Noob M30B35 Build

[tig]

I'm not letting the tension of the hoist until someone confirms that I've done this right. It just looks so sketchy to me. All that weight pulling on two 8 bolts, pushing (partly) on two 10s, and those flimsly looking stand arms. It just doesn't look strong enough.

It is a 1000lb stand.

[tig]

I am waiting until my son has some time away from homework and Lacrosse to really dig into tearing stuff off the motor (and for someone to confirm I put it on the stand correctly). But I did a little poking around tonight.

It started with getting the wiring harness off. I'm not very pleased with the condition of the harness. I don't see any stripped wires, but the thick black insulation is broken in a few places and it feels pretty brittle. I'll clean it up and inspect closely sometime soon.

I did notice this taking the plug wires off. This is not on the M30B34 spark plug wires. What is it for? It connects into the wiring harness.

[RangerGress]

I am waiting until my son has some time away from homework and Lacrosse to really dig into tearing stuff off the motor (and for someone to confirm I put it on the stand correctly). But I did a little poking around tonight.

It started with getting the wiring harness off. I'm not very pleased with the condition of the harness. I don't see any stripped wires, but the thick black insulation is broken in a few places and it feels pretty brittle. I'll clean it up and inspect closely sometime soon.

I did notice this taking the plug wires off. This is not on the M30B34 spark plug wires. What is it for? It connects into the wiring harness.

Engine harnesses lead a tough life. If you remove the insulation from a wire you'll find it black with tarnish for several feet under the insulation. It's a wonder that the connections between wire to connector, and connector to connector, function at all.

Some carefully applied conductive grease is a nice idea as you refasten connectors.

The pic shows the magnetic pickup on #6 plug wire. All M20B25 plug wire sets have this. I think M20B27's have it too, but I'm not as certain.

This pickup on #6 is how the DME tells the phase of the crank. Recall that the crank position sensor (on the front of the engine for M20B25, but on the tranny for B27) senses crank location. But there's 2 crank revs for every cam rev so knowing where the crank is doesn't tell the DME where the cam is. Based on the crank location info, the cam could be in the first 180deg or the 2nd 180deg.

The cam turns the distributor rotor which makes plug #6 fire. That mag pickup on #6 wire, therefore, tells the DME exactly where the cam is so the DME can properly synch bank-fire the injectors with the intake phase.

I'm told that the B25 will run w/o this pickup and that maybe the phase (first 180deg or 2nd 180deg) of the bank fire is more "optimization" then critical. I don't know this to be a fact tho.

Related. Since I don't have much experience on the B27, can someone pls explain to me where there are two crank pos sensors on the flywheel? Why are two of them necessary? Why not just one?

[tig]

Thanks Ranger; great info. I is smarter now.

Unrelated question: I came across a set of brand new set of rocker arms for sale. I can get them for much less than they are for sale new on AutohausAZ.

Should I plan on replacing the rocker arms when the head is redone, or should I wait and see what the condition is?

[bimmerbill]

Here's an excellent write up on the E28 Motronics:

http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Motronic.htm

Unless you have worn out or broken rockers, I would save the $$$ for something else. The most vulnerable parts on the head are the rails. If you end up having to pound them out, they'll need to be replaced.

The extra wire on the plug wires IS unnecessary. Get yourself some Magnecore, too.

[RangerGress]

Here's an excellent write up on the E28 Motronics:

http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Motronic.htm

Unless you have worn out or broken rockers, I would save the $$$ for something else. The most vulnerable parts on the head are the rails. If you end up having to pound them out, they'll need to be replaced.

The extra wire on the plug wires IS unnecessary. Get yourself some Magnecore, too.

That Motronic link is really good, thanks a lot.

[tig]

Started yanking stuff off the engine this evening. Just obvious stuff like PS pump and alternator.



Other than taking lots of pictures and storing hardware in labeled baggies, is there any order we should be following? Just rip stuff off in the obvious way?



For example, per the picture above, in order to remove the LHS engine mount, the oil filter assembly has to be removed. But once I remove that I'm at the point where I'm exposing the lower end to potential contamination for the first time. Should I remove it just long enough to pull the mount off, and then put it back on so that the bottom-end stays sealed up?

Likewise for the water pump. Once I remove it, stuff can get in there... Not sure what the right strategy for this is.

Now that she's on the stand and rotated vertically, and the RHS mount has been removed I can verify that this motor will NOT work in an E28 without an adapter. Right? This is disappointing as we were hoping that since this was from an early E32 it would have the E28 bosses per the M30B35 FAQ.



Here's some better pics of the wiring harness...

[tig]

Plowing ahead...

Sometime this week after work I will give the motor a bath to get as much gunk off as possible before removing the manifolds, oil pan, head, etc... I got pretty much everything off that doesn't leave an internal exposed and then masked off things I'd rather not get gunk/water in.

