towards the engine bay and start sanding and bondo-ing.

My custom billet DSSR is also in:


Dave

[Mike W.]

There is a guy who said he could do the lower timing cover for me on a fly cutter. It doesn't matter much if its a bit too low, but if it's too high, I can't properly tighten the cylinder head. So, fly cutter it is.

There's always a way. You could pull the dowels out on the upper cover, I've seen that done before when it wasn't cut but the head was. Or if it was just too much, you could always cut the front "loop" of the HG off and RTV the upper to the lower. But it sounds like you finally have it under control and what I just mentioned are not good ways of doing things, just what can be done just in case.

[tig]

Some parts..

Nice background!

[szacsi72]

There is a guy who said he could do the lower timing cover for me on a fly cutter. It doesn't matter much if its a bit too low, but if it's too high, I can't properly tighten the cylinder head. So, fly cutter it is.

There's always a way. You could pull the dowels out on the upper cover, I've seen that done before when it wasn't cut but the head was. Or if it was just too much, you could always cut the front "loop" of the HG off and RTV the upper to the lower. But it sounds like you finally have it under control and what I just mentioned are not good ways of doing things, just what can be done just in case.

Yep, many ways around it but having invested upwards of 4-5k in an Engine, I don't want workarounds.

Some parts..

Nice background!

I need to look at your car once in a while to remember my E28 is an actual vehicle and not just a bunch of parts sitting in my garage...

[Galahad]

My custom billet DSSR is also in:

Your own work? I have a custom shift rod but it's one-sided - had Send Cut Send make it for me. Sad they don't have that in Europe

[szacsi72]

My custom billet DSSR is also in:

Your own work? I have a custom shift rod but it's one-sided - had Send Cut Send make it for me. Sad they don't have that in Europe

Sure is. I made them double sided so that I could use precision/matched bolts - or whatever their proper name is. It's ISO 7379. Apart from the middle being 10mm-f9, meaning a really nice fit with BMW's selector joint, I can adjust the preload, to dial in slack and tension, or make up for wear over time.

[Galahad]

Sure is. I made them double sided so that I could use precision/matched bolts - or whatever their proper name is. It's ISO 7379. Apart from the middle being 10mm-f9, meaning a really nice fit with BMW's selector joint, I can adjust the preload, to dial in slack and tension, or make up for wear over time.

We call them shoulder bolts over here, not sure if that's the technical name. Mine has those, I'll try to snag a pic next time I'm under the car.

[szacsi72]

Heyall,

Not a lot of updates lately, but here's a quick sumup.

• I am not dead! That's a start. I started my new job in September, which is really nice, but it does requite a lot of work; at least in the beginning. I had to drive a lot to learn at a different location that is 3hrs away from me, sometimes 3-4 times a week. Glad that's over.. I'm going to Germany this weekend for 2 weeks, to learn from the german collegues as well. I'm excited for that, haven't been there for a while. Hopefully I'll see some nice old bavarians... I'll be in Stuttgart, I plan to visit the Porsche and Mercedes Museums in my free time.

• I bought a 200 E39 Touring 523i for a cheap daily/secondary car. It's quite nice, but needed/needs some work, so that took away from the E28.

• Since I'm going to Germany, I asked my friend to shop a couple of rarer items for me, that are cheaper there, including Cerakote. I'll be coating my pistons (and maybe some other components too) with C110 and C186.

• I still have not had the time to take the front cover to the machine shop...

• But I'm 80% trough with the head porting, I just need to buff it out a little (up to 180grit), and it's done.

• I took apart my suspension for measurements, it's going slowly, but I've at least decided on the springs rates: 6k front, 5.5k rear.

I will be home in early november for two weeks, and I plan on making some good progress on the engine build, before heading out to another business trip. I PLAN. We will see!

[szacsi72]

This is off-topic, but I'm sure many of you guys are interested. The Porsche museum was awesome. It feels more of a car exhibition than a "proper" museum, but as a Porsche fan, I'm not complaining...

I took almost 500 photos, here's a couple of them.








And yes - from now on, I'm using my DSLR instead of my potato phone camera to document the build

[szacsi72]

I need some help. Maybe someone out there has done cerakote already - but even if not, I'm eager to hear your opinion.
The question is simple: what should I cerakote?

Micro slick:
Coat the whole piston (apart from the top); coat only the skirt; coat the whole bottom part of the piston, apart from ringlands.
I've seen all the versions before, even on the original website. I'm leaning towards whole bottom part, but not the ringlands. That part of the piston should even really touch the cylinder walls, and I don't like the idea of having less space around the rings.

Anything else I could benefit from? I'm thinking of coating the camshaft bearing journals too. I was considering the rocker shafts, but the coating would come off anyway during install.

The thermal barrier part is easy; top of the pistons + the cylinder head (w/ valves).

[jimoreno]

I'm about to do this on the B35 pistons that I'm about to install as part of the rebuild. Micro Slick is intended for the skirt area of the pistons and what I've seen is that they tend to leave about 1/8" gap from the edge of the piston. However, it doesn't cover the whole side of the piston pin area, just from slightly below it to the previously mentioned margin. Sideways I have no idea but I'm waiting for the aluminum oxide media to arrive to start blasting the pistons. The top of the piston gets covered with Piston Coat which is apparently a different product with different characteristics.

By the way, are you using oven or air cure? Air cure needs 5 days to cure prior to installation. I've only used air cure since I don't have an oven to cure the items I was handling.