SOLVED: Flywheel reference pin sheered off..

[Shawn D.]

If it's in park, the output shaft will not turn. If you want to note which end of travel is park, move the shift lever to park, then to "1" and it should be evident.

[41magfan]

I’ve done dozens of trans removals and I would never use red loctite on a flex plate or flywheel bolt. Always blue and never had one come loose..red in all my years ( and that’s a bunch ) only gets used on the crank nut of a big 6

[blockerb]

interesting...i've seen both recommendations. Haynes recommends only "thread locking compound" not blue or red specifically. Just ordered a bentley manual so will see what that says. Haynes also states torques spec for the Flexplate (or driveplate as they seem to refer to it) to be 77 ft lbs.

[gadget73]

If these are drilled all the way through, the thread locker is probably there more as a sealer than to keep the bolts from coming out. Without it there is a path for oil to wick around the threads and sling out from under the bolt head. Make sure the holes and the bolts are clean and free of oil otherwise the thread locker is not going to do anything. A honk of solvent to flush it all out works well.

[Mike W.]

I’ve done dozens of trans removals and I would never use red loctite on a flex plate or flywheel bolt. Always blue and never had one come loose..red in all my years ( and that’s a bunch ) only gets used on the crank nut of a big 6

Well, maybe you have had success not using it, but the factory manual says to use Locktite 270, which is red.

[blockerb]

I’ve done dozens of trans removals and I would never use red loctite on a flex plate or flywheel bolt. Always blue and never had one come loose..red in all my years ( and that’s a bunch ) only gets used on the crank nut of a big 6

Well, maybe you have had success not using it, but the factory manual says to use Locktite 270, which is red.

That's really interesting. I'm particularly interested in the step that says to drill a hole in the flexplate to make removal easier. Not sure i understand that logic, the next steps is a bit vague to me. Not that i'm gonna do it, but it's interesting nonetheless:)

[Mike W.]

That's really interesting. I'm particularly interested in the step that says to drill a hole in the flexplate to make removal easier. Not sure i understand that logic, the next steps is a bit vague to me. Not that i'm gonna do it, but it's interesting nonetheless:)

No, that's for replacing the ring gear, not the flexplate.

At one time ring gears were available separately, although to confuse things there were 2 different diameters, at least on M30 cars. But you could (theoretically) replace just the ring gear, if needed. And I once had one fail on an E12. At I'm sure the compression points, the ring gear was worn down to practically nothing. So out of curiosity, I decided to try to remove it, after I'd already changed the flywheel, and sure enough, the technique worked. Now to install the new ring gear you had to freeze the flywheel and heat the ring gear to a certain temp and I'm sure you got one shot to get it on and seated, but it was theoretically possible.

[blockerb]

ok, so i got the transmission out, and got a replacement flexplate from ebay and that's installed now with red locktite. took the opportunity to pull the ATF pan and change the filter and replacement the gasket and clean it all up. i'll probably go ahead and pull the oil pand and replace that gasket and install a replacement oil pump that i've had for some time now before i put it all back together.

So when I go to attach the transmission back to the engine, from what i've read here, i need to go ahead and get the torque converted situated onto the splined part of the transmission before trying to attach it to the engine. Seems maybe easier that way since there are a couple splined sections and then the "keyed" section further back to get it fully seated.

[41magfan]

THE factory manual would also not suggest using e32 750 thrust arm bushings as well , I guess to each his own, i just don't want to possbily have to resort to heat to remove a ring gear or flywheel bolt, As I said, i've been doing this for 40 years and have had 100% success using blue, oh well

I am also reminded of the factory's soft as butter crank hub failing , so there is that, oh well..cheers

[Mike W.]

So when I go to attach the transmission back to the engine, from what i've read here, i need to go ahead and get the torque converted situated onto the splined part of the transmission before trying to attach it to the engine. Seems maybe easier that way since there are a couple splined sections and then the "keyed" section further back to get it fully seated.

Yes, the splines are easy, the notch is difficult. It's got to go in, one, easy, two, easy, then the third you're swearing it doesn't happen. It does. Patience, perseverance, it will happen even though it doesn't seem like it. But if you don't, or if it slips out, you'll trash the tranny. But you'll know it when it does go in.

