I guess I didn't get my point across. I was just saying that option one is to build the correct car. Barring that, do whatever but I'd keep the correct parts with the car if at all possible. Fortunately, Ian has the lions share of the stuff and who knows what he's got in that m30 until he opens it up.
Definitely true what you say about the motors. Your '83, Ian's, Adrian's all had issues and I'm sure there were others.
Operation: Parking Lot Hartge: Update 9/21/22, Back in the saddle
Last edited by wkohler on May 22, 2013 9:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Kyle in NO
- Posts: 17638
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- Location: Nasty Orleans------> Batten-Rooehjch------>More Souther LA
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TheE28Ranch
- Posts: 2046
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- Location: Marquette, MI
The hell what did I do? I lost my response. Wasted like 20 minutes of writing.Minotaur wrote:Well
I spoke with Greg on the phone for a bit. We had a pleasant conversation. Like I said, I look forward to his build. We also discussed the history of the head. If the head is reasonably slimmer than ideal, it seems any issue would go away with the pistons one would have to have made for a build anyway. A simple verification would confirm what dimensions are, and Greg is ok with that, obviously.
True, Ian (glad I know his name now) doesn't know exactly what's in there yet, does he? I am living vicariously over here, and enjoying it.wkohler wrote:I guess I didn't get my point across. I was just saying that option one is to build the correct car. Barring that, do whatever but I'd keep the correct parts with the car if at all possible. Fortunately, Ian has the lions share of the stuff and who knows what he's got in that m30 until he opens it up.
Definitely true what you say about the motors. Your '83, Ian's, Adrian's all had issues and I'm sure there were others.
Yeah, I was stupid for selling those parts in the first place. I'm keeping an eye peeled for a time machine, even if a full fresh engine build would be lotsa money anyway.
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TheE28Ranch
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The Por-15 process takes a bit longer than I thought, well, better to do it right.
Got some parts in. They still make the plug, but its plastic now. Oh well.
After 3 coats on the metal.
After this coat dries, gonna replace the sound deadener that I cut out, then 2 more coats over the whole area.
Got some parts in. They still make the plug, but its plastic now. Oh well.
After 3 coats on the metal.
After this coat dries, gonna replace the sound deadener that I cut out, then 2 more coats over the whole area.
Last edited by landspeed on Sep 21, 2022 10:48 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Finally got the clean carpet back in and new pedals and pads installed.
It's hard to tell but the carpet is faded on the tunnel.
I also got into the motor a bit and have good and bad news. I found zero compression on the front 3 cylinders, so I didn't check the rest. I did pull the intake and found that the 2.8 intake is ported(possible Hartge Part?) as well as well ported intake ports and larger looking valves. Gonna be a bitch to pull this head with those headers though.
It's hard to tell but the carpet is faded on the tunnel.
I also got into the motor a bit and have good and bad news. I found zero compression on the front 3 cylinders, so I didn't check the rest. I did pull the intake and found that the 2.8 intake is ported(possible Hartge Part?) as well as well ported intake ports and larger looking valves. Gonna be a bitch to pull this head with those headers though.
Last edited by landspeed on Sep 21, 2022 10:50 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Right, that's what I'm curious about. The intake has a mild port, but the head is heavily ported making me think the intake only is Hartge. The block is a 3.5 non L block and I can see a bit of rust in the cylinders through an open valve.wkohler wrote:Hartge used the 2.5/2.8 intakes and opened them up.
Some say that Hartge cams have an H stamped on them however, the cam in my head does not have it. A cam grinding shop can measure the lift and duration pretty easy, but it needs to come out.
Some also say that Hartge used a 292. lift and others quote a 282. Schrick makes a 282. but I haven't compared the durations from Schrick to Hartge.
Some also say that Hartge used a 292. lift and others quote a 282. Schrick makes a 282. but I haven't compared the durations from Schrick to Hartge.
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Tammer in Philly
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I think you're confusing lift and duration.gwade wrote:Some say that Hartge cams have an H stamped on them however, the cam in my head does not have it. A cam grinding shop can measure the lift and duration pretty easy, but it needs to come out.
Some also say that Hartge used a 292. lift and others quote a 282. Schrick makes a 282. but I haven't compared the durations from Schrick to Hartge.
Regardless, I thought Hartge M30s used a 284 degree cam. Blue Shadow can probably confirm.
