And so it starts, Maeve

[gwb72tii]

good news bad news

Well after getting the proper parts, namely a 1/2 by 5/16 brass barbed reducer, which allowed the proper fuel hose size to attach to the fuel filter, more more fuel leaks. Good news!

Bad news is the drivability problem we had driving north from Mesa has not gone away. I'll come back to this problem in the coming months as the car runs well enough that I can limp to local shops for estimates on body work and painting. I need to get estimates and a schedule of where/when I can deliver the car to the body shop. My Audi will go off lease at the end of June and my plan is to have the 535is complete by then. My backup is my 2002tii but I really don't want to daily drive that car.

Here I am doing a short two step polish with polishing compounds I had in my garage from a few years ago. I am hoping that I will not need a complete replay of the car


here you can see just how much oxidized paint is being removed with a pretty mild polishing compound. AZ sun is hell on car paint.


and this is a picture of the hood areas, one polished for about 10 minutes and the middle hood area untouched. The photo doesn't capture the true improvement of my expert polishing efforts (HAHA).


So now off to local body shops for an estimate. I really do not want to spend a lot on body work and paint as I have a total budget in mind for this car. But I am mentally prepared, sort of, to have to spend more than I anticipated. I do want the car to look nice, and I do not want to disassemble the car again in the future to paint it.

[garageboy]

Looks much improved. Congratulations.

Personally, before I attempted something like that, because it is single-stage (not 2-stage metallic), you know because of the paint on the rag and pad, I would get a paint meter on that paint to know how much is there. If you take off too much, you won't have a choice about a respray.

And those grills on the hood pop out trivially. I'd remove them before doing this. No taping necessary. Good luck!

[gwb72tii]

hardly polished the paint as I said, and the hood is going to need to be repainted regardless. I plan on painting the louvers black when all is said and done, unless there is a better way to make them look new?

[Blue Shadow]

Krylon satin black or some like SEM but Crest is even better. Anyway the car could use a can or two. www.e38.org/e28 has a pile of project links, a pile of dead links and other info. Mirrors for non-88is or M5 cars are refreshed with satin black as are the grilles, rocker panels and sections between the side windows, wiper arm, attachment nut covers and squirter nozzles and under hood parts, too.

Crest is not easy to find maybe direct from manufacturer. A for the trade product. Loved using that stuff. Might be worth getting a case of cans.

[SeattleGuy]

Best of luck and fun on your project. I miss my tii greatly but E28 is a fine DD. If you need parts you can't find here let me know. I'm just doing little things as I go and except for the rear subframe bushings I would drive my car across Country in a heartbeat.... except I don't want the miles LOL.

[gwb72tii]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The great thing about forums like this one is that pretty much whatever you run into with your own car, someone somewhere has had the same issue and solved the problem.

[Mdreamer]

Personally, before I attempted something like that, because it is single-stage (not 2-stage metallic), you know because of the paint on the rag and pad, I would get a paint meter on that paint to know how much is there. If you take off too much, you won't have a choice about a respray.

This is what happened to my paint some years ears back when my father had the car "buffed" multiple times in a short time span.

I agree that your results look very good compared to the state of the car before your efforts. Thanks for keeping us posted!

[gwb72tii]

Looks much improved. Congratulations.

Personally, before I attempted something like that, because it is single-stage (not 2-stage metallic), you know because of the paint on the rag and pad, I would get a paint meter on that paint to know how much is there. If you take off too much, you won't have a choice about a respray.

And those grills on the hood pop out trivially. I'd remove them before doing this. No taping necessary. Good luck!

Thanks for the help as I've never heard of a paint meter before. The only other car I've had painted is my tii and it didn't mater how much paint was on the car as it was basically stripped down to the factory primer before painting.

I am very much a babe in the woods with some things and competent in other things.

With this car, it is very much going to be a daily driver and not a concours type of car. I do appreciate things being done correctly the first time so with the paint, I'll do what is necessary to have the car look good, and as it should. I anticipate finding some rust perhaps under the front and rear windshield gaskets, and hope that's it.