You may even want to bolt a bracket, just for temp, to keep the converter in place, then remove it once it's close to being in place. A guy 2 doors down from me who does more side work than some shops, tells tales of all the people who haven't done it right. Says one guy broke 3 trannys before he took it to him.

[blockerb]

Yes, the splines are easy, the notch is difficult. It's got to go in, one, easy, two, easy, then the third you're swearing it doesn't happen. It does. Patience, perseverance, it will happen even though it doesn't seem like it. But if you don't, or if it slips out, you'll trash the tranny. But you'll know it when it does go in.

You may even want to bolt a bracket, just for temp, to keep the converter in place, then remove it once it's close to being in place. A guy 2 doors down from me who does more side work than some shops, tells tales of all the people who haven't done it right. Says one guy broke 3 trannys before he took it to him.

so to confirm the torque converter is already inside the bellhousing when I am jacking/raising it up to meet the back of the engine. The "bracket" or whatever, is to hold the torque converter on the "splined/keyed" section while i'm moving it around to get the "male" endo of the torque converter into its spot?

I recall i had to work a little to get the torque converter off the engine when i removed the bellhousing, like it was stuck. Should i expected some considerable effort/force to get it seated? seems straightforward as the center "male" part seems like it just has to match up and get pushed in?

[blockerb]

Yes, the splines are easy, the notch is difficult. It's got to go in, one, easy, two, easy, then the third you're swearing it doesn't happen. It does. Patience, perseverance, it will happen even though it doesn't seem like it. But if you don't, or if it slips out, you'll trash the tranny. But you'll know it when it does go in.

You may even want to bolt a bracket, just for temp, to keep the converter in place, then remove it once it's close to being in place. A guy 2 doors down from me who does more side work than some shops, tells tales of all the people who haven't done it right. Says one guy broke 3 trannys before he took it to him.

so to confirm the torque converter is already inside the bellhousing when I am jacking/raising it up to meet the back of the engine. The "bracket" or whatever, is to hold the torque converter on the "splined/keyed" section while i'm moving it around to get the "male" endo of the torque converter into its spot?

I recall i had to work a little to get the torque converter off the engine when i removed the bellhousing, like it was stuck. Should i expected some considerable effort/force to get it seated? seems straightforward as the center "male" part seems like it just has to match up and get pushed in?

To answer my own question i found this youtube video. Its for E39 but very similar and addresses the "three stage" process to get the converter seated correctly to avoid damage. I just did it and definitely too a few tries but i got in on correctly and now know exactly what it should feel and look like. Once i got on correctly there was no wobble or movement and the converter didn't spin freely anymore. It did rotate but only with some intentional effort but not freely and loose.

https://youtu.be/coYEy7omLP4

[Mike W.]

I recall i had to work a little to get the torque converter off the engine when i removed the bellhousing, like it was stuck. Should i expected some considerable effort/force to get it seated? seems straightforward as the center "male" part seems like it just has to match up and get pushed in?

Good, it sounds like you have the feel of it down and know where it's supposed to go. The pin on the end of the converter is a fairly tight fit into the end of the crankshaft as it needs to be well located so prevent out of balance since it's turning at engine speed. It's been a long time since I've done one, but while I have had to lever them out some, seems like they go in without too much extra effort.

[gadget73]

this notch thing you're speaking of, is that the slot on the back end of the torque converter snout? Guessing thats what drives the pump ?

[Mike W.]

this notch thing you're speaking of, is that the slot on the back end of the torque converter snout? Guessing thats what drives the pump ?

Correct. On other makes I've also seen flats rather than a notch.

[blockerb]

I recall i had to work a little to get the torque converter off the engine when i removed the bellhousing, like it was stuck. Should i expected some considerable effort/force to get it seated? seems straightforward as the center "male" part seems like it just has to match up and get pushed in?

Good, it sounds like you have the feel of it down and know where it's supposed to go. The pin on the end of the converter is a fairly tight fit into the end of the crankshaft as it needs to be well located so prevent out of balance since it's turning at engine speed. It's been a long time since I've done one, but while I have had to lever them out some, seems like they go in without too much extra effort.

While i've got this thing out, i'm considering going ahead and looking into the A-clutch fix. I've found a couple posts and a pretty useful site from one post that walks through the process with pretty detailed pictures. Do i need to just replace the clutch pack outright or is there something to look for that would indicate it needed to be replaced. I found a place called Superior Transmission that i think makes the seal replacement kit. I think they might sell it through Transtar here in Georgia. Have to call and find out. Not sure where to source the clutch pack. Any sources or other good info?

