MyE28.com

turbodan wrote:Head bolts have a yield strength just like any other fastener. Its not necessarily an issue of clamping force as much as it is tensile strength.

Don't kid yourself about being too mature to push limits. You'll want more as soon as you get it running.

Very true, but with all the superficial work (cleaning, painting, powder coating, anodizing, polishing, etc...) I have plenty of incentive to keep it on the pavement and not in a guard rail, over a cliff or into a stack of tires.

How much space does the ABS line shield occupy? Fitment of the turbo outlet and intercooler are very tight.

T_C_D wrote:How much space does the ABS line shield occupy? Fitment of the turbo outlet and intercooler are very tight.

The bulkiest part of the heat shield sits above and to the rear of the turbo outlet and intercooler inlet. Laterally from the strut tower it protrudes 1.5" in toward the centerline from the sheetmetal below the strut tower. This protrusion corresponds with the vertical rail which contains the plug for the ABS sensor. If it becomes a clearance issue I may have to resort to the alignment tool (sledge) and grinder.

Link to build thread: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3904396/1988-bmw-5-series

I'm there.

Any updates?

Nice build.

What happened to the ITB's? Updates?

I would highly recommend rocker locks. On your car running at Miller you will most likely be living up in the 6000-7000 range quite often. The factory coil type retaining springs will cause the rockers to walk.

It would be a shame to risk such a great cylinder head. I broke 3 rockers while going from 15-20 psi until I got locks. Then no more broken rockers ever.

thespeedfactory wrote:Nice build.

What happened to the ITB's? Updates?

I would highly recommend rocker locks. On your car running at Miller you will most likely be living up in the 6000-7000 range quite often. The factory coil type retaining springs will cause the rockers to walk.

It would be a shame to risk such a great cylinder head. I broke 3 rockers while going from 15-20 psi until I got locks. Then no more broken rockers ever.

Thanks speedfactory. Unique looking build you have there. I'll be trolling for more information on your plenum, ignition and ECU choices.

With any luck Paul has found some time to put the finishing touches on my B36 ITB's and plates.

I've already put many laps on the car at Miller. Yes, the RPM's tend to hover ~5500 and I'm looking forward to the changes in drive train: rebuilt big case s3.07, 262 sport 5-speed and of course the motor.

Rocker locks are a farce. If the head has been assembled properly the arms should not walk off the shafts. Rather, the locks tend to oval the shaft and cause damage. Believe me, if there was any utility to adding them I would have. My build isn't about cutting corners but I do research the best price for the best gear.

What part of Korea?

Just south of Seoul. I will be on leave in Utah this summer doing some builds and retiring in the Ogden area in 2015. Would love to see the car running at Miller by July.

If you will be using the OEM TPS on the ITB's you will need to drastically modify the T-stat housing. I fabbed up ITB's in '08 and ran into this problem.

If the TPS can be relocated to the back side by the firewall it should work but I am not sure. WIll you be making a custom plenum or the factory M box?

I was using Haltech E11V2 with as much success as I could with no pro tuning or Dyno. It was difficult to street tune to 2.0 bar...LOL

I was stationed at Osan for a short stint in '92 while active with the Marines.

The car will likely be running late summer or fall. I'm taking my time.

To address the B34/35 t-stat clearance I've again called upon the wizardry of the great Paul Burke. He's made the necessary modifications to the housing. I'll be posting pics soon of his handiwork. The fuel rail has received similar touches, being similar to that on Ken's LH build some years past.

I'm contemplating using a stock E28/S38 plenum and modifying it to receive input between the 3/4 runners from the TCD w>a intercooler. I've considered ditching the TCD unit but like the economy of pipework it affords. Besides, I've tossed the crappy pump and heat exchangers that came with the TCD kit and upgraded to higher capacity units.

Been looking at the Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 ECU. Still undecided. Been busy gutting my stock fuel system.

Don't mess with stupid Walbros.

Bosch 044's

Are you running low or high imp injectors? I struggled to find perfect stoich idle with my low Z 750's. I had to settle for 13.9 idle.

Next build I am going with high imp 1200's.

What is your plan for fuel storage? Injectors? FPR?

Sorry if I ask too many questions. I had to strip the drag car down in summer 2010. Then I had a stupid GTR for a bit, then an even dumber EVO 4, and finally a decent STI Type R.

I am going through boosted BMW withdrawals...

No, I'm done with crappy Walbro's and the like. In running E85 it's important to upgrade from rubber fuel lines also. There's only so much flow one can squeeze through a straw (about the same diameter as the OE lines). Felt it time to step up to the big leagues and install some high quality gear: Aeromotive and Aeroquip.