[gwb72tii]

More good news!

I've come up with what I think is a proper name for my car.

My heritage is German/Scottish, and I've settled on one of two names, both Gaelic:

Maeve
Origin: Gaelic, Irish
Meaning: Intoxicating woman
This is what a car should be, no?

or

Kade
Origin: Gaelic, Scottish
Meaning: From the wetlands
(since I live in the PNW where it is wet pretty much all the time)

Edit: Maeve it is, thinking I like the idea of a car being named after a girl, like a boat should be. This is the only car I have owned so far that has a name.

[wkohler]

As much as it will hurt initially to do it, you should plan to paint the whole car. Do it once do it right. I would also recommend going for the single stage paint (which will lower your potential shops that will do it) over the waterborne base/clear options. That’s more personal preference to me since the original paint was single stage and I don’t like how the red looks under the clear compared to an original. Add to that various issues the car does have which all seem fine together, when you put new paint in one area it will magnify the faults, particularly with laser straight bodywork on the areas you have addressed.

Going over it with the buffer as you have will certainly make it look better and inspire you (it does to me all the time) but that car has already been burned through on the edges in spots to bare metal by a kid who thought he could double the price of the car in a weekend with a buffer when in reality all he did was do damage. For a daily driver that could still be perfectly fine as the paint is largely original. Just keep it protected and it should retain its shine for a good amount of time. When that car is fully polished though the color difference on the driver door does dissipate.

Paint meters are helpful tools when used properly in a case like this mostly for comparison across the car but once the paint gets thin all bets are off. It is tougher to get a feel for paint with the single stage over a base/clear since the clear layer is the majority of the millage. They are excellent at determining if the car has had work done.

Also if you plan to keep the Euro bumpers you should take the opportunity to really finish the conversion. I wouldn’t bother changing the tail panel, just fill the holes. Tail panel is a lot of work to do it right and then you have to fix the exhaust because the pipes don’t line up.

[gwb72tii]

Thanks Chris.

I'm a big believer in doing things correctly the first time instead of half way. And in looking at the areas the PO over-polished its pretty obvious that with the amount of feathering that would need to be done when respraying different areas of the car that you might as well go ahead and respray the entire body.

Can you or anyone explain the difference between single stage paints and other types? My intent would be to use Glasurit as it came from the factory.

One big regret I have is when I refinished the tii I own. The shop used a Dupont based paint that spec'd to Colorado, the original color of the car. It came out a darker shade than Glasurit Colorado. Steve Petersen (Blunt) and I had our cars side by side at Vintage at the Vineyards and mine looked like Inca, until I parked my car by an Inca car. His had been painted with Glasurit. Now to get it correct I'd have to completely disassemble the car once again and have it painted correctly.

[garageboy]

I am a paint snob. Surprise, surprise.

Glasurit 55 is the best product to use when going basecoat/clearcoat painting on E28s. It's called 2-stage because the first mils (1 mil = 1/1000th inch) are put down in basecoat, then the robot mixes base and clear for a spin or two around the car, and then it paints only clear.

BMW spec is between 4 and 6.5 mils for everything. To be clear (haha, punny), that includes primer, of course.

It might seem sensible that more paint is better, but then it can have more trouble sticking, and may be more susceptible to chipping.

Single-stage paints, like schwarz (black) and Alpineweiss (white) and cinnabarrot (red) do not have clearcoat. Clearcoat is very strong, and for folks that run their cars through the carwash, it's a fine option. With single stage, the color is throughout, which is why you see it on your buffer wheel. But the ability to bring the paint back, if it is in good condition, is mind-boggling. My detailer did my car when I bought it in 2010, and it's due for his magic again, twelve years later, and it looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor when he's done. That's simply not possible with a two-stage paint. Come to think of it, I'm not sure what lacquer-based single-stage paint the resto shop used... let me find out...