Good enough? Or should I be even more careful? (Not sure what else I can do...)

[bimmerbill]

What is the plan for cleaning the block? What are you going to use? I haven't found anything that works well. Those degreasers that foam just don't seem to work, and you could spend a fortune on brake cleaner.

Also, it's pretty obvious that you have a leak at the front seal. The crank bolt is torqued to around 300ftlbs. You better start figuring out how you're going to remove it.

The first problem is fashioning a way to prevent the crank from turning. The way I did it was to remove the engine from the stand, and lay it on a pallet. I then got a very stout piece of aluminum, drilled a hole to bolt it to the block, and another hole to bolt it to the crank.

Next you'll need the proper size socket. I found a 1&7/16" socket at a pawn shop for cheap. It's gotten a lot of use over the years.

With the motor on the ground, the crank immobilized, the proper socket and cheater bar, stand on the motor while your son muscles it off.

I just removed one from an M44 318i motor and didn't have to remove it from the engine stand, but even then it looked scary.

Some will tell you that air tools will work, but I've never seen it happen on a big six.

Also, while it is on the ground, remove the R & R the rear seal. Once you put the motor back on the engine stand, you won't be able to get to it. If this is a 5-Speed, you might also consider R & R on the pilot bearing before putting it back on the stand.

[_marshall]

Unfortunately you've missed your chance to take the crank nut off while the engine was mounted, but it's definitely still doable.

Check around your area to see if someone has the BMW-issed crank nut tool, or fab one yourself if you're so inclined.

How I got mine off was with 3 things: the crank nut tool, wedged against the floor of my garage with a 3 ft cheater bar on it. A breaker bar with the appropriate socket was fitted with another 6 ft cheater bar attached. I pulled like hell on the breaker bar side of it, which eventually got the nut to come loose.


As for order of taking things off, just make sure your labeling system is easily-readable and consistent. The insides of plastic bags will often get disgusting with oil and other residue left on the bots, so masking tape + sharpie is a good idea. It also doesn't hurt to make a run to your local scrap yard to fetch spare fasteners in case you break one, any of them are stripped, or you lose one.

edit: seconded on wondering how you're going to clean the block. Hitting it with a power washer probably would work well. I ended up using some wire wheels, brake cleaner, naval jelly... all kinds of things.

[tig]

Not sure how, but I have a socket that fits the crank nut. I think it was from my work on my '78 FJ40. It's a 3/8" socket.

I guess you are telling me that my air powered impact wrench is not going to get it to move? I assumed that once I had the oil pan off, I would be able to do something with the crankshaft to prevent it from turning and then just use the impact wrench...

But, you are now making me think this won't work because the torque required is too high and I'll wrench the thing off the engine stand before it gives?

For cleaning the engine, at this point I just want to get it generally clean. Once I have the head off I will go at it to get it spotless in prep for painting. I'll, of course, have to leave the oil pan on for that, but I can mask the top. Right?

[Rav335uk]

Crank bolt is doable while on the engine stand.
I heated the bolt up and cranked it with a long extension bar, then used an impact gun to undo it as it was still tight.

Also, while your doing the top, check the banjo bolts on the Oil rail, they are known to undo themselves causing Oil starvation to the rear of the head.
The best way to over come that is to slightly crush the Oil rail in a vice between to sockets, only so to cause a slight restriction, thus increasing oil pressure to the feed to the head.

[_marshall]

Ohhhh, I didn't have access to an impact gun when I did mine. Carry on.

[tig]

Here's the results of the initial cleaning. Came out real good and wasn't hard to do at all. Took me about 90 minutes.

As I said before once I take the rest of the parts off the block, oil pan, etc... will get a like-new cleaning and refinishing.









I used this and some scrub brushes. Let it soak for a few minutes, scrubbed, rinsed with water, repeated as needed.



Lastly, I sprayed this awesome stuff in the bolt holes in the block, around the rear seal/belhousing, and a little down the injector holes to just make sure any water got displaced.

[tig]

A little more progress.

Got the water pump, thermostat, and disty off.



I already have a new water pump. Need to add bolts for it to my list as the the old ones are too nasty, even if I were to clean them I can tell I won't be happy.

Also pulled exhaust manifolds. In about half the cases the bolts came off the studs. In the other half the studs came out. I'll replace all the studs with new ones.



Gonna wait until my son can help me before I do any more. I'm getting too far ahead without him :-(

[estebanayala]

she's looking great, keep up the good work!

[AlpinaE24]

Looks great

[tig]

Looks great

Thanks. I have to say that even though I knew from past experience it would clean up, it was so damn ugly that I secretly worried that it would be beyond salvage.