The slides below are rough sketches of my fuel system and preliminary fitments of the hybridized fuel cell. I took two OE tanks and cut the top and bottom off and fabricated a baffle box for the in-tank Aeromotive A-1000 pump in their new 'Stealth' configuration. I took some pointers from Ken (see LH build) regarding similar modifications. Unfortunately Aeromotive hadn't release this pump set up in time for his build. The slides are from the fall. I've nearly completed the fabrication and am in the process of epoxy coating the interior of the tank, following which I will have the exterior powder coated then pressure tested for integrity. The return port location has changed to the vicinity of the OE sender unit. The lift pump ports have been fill welded. The floor of the tank has been cut to fit the baffle box such that it sits flat. Internal ribbing and minimum mounting depth of the pump/filter assembly necessitated reinforcement of the upper mounting surface and removal of the original tank bottom.

I'm perhaps most excited by the elegant utility of servicing of the pump and in-tank 100 micron filter once the tank is installed: like the OE pump/sender unit access hatch in the trunk floor I've added a second identical access hatch to the rear-center of the trunk where the stamping already provided a round, flat spot in the trunk floor. When you lift the carpet everything looks stock. It's almost too bad it will be covered.

Awesome stealth build.

Any noise concerns with the A1000? I elected against the A1000 external because of the noise. The in tank A1000 should be much quieter I would think.

Double check the in bay mock up of the 90 deg A/N fittings off of your fuel rail. I wanted to do that with my build but I hit the firewall and interfered with the cooling hoses.

I can't wait to build again with proper shops and fabrication like yours. Mine was unfortunately a home build.

Thanks for posting so many pics.

I'm surprised that you are using stock configuration on fuel rail at those power levels.
I'd be worried about uneven fuel distribution at cylinders closest to the supply line.

FirstFives Dictator wrote:I'm surprised that you are using stock configuration on fuel rail at those power levels.
I'd be worried about uneven fuel distribution at cylinders closest to the supply line.

Thank you for your comment and a I appreciate your input. Aside from the supply line attaching at the firewall end of the rail the fuel rail configuration is anything but stock. The pressure will always remain rock steady given the manifold referenced FPR, more than adequate supply line diameter with full-flow connectors and speed controlled in-tank pump. At my estimated power level of ~500 hp I'll have more than enough fuel to feed the motor. Ken's build added a second pump, fuel rail and injectors but his power level or fuel requirement is about a third higher than mine. I agree with his sentiment that 500 hp is more than enough to soil my shorts.

Anything I should do differently?

Murfinator wrote:

FirstFives Dictator wrote:I'm surprised that you are using stock configuration on fuel rail at those power levels.
I'd be worried about uneven fuel distribution at cylinders closest to the supply line.

Thank you for your comment and a I appreciate your input. Aside from the supply line attaching at the firewall end of the rail the fuel rail configuration is anything but stock. The pressure will always remain rock steady given the manifold referenced FPR, more than adequate supply line diameter with full-flow connectors and speed controlled in-tank pump. At my estimated power level of ~500 hp I'll have more than enough fuel to feed the motor. Ken's build added a second pump, fuel rail and injectors but his power level or fuel requirement is about a third higher than mine. I agree with his sentiment that 500 hp is more than enough to soil my shorts.

Anything I should do differently?

Edit: have you calculated the velocity of the fuel through the rail at max flow?

FirstFives Dictator wrote:Edit: have you calculated the velocity of the fuel through the rail at max flow?

S/b a skosh under 1.29 fps if I have my numbers right--fuel line ID = .5", max flow on 65# injectors @ 75% duty cycle = 48.75# per hour.

FirstFives Dictator wrote:

Murfinator wrote:

FirstFives Dictator wrote:I'm surprised that you are using stock configuration on fuel rail at those power levels.
I'd be worried about uneven fuel distribution at cylinders closest to the supply line.

Thank you for your comment and a I appreciate your input. Aside from the supply line attaching at the firewall end of the rail the fuel rail configuration is anything but stock. The pressure will always remain rock steady given the manifold referenced FPR, more than adequate supply line diameter with full-flow connectors and speed controlled in-tank pump.

Depending on whose standalone engine management is used, flow rates, pulse widths and duty cycles can be measured on a per-hole basis. That being said, using an individual cylinder trim can make appropriate adjustments.

This feature is one very good reason to consider the ELM TEC-3r. <<end commercial>>

Ken H. wrote:

FirstFives Dictator wrote:

Murfinator wrote:

FirstFives Dictator wrote:I'm surprised that you are using stock configuration on fuel rail at those power levels.
I'd be worried about uneven fuel distribution at cylinders closest to the supply line.

Thank you for your comment and a I appreciate your input. Aside from the supply line attaching at the firewall end of the rail the fuel rail configuration is anything but stock. The pressure will always remain rock steady given the manifold referenced FPR, more than adequate supply line diameter with full-flow connectors and speed controlled in-tank pump.

Depending on whose standalone engine management is used, flow rates, pulse widths and duty cycles can be measured on a per-hole basis. That being said, using an individual cylinder trim can make appropriate adjustments.

This feature is one very good reason to consider the ELM TEC-3r. <<end commercial>>

Assuming you have:

a) 6 bungs in manifold

b) wideband sensors that will survive the heat. LSU-4 sensors will not. NTK will but six of them ain't a cheap date.