As Chris points out, there are few places that will shoot single-stage anymore. When I needed it on one panel, I went to a restoration shop. It was worth every penny because the paint is in such good condition that it's nearly impossible to see any difference. Only paint nerds like me and Chris can tell.

Yes, a paint meter is a truth-teller. I found mine on eBay years ago at a sick discount. They're cheaper now and more available. It's a great investment. When I look at a car for a friend, it's the most important tool in my toolbox.

[gwb72tii]

Well finally I got some terrific news. I think.

A friend of mine has run a car repair shop close by for 30 years and is very particular about his cars. He referred me to a body shop close by and I just talked to the owner. He's perfectly ok with Glasurit single stage paints, has been in the business for 40+ years and just completed a full 7 bay workshop on his 15 acres after "retiring" from his previous employer. His estimated cost is about 1/2 of what other shops have talked about. He's 2 months out which gives me time to disassemble the car before trailering it too him.

hooray!

[Blue Shadow]

That is a good way to get a nice paint job, use someone who is doing work on the side at home or in your case instead of at an employer, starting out on his own but that 7 bays is a bit more than most of the good places in the east, out buildings in the sticks with folks that can lay down a great coat of paint and don't get concerned with the need to use the most modern stuff.

[Mdreamer]

As someone who is set to get his car painted soon, the direction this conversation has gone in has been very helpful. I love this forum!

[Mike W.]

Prices for painting are just crazy. I guess it just costs what it costs, I'm not aware of a bunch of wealthy, retired body shop owners, but jeez, it's just so much. I checked with a local place, not high end, not chain, just the local body shop, to repaint the hood on my Datsun where the clear I'd applied had shrunk. A quick sand, maybe a touch of primer touch up, base and clear on a hood, super easy masking etc, was $900. I said, "Thank you for your time on the estimate, but I think I'll pass." Maybe they just weren't interested? WTF would a whole car be?

[gwb72tii]

I have been getting estimates starting at $15k, and from more than just one shop. That has me excited about the guy I was just referred to whose estimate is about $6k, but I expect that number to rise with some of the required body work needed. I’d hesitate to use this guy because his estimate is so low, but my friend who referred me is very anal about his cars and has used this guy for a long time. Maybe being in business for himself, not working as an employee for someone else, allows him to be paid better while charging less?

Mind you I will be trailering and delivering the car to him completely disassembled, all the glass/trim/interior/headliner/ everything removed. All the body guy will have to do is tape off the engine bay and wiring harnesses before working on the car. That alone is a time consuming job.

[John in VA]

Prices for painting are just crazy. I guess it just costs what it costs, I'm not aware of a bunch of wealthy, retired body shop owners, but jeez, it's just so much.

Handymen are charging $100/hr here. What skills does that require vs. bodywork/painting?

[garageboy]

I have been getting estimates starting at $15k, and from more than just one shop. That has me excited about the guy I was just referred to whose estimate is about $6k, but I expect that number to rise with some of the required body work needed. I’d hesitate to use this guy because his estimate is so low, but my friend who referred me is very anal about his cars and has used this guy for a long time. Maybe being in business for himself, not working as an employee for someone else, allows him to be paid better while charging less?

Mind you I will be trailering and delivering the car to him completely disassembled, all the glass/trim/interior/headliner/ everything removed. All the body guy will have to do is tape off the engine bay and wiring harnesses before working on the car. That alone is a time consuming job.

First of all, kudos to you for considering carefully how to proceed. We're all a bit OCD here, and when it comes to painting and prepping cars for paint, OCD is a good thing.

I think you need to ask, clearly, his hourly rate. The reason is simple: is his price low because he is incorrectly estimating the number of hours it will take to properly prepare the car for paint (this is the biggest labor expense), which would be bad, or is his price low because he is, as you point out, newly in business for himself and doesn't have the overhead yet so he can charge a great rate, which would be a huge bonus for you, and likely the reason you should go with him. But you absolutely need to know that to make an informed decision, right?

