GOD'S VENGEANCE - Complete Drivetrain Redux

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Nov 22, 2011 7:43 AM

FirstFives Dictator wrote:Oil restrictors in the block?

If so what size?

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Nov 22, 2011 8:35 AM

Scottinva wrote:
FirstFives Dictator wrote:Oil restrictors in the block?
If so what size?

.110" IIRC

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Nov 27, 2011 3:01 AM

Taking the time to get everything layed out. All new hardware. Wire set in o-ring grooves on deck: .041 stainless steel wire. The lower timing cover has been a pain. Had to take .014 off the top to be flush with block. Also had to blast the inside since some powdercoated overspray was present. Don't need that flaking off and clogging the oil pump or getting trapped in the restrictors to the head.

Corner Carver · Post by **Corner Carver** » Nov 27, 2011 2:31 PM

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 05, 2011 1:49 AM

Manual PB console finished. Turned out perfect with ///M stitching matching the shift boot and steering wheel.
Necessary? No, but it makes me happy and that's the whole point behind this exercise.

Tammer in Philly · Post by **Tammer in Philly** » Dec 05, 2011 10:54 AM

I'm really enjoying the build, but I'm going to offer my standard cautionary note. While I think tracking a street car is a fine idea for novice and intermediate drivers who are generally pretty slow, and it's a great learning experience that really everyone should do at least once or twice. However, if you are going to the track with regularity, the game changes. You're no longer a novice, so you're probably horsing the car around pretty well, carrying some significant speed into and through corners, and driving near the limits of adhesion most of the time. You're at the track frequently, so even if the probability of a mechanical or mental failure on a per-event basis is the same, the likelihood that you will land on the wrong side of that coin toss is higher. And since you're going faster due to that experience, the penalty will be higher.

You are building what will be a very fast car. If you really do get to the track 10+ times annually, please consider buying or building a dedicated car with the full complement of safety equipment. 25-year-old 3-point belts just don't cut it when the car in front of you drops water and you head into a wall at 80+ mph. This guy walked away with sore nuts and a bunch of bruises thanks to his cage, harnesses, and HANS:
http://vimeo.com/33128427

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... 248&page=1

Your skill level becomes irrelevant when the track is soiled immediately in front of you, and you don't have to be in a race to experience it. Here's a very near miss in a DE (I was driving in this session; the green E36 at the end of the video is my friend Jonathan--great reflexes and immense luck): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m5hlhcFMko

In a car with 150+ mph speed potential on a track like Miller, think hard about what you want to look like after that sort of event.

-tammer

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 06, 2011 1:29 AM

Thanks for the advice and insight Tammer. Those are some pretty incredible videos in the links. It would appear the incidents were unavoidable unless the drivers had determined not to race that day. Otherwise, they appear to have reacted well to the situations.

With a build that is in some ways seeking to have the cake and eat it too (luxury amenities and high performance) there are many trade-off's: high-end audio system vs. more weight, racing harnesses vs. inconvenience/comfort, precise handling vs. harsh ride, etc...
I will however be running some enhanced safety equipment in addition to the harnesses. A fire suppression system and roll cage will likely be in the mix.

By no means am I an expert driver but I know my limits, don't feel the need to impress anyone and don't have a death wish. The car will be pushed but not tortured and beaten. Once I get the car back on the road I will essentially have a new car and I will need to learn to drive all over again. My DD is a lifted Jeep so it will be a big change from what I'm use to.

I am active in the Wasatch Chapter of the local BMWCCA. There are regular driving seminars, autocrosses, wrench-fests and track days at Miller. The motorsport park also offers driving schools of various levels. The nice thing about this track is the long run-outs of grass and gravel that help to bleed off speed before coming into contact with a wall. With all the time and energy I've invested I would rather not find the limits of adhesion anywhere near a vertical slab of concrete.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 19, 2011 1:07 AM

Inching closer to the finish line: oil pan sealed up, Imagineering (PB) custom head bolted up, cam timed in (note Paul's adjustable cam sprocket), B35 harmonic balancer and crank pulley installed. We've spent the past 14 months getting everything perfect. Now, the motor is starting to come together. We spent 12 hours just machining the lower timing cover to sit perfectly. I spent 2 hours on Friday with the oil pan in the solvent tank until all the sludge was removed and it looked good as new. The exterior was ceramic coated following the TIG'd -10 oil return bung just for shit's-n-giggles. The OE return port was tapped and fitted with a cap from a CAT tractor, courtesy of my recently deceased father-in-law who spent a lifetime turning wrenches on heavy equipment.

We'll verify valve and spark plug clearances, install the flywheel and button up the valve cover tomorrow.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Dec 19, 2011 1:11 AM

Wow! Impressive, but you knew that. Totally HARDCORE.

Good & Tight · Post by **Good & Tight** » Dec 19, 2011 6:07 AM

Coming along nicely. One question, stock head bolts no ARP's did I miss something?

T_C_D · Post by **T_C_D** » Dec 19, 2011 8:29 AM

Nice job degreeing the cam. That takes some effort. Why stock head bolts?

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Dec 19, 2011 8:33 AM

Something looks very familiar.......hummmmmmmmmmmmmm.