I just tuned a TR8 ITS race car and we trimmed each cylinder by rpm and load. This car was within 1/2 point for the most part before corrections. MegaSquirt MS3

FirstFives Dictator wrote:Assuming you have:
a) 6 bungs in manifold
b) wideband sensors that will survive the heat. LSU-4 sensors will not. NTK will but six of them ain't a cheap date.
No sh*t.
I just tuned a TR8 ITS race car and we trimmed each cylinder by rpm and load. This car was within 1/2 point for the most part before corrections. MegaSquirt MS3

This is good work.
I used the TEC-3r on LH for a host of reasons. I don't think Murf has pulled the trigger yet on his standalone selection.
But getting things dialed in then doing the tedious work of the per-hole corrections on both fuel and ignition timing ran up time on the rollers something fierce.

With regard to dual input fuel rails and variable pressure levels within the rail: it is physically impossible to have variable fluid pressure at one end of the rail or at one injector compared to another injector input. For this condition to exist would be analogous to there being fluctuations in air pressure within a single tire; it doesn't happen in nature.

Made some progress with the fuel cell. I've cut a large hole in the top and bottom of one fuel cell which was in excellent condition and cut a larger piece out of the top of the cell which came out of the car but had a large dent in the bottom. There is a one inch overlap to support the pump assembly. Fabricated a baffle box as shown in prior posts and welded it into the rear bottom center of the fuel cell. The top piece from the other cell was cut to fit the Aeromotive A-1000 pump, pick up and 100 micron filter which will sit centered over the baffle box. An additional plate was welded to the top plate to reinforce the pump mounting position and add thickness and stand-off from the bottom of the cell. The pump assembly needs 9 3/4" of height and I had 9 7/8". With the additional plate there's now 10" and the pickup hovers slightly above the baffle box. The pump has a -10 AN fitting. I've added a -10 to -8 reducer and full-flow 90 degree elbow. The additional height this adds will necessitate lowering the entire tank. To service the pump/filter once installed there is a second round access hatch in the trunk floor supplementing the existing hatch over the OE sender and lift pump. The lift pump has been removed and feed/return ports cut and fill welded smooth. A -6 Aeroquip bulkhead fitting has been welded in place adjacent the OE sending unit on the OE cover to keep things clean. This fitting will serve as a fuel return and waterfall fuel back into the cell via the 2" fitting and a 90 degree -6 full-flow fitting. Feed and return hoses are -8 and -6 respectively, Aeroquip flexible TFE with braided stainless jacketing.

Since these photos were taken the top plate has been welded to the new cell and the tank thoroughly scrubbled, blasted, pressure washed, acid etched, cleaned with acetone and coated multiple times with fuel tank epoxy sealer on the interior. The exterior is being powder coated.

Murfinator wrote:With regard to dual input fuel rails and variable pressure levels within the rail: it is physically impossible to have variable fluid pressure at one end of the rail or at one injector compared to another injector input. For this condition to exist would be analogous to there being fluctuations in air pressure within a single tire; it doesn't happen in nature.

Sounds like you have it figured out, then.

Ken H. wrote:

FirstFives Dictator wrote:Assuming you have:
a) 6 bungs in manifold
b) wideband sensors that will survive the heat. LSU-4 sensors will not. NTK will but six of them ain't a cheap date.
No sh*t.
I just tuned a TR8 ITS race car and we trimmed each cylinder by rpm and load. This car was within 1/2 point for the most part before corrections. MegaSquirt MS3

This is good work.
I used the TEC-3r on LH for a host of reasons. I don't think Murf has pulled the trigger yet on his standalone selection.
But getting things dialed in then doing the tedious work of the per-hole corrections on both fuel and ignition timing ran up time on the rollers something fierce.

you might enjoy this screen shot. The 8 widebands were connected to the MS3 via CANBus.

FirstFives Dictator wrote:

Murfinator wrote:With regard to dual input fuel rails and variable pressure levels within the rail: it is physically impossible to have variable fluid pressure at one end of the rail or at one injector compared to another injector input. For this condition to exist would be analogous to there being fluctuations in air pressure within a single tire; it doesn't happen in nature.

Sounds like you have it figured out, then.

FirstFives Dictator wrote:
you might enjoy this screen shot. The 8 widebands were connected to the MS3 via CANBus.

I suppose all 8 widebands are installed in the fuel rail...or the manifold? That's what I thought.

Perhaps you could provide an explanation of what your log is showing? Since you seem only to want to throw up about a screenshot I'll take a wild guess: AFR variations within individual intake runners or ITB's. Nice, but wouldn't the variation be explained by the sequential opening of injector pintles which disturbs both pressure and AFR in the area near the widebands? I'm assuming the widebands are installed near the injectors since you failed to elaborate regarding the layout of the system being measured in the log. I again assume it's a V8 race car you apparently make a good honest living tuning.

Helpful comments are appreciated but attempts to show your better informed than myself, a given since I'm a hobbyist and you do this for a living, aren't helpful.

Have you installed six wideband sensors in your E12?