The real test though is when I pull the head off... Then we'll know if the foundation is good enough to re-build on (for my standards). I'm betting it is.

[tig]

FWIW, I added a reference section to the first post of this thread with links to all the info I am referencing as i proceed.

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?p=1152889#1152889

[tig]

Ohhhh, I didn't have access to an impact gun when I did mine. Carry on.

Well the impact wrench aint budging it. Even with a breaker bar I'm unable to get it to move. Sadly my 36mm socket is of the 3/8" type and my 1/2" to 3/8" socket adapter snapped while trying with a breaker bar. It was a cheap Chinese thing anyway.

I've soaked it (for days) with PB Blaster.

What's the right technique for heating a nut like this up? Will a heat gun provide enough heat? Or do I need a torch?

[tig]

Another question:

Bentleys is not clear on how to remove the distributor rotor adapter & dust shield. It shows another motor that does not appear to have the dust shield, and they are taking the 7mm hex key bolt out after the head's been removed.

As far as I can tell I can't get the head off until I remove the timing chain covers and I can't remove those until I remove this bolt (and the crank nut).

Can I just pull this bolt off now?

And it's not a reverse threaded bolt is it? I tried loosening it with a largish hex key and couldn't get it to budge!

[Rav335uk]

You need to remove the timing case bolts out too, then pull the lot, that's how I did mine on the E34 lump.

Also, the crank nut will need quite alot of heat on it, then it should crack.

[RangerGress]

In e30 circles we call the big bolt on the front of the crank the "Jesus nut". As in jesus christ it's hard to turn. Here's how I R/R them. http://spece30.com/forum/31-southeast/6 ... =160#64848

You'll need a spare harmonic balancer and some angle iron. Since your engine is on a stand, you can use a long piece of angle iron on the harmonic balancer such that the bar of angle iron hits the ground.

Just be careful when you turn hard on the Jesus nut. Watch the engine stand closely so you can back off if it starts to tip.

Re. exhaust studs. If you're a cheapskate like me, re-use them. Soak them in penetrant, double-nut them to get the old nut off, then put them back in.

Generic thought on putting fasteners in. This idea is obvious to guys that have been doing this a while but it's a new idea for non "old salts". Always be aware of the material that you are putting a bolt into. So before you thread a bolt into AL, tell yourself "that's AL, go easy". Same for cast iron because it's not as strong a steel either. When you put a bolt into AL, go a little easy on the torque and use some blue threadlock. When there's oil on the bolt or in the hole, go a little easy on the torque, or clean off the oil with brake-clean.

When there's oil in the threads you get more stress on the threads at lower torque values. This is because the oil reduces friction. So oil on the threads can help you strip out threads due to over-torquing. A little oil on a 6mm bolt going into AL won't handle squat worth of fastening-torque, for example.

"go a little easy" means going on the low side of the torque recommendation, or maybe 5% under.

After a while this sort of thing will become automatic, but in the early days a person will create real problems for themselves by stripping out some bolt holes because they were insufficiently cautious.

[tig]

In e30 circles we call the big bolt on the front of the crank the "Jesus nut". As in jesus christ it's hard to turn. Here's how I R/R them. http://spece30.com/forum/31-southeast/6 ... =160#64848

You'll need a spare harmonic balancer and some angle iron. Since your engine is on a stand, you can use a long piece of angle iron on the harmonic balancer such that the bar of angle iron hits the ground.

Just be careful when you turn hard on the Jesus nut. Watch the engine stand closely so you can back off if it starts to tip.

Good tip. Thanks!

Generic thought on putting fasteners in. This idea is obvious to guys that have been doing this a while but it's a new idea for non "old salts". Always be aware of the material that you are putting a bolt into. So before you thread a bolt into AL, tell yourself "that's AL, go easy". Same for cast iron because it's not as strong a steel either. When you put a bolt into AL, go a little easy on the torque and use some blue threadlock. When there's oil on the bolt or in the hole, go a little easy on the torque, or clean off the oil with brake-clean.

When there's oil in the threads you get more stress on the threads at lower torque values. This is because the oil reduces friction. So oil on the threads can help you strip out threads due to over-torquing. A little oil on a 6mm bolt going into AL won't handle squat worth of fastening-torque, for example.

"go a little easy" means going on the low side of the torque recommendation, or maybe 5% under.

After a while this sort of thing will become automatic, but in the early days a person will create real problems for themselves by stripping out some bolt holes because they were insufficiently cautious.

This is precisely the kind of wisdom that I hoped to elicit in this thread. I actually happen to know this already, given I learned the hard way when I rebuilt my '78 FJ40's suspension, but it is great advice.

[tig]

Picture time.

Everything looks to be in great shape to my uneducated eye. Please chime in if you see anything scary looking. Remember, I'm assuming the bottom-end does not need a rebuild.