T_C_D · Post by **T_C_D** » Dec 19, 2011 8:42 AM

Duke wrote:
Something looks very familiar.......hummmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The entire build is eerily reminiscent of yours. Makes me nervous.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Dec 19, 2011 8:43 AM

T_C_D wrote:The entire build is eerily reminiscent of yours. Makes me nervous.

It will be OK, no way in hell all of that can go wrong again. That was a once in a 100 year thing.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Dec 19, 2011 10:22 AM

His block is red. It will be different.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Dec 19, 2011 10:25 AM

wkohler wrote:His block is red. It will be different.

That should do it.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 19, 2011 3:33 PM

Good & Tight wrote:Coming along nicely. One question, stock head bolts no ARP's did I miss something?

I've been counseled by several knowledgeable sources that ARP studs are NOT necessary if you use new head bolts and torque them properly. If the motor starts eating head gaskets like some of the builds in this forum I may consider spending the extra $150 for studs. The checkbook has been wide open for this build already. I feel that with proper installation, new hardware and o-ringed cylinders, studs would be redundant. We'll see what kind of performance is derived at 1 bar. I have a feeling it will be plenty to keep me happy.

Duke: I've read through your Hartge build several times and I was very impressed. However, as you've pointed out there were several mistakes made along the way. I'm attempting to learn from those mistakes. I've also gotten some good ideas from your build which I have or intend to use. Motorsport colors on engine components is nothing new, so I assume there is no requirement to pay royalties.

Besides, isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Dec 19, 2011 3:47 PM

^ yes stock non-stretch bolts are huge and have been
proven to hold 20psi constantly
but the studs will get even torque across the block.

Some of my bolts got harder to turn at different lengths
so I'm thinking the holding pressure on the head won't be
real even on all the bolts going by torque.

Just saying.
I got my stock bolts torqued to 80lb btw

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Dec 19, 2011 4:32 PM

Murfinator wrote:Duke: I've read through your Hartge build several times and I was very impressed. However, as you've pointed out there were several mistakes made along the way. I'm attempting to learn from those mistakes. I've also gotten some good ideas from your build which I have or intend to use. Motorsport colors on engine components is nothing new, so I assume there is no requirement to pay royalties. Besides, isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery?

I like it, don't get me wrong. The biggest mistake I made is using that M106 shortblock with unknown history. You have a great foundation with yours.........wish you all the luck and future short tire life. BTW - those are Hartge colors.

I too would be using studs and not bolts.........ARP everything you can, cheap insurance.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Dec 19, 2011 4:58 PM

Blowing HG's can very easily cause serious engine damage, especially with a turbo motor. You would have to be crazy to put that thing together without studs. There are a few components that you need to spend money on and in my opinion that is at the top of the list.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 19, 2011 7:33 PM

"Duke"I like it, don't get me wrong. The biggest mistake I made is using that M106 shortblock with unknown history. You have a great foundation with yours.........wish you all the luck and future short tire life. BTW - those are Hartge colors.

I too would be using studs and not bolts.........ARP everything you can, cheap insurance.

When you add the red you get BMW ///Motorsport colors. I have more than a few Hartge pieces on the car but felt red components looked better than black. I didn't set out to build a tribute car but rather what does it for me.

I agree that studs could function as cheap insurance but I'm no fool who keeps cranking the boost in an effort to overcome worn and grimy parts and 'beat' unsuspecting high schooler's in stock Mustangs and Hondas off the line at stop lights. I've been out of school for more than a couple years and well past that phase. It's no longer entertaining.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Dec 19, 2011 7:45 PM

Murfinator wrote:I'm no fool who keeps cranking the boost in an effort to overcome worn and grimy parts and 'beat' unsuspecting high schooler's in stock Mustangs and Hondas off the line at stop lights. I've been out of school for more than a couple years and well past that phase. It's no longer entertaining.

What does that have to do with a better head to block clamping ability. I can't believe the PB has not beaten you up over using bolts.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 19, 2011 8:13 PM

Duke wrote:What does that have to do with a better head to block clamping ability. I can't believe the PB has not beaten you up over using bolts.

Again, the OE bolts are meant for one-time use because they stretch. The longer they are, the more they stretch. If you use new bolts and torque them properly in the prescribed sequence to include heat cycling there is no reason they won't hold. How is it studs would clamp any better when you're using the same mounting locations for the studs or bolts? It was Paul who advised NOT to use ARP's because they are unnecessary with a proper build. I haven't cut any corners. I may yet replace the bolt with studs, especially if I need to remove the head but I don't believe it will be necessary any time soon.

The motor just prior to bagging, placing on a pallet and forklifting into my truck:

It's future home:

Coldswede · Post by **Coldswede** » Dec 19, 2011 8:27 PM

Don't stop now! I'm still taking notes and saving pictures!

Very nice build.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Dec 19, 2011 8:37 PM

Head bolts have a yield strength just like any other fastener. Its not necessarily an issue of clamping force as much as it is tensile strength.

Don't kid yourself about being too mature to push limits. You'll want more as soon as you get it running.

MyE28.com

MyE28.com

GOD'S VENGEANCE - Complete Drivetrain Redux