I may be crossing the line into needing to start another post....I'm still gonna keep updating on the flywheel reference pin though once i get the tranny back on and hopefully its running again.

[Mike W.]

While i've got this thing out, i'm considering going ahead and looking into the A-clutch fix. I've found a couple posts and a pretty useful site from one post that walks through the process with pretty detailed pictures. Do i need to just replace the clutch pack outright...

No, replacing the clutch pack is not the solution. Now I'm out of my field of expertise here having only read about it. But the problem is the A clutch pack is pressurized or loaded when shifted into D, but not unloaded when shifted into P or N. The solution is something along the lines of drilling a hole somewhere, maybe the shaft, maybe not, and changing the seal to a new type so it unloads pressure when shifted into P or N. You might want to do the A clutch pack if you're in there, but it's the result, not the cause of the problem.

[gadget73]

I think the hole gets drilled in the piston so that any slight leakage just bleeds out through the hole rather than building pressure and slowly applying the clutch, but when it gets full pressure its not enough of a hole to bleed enough pressure to bother anything.


If its worn, then you may as well replace the clutch pack if its in your hand but just replacing the clutches doesn't fix it.

[blockerb]

I think the hole gets drilled in the piston so that any slight leakage just bleeds out through the hole rather than building pressure and slowly applying the clutch, but when it gets full pressure its not enough of a hole to bleed enough pressure to bother anything.


If its worn, then you may as well replace the clutch pack if its in your hand but just replacing the clutches doesn't fix it.

Yeah I’ve found the following and have found a couple places to source the kit(Teflon seals, drill bit, and sanding buffers wheel). But not sure where to source the a-clutch pack. Found a couple places but it’s seems they come wither with a full rebuild kit or as separate disc/steel components and not sure which actual ones to get.

Also not sure where the forward clutch piston is to drill the hole.

[gadget73]

I've never done it and haven't been inside the trans either so I think we're both in the same boat as far as the specifics go. I'm not having issues with it, so I probably won't learn more until that happens. With some luck that will never happen.

[blockerb]

So after two months, I've got it all back together. Sourced a flexplate from ebay and pulled the drive shaft, tranny, and all the connecting bits. Got the flexplate installed and pulled the tranny apart to inspect the A clutch pack, which was in excellent condition. I also, replaced the suspect seal on the stator shaft with the "better" teflon version and put in a new transmission accelerator cable. Got it all back in after several weekends of intermittently working on it and it runs like a top and i even can tweak the accelerator cable for a little more pep!

I even was able to drop the oil pan and replace the gasket and the oil pump too while i had the transmission out!

So it was indeed the shorn off reference sensor on the flexplate.

Thanks to gadget73 for the pro tip on installing a new accelerator cable. This had me stumped for a minute when i was trying to adjust it with little success. Link to that post is here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=160744

Thanks all!

[Shawn D.]

Glad to hear it!

[tej98]

Hi, sorry to bump an old thread, but is it possible that the pin on the flywheel could be tacked back in place with a weld or even JB weld? Asking as I'm considering buying an E28 that may have this pin broken off (is also an auto). I see the auto flex plates have the pin welded to the side of the flex plate and not inside the edge of the flywheel like the manual cars do.

The only reason to do this temporarily would be to hear the car run before pulling the transmission for an in-depth service.

Thanks in advance, would appreciate any insight!

[Mike W.]

Hi, sorry to bump an old thread, but is it possible that the pin on the flywheel could be tacked back in place with a weld or even JB weld? Asking as I'm considering buying an E28 that may have this pin broken off (is also an auto). I see the auto flex plates have the pin welded to the side of the flex plate and not inside the edge of the flywheel like the manual cars do.

The only reason to do this temporarily would be to hear the car run before pulling the transmission for an in-depth service.

Thanks in advance, would appreciate any insight!

While anything's possible, the real answer is no. If a tab of steel welded on breaks, JB weld, and I like the stuff, but JB weld is not going to work. As far as welding something on, well, possible, but keep in mind it's got to be located fairly precisely in order to generate the pulse thru magnetism for the ECU to do it's thing.

In the real world, the answer is no.