I could wax on about my decision to restore an Opel Manta back in 1985 (it was a 74), but let's just say, I never even came close to finishing and I learned a valuable and expensive lesson when I donated the entire project to an electric car company in the mid 1990s -- that car restoration is an elephant I can not eat small pieces at a time. I can preserve an E28 that came to me in factory original condition, like I'm doing now with my daily driver E28, but I'm not the guy to take it completely apart and ever get it back together again. You have to have the brain (and camera shots) to disassemble that and reassemble it months/years later.

Back to your situation. The more you do that the bodyshop guy DOESN'T have to do will save you money. And that's another thing my attempted restoration taught me. I can remove the windshield and trim. I am NOT the guy to install it in the way it needs to be installed to ensure it won't leak, crack, or otherwise. With hope, you ARE that guy. Hope this answers your questions a bit...

[gwb72tii]

Appreciate your input and advice.

I would have done the motor myself but I’m still running a business that demands a fair amount of time. I know I can remove/install a motor and tranny etc, and can do the trim pieces as long as their design is not light years removed from my tii. That is a car I took apart and put back together, including the motor, some years ago. My first BMW was a 1970 2002, 1 barrel carb, that hooked me into working on cars. I rebuilt that motor in 1978 and it ran like an electric motor, no vibration all then way to redline. I miss that car.

What I don’t know how to do is bodywork. It’s your advice and others re single stage paint that I have no knowledge of and appreciate what you and others have to say. I will have a eye ball to eye ball conversation with this body guy about what to expect. In our only conversation he mentioned a few things, like painting older Porsches with single stage paint that gives me some confidence he knows his craft.

[gwb72tii]

I could use a little help from you that have done the euro bumper/front valance installation.
Looking at pics from cek's install, the front valance on my car is different than the part installed on cek's
is this a euro valance?


and then these brackets were used to hold the front bumper on. Any idea who made these?


The installation done on these parts leaves a lot to be desired. One more thing to correct added to the list.

One pet peeve of mine is oil/fluid leaks. Hate them. Fortunately this car has the typical 31 year old power steering fluid leak, but no oil from the oil pan or diff. I plan on refreshing all of the power steering bits so that should take care of the leak.

[gwb72tii]

A little good news to go with the not so good news.
The suspension bits are H&R/Bilstein, so now I don't need to purchase these parts, plus the PIO installed stainless steel brake lines. hooray.

[wkohler]

That’s a Taxi valance with the rip-offs of the guten parts brackets. The original bracket design was done with a US valance so he never factored in for the smaller opening for the stock bumper brackets on the Euro valance. They just hacked that out here. Was an incomplete install anyway. Would be easy to go back to the stock bumpers if you wanted.

535is was originally equipped with Bilsteins so it would be a good idea to verify they are somewhat recent. They haven’t made black H&Rs in several years.

[gwb72tii]

Honestly Chris my plan was to install euro bumpers on whatever car I purchased.
How bad is this? Do I need to get the oem parts?

I think I'll leave the springs/shocks on until I get a chance to drive it. The way we limped home from Mesa there was never a chance to push it. Changing out the shock and springs later is a pretty easy job.

[wkohler]

The valance is an OE part as I don’t think they’ve been selling aftermarket copies of that. I prefer the other style of course. You can cut the openings out of the one you have as well but I’d recommend replacing it. There are lots of aftermarket ones floating around and they don’t fit well (some even here advertise them as though they’re real), so avoid those. They don’t fit the fender properly and have a crappy paint on them instead of a true e-coat like factory parts. Honestly that bracket design is the simplest thing you’re going to get compared to actually getting the front of the frame rails from a Euro car. Perhaps that Russian kid would do that for you but it is a lot of work to get to them. If you replace the valance you will have to make the same modification to use the brackets you already have, just do it more cleanly. Unless someone really looks at it, they’ll never know.