-tammer
Finally pulled the exhaust and headers, still trying to determine if they are legit. They seem real but are modified with 2-bolt flanges.
They don't say Hartge anywhere, but it's an early car, maybe they weren't stamped then. All they have is a plate on each one with the number "99152".
Then I got the head off, bad news, kinda. Head bolts weren't as tight as expected. The head is pretty much a total loss. Could be warped, doesn't matter.
Block looks........ok, going to need lots of cleaning. The cylinder walls look fair but usable for now. I guess I'll throw my B35 head on there.
They don't say Hartge anywhere, but it's an early car, maybe they weren't stamped then. All they have is a plate on each one with the number "99152".
Then I got the head off, bad news, kinda. Head bolts weren't as tight as expected. The head is pretty much a total loss. Could be warped, doesn't matter.
Block looks........ok, going to need lots of cleaning. The cylinder walls look fair but usable for now. I guess I'll throw my B35 head on there.
Last edited by landspeed on Sep 21, 2022 10:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Thought I would chime in here since I have owned 2 Hartge H5S's. One that I bought new in 1983 and of course what I guess is now called "Trey's car". My first H5S was a bit unusual as it was produced before Hartge started with their front and rear spoilers and wheels. It was Polaris with Mocha comfort seats. Also, it was not a Performance Plus import. It did have the Hartge stamped oil cooler, 2.5/2.8 intake, Hartge stamped distributor, and head, c/r 5 spd, gauge pack, stripe set, springs, billies, and a 3:25 LSD. It came with the euro BBS front spoiler with tow hook covers, and a big BBS rubber rear spoiler with a grocery handle in the middle...kinda goofy! Also had a set of BBS RS.
The second H5S, most of you already know about. It had all of the aforementioned, but had the yellow springs and sways. Any other questions, please feel free to PM me about. Also, both cars had Hartge stamped on the head and Hartge welded to the headers.
The second H5S, most of you already know about. It had all of the aforementioned, but had the yellow springs and sways. Any other questions, please feel free to PM me about. Also, both cars had Hartge stamped on the head and Hartge welded to the headers.
I was trying to bust your balls, Chris....it workedIt's not offically referred to as Trey's car. LOL
On your Polaris car (btw, you wouldn't happen to have any photos anywhere, would you?), did they put Hartge emblems on the wheels like they did with the BBS RAs they used?
Sounds like a really cool car.
No malice here, just trying to make you sweat for a second.I don't have any photos of the car at all, and wish I did. I am still in touch with the guy that imported the car for me, and I will ask him if he has any. The BBS wheels, just had the standard cap on them. It was really a cool car and had an interesting history. It was imported my Albert Mardikian in 1983. If his name doesn't ring a bell, I will shed some light on him and his doings. In late 1979, Albert (Al) had a used car lot on Pacific Coast Highway in Newport Beach right where the Ferrari dealer is now. All he had on his lot were grey market cars and exotics! We used to roll up in my US spec e21 320i and drool at the Alpina B6, the 323i, Porsche Turbo, etc.
Well, around 1983 Al had been doing this federalization gig for quite some time and was paying a premium for the ritzy real estate. So, let's just say his greed took over and he started importing a ton of cars with his "new" clients money, he would then pick up the car from the port (they used to let you drive them to your shop), then he would send all of the pictures and paper work that he did on the last car in and get his D.O.T. and E.P.A. releases. He would also get all the money for the supposed "conversion"....but he wouldn't do the conversion!!! It took a while for people to realize that they didn't have anything on the car that they were charged for. So, the Feds showed up one day and gave good ole Al a set of matching bracelets. He ended up in Federal Prison.
Well, the Hartge H5S was one of the cars that he did the switcho change-o with the paper work. I had sold the car to some dork that somehow got it financed through his employer....Bank of America! Well, BofA fired him and he stopped making payments on the car. The Feds tracked the car down and confiscated it from the BofA impound yard and no one knows what happened to it. I would probably guess that they crushed the car.
Since the car didn't have smog equipment on it, the car hauled a$$. This was back in 83/84, but I could take a Ninja off the line and stay with him until he hit 3rd every time. It was hilarious watching the guy on the bike look over at me wondering what was still beside him!!!
So, yet another unhappy ending to very rare car in the U.S.
Maybe that 5 digit number is a good sign. I checked one of my NOS m20 pieces and it has a metal tag with Hartge and a paper tag with "18712 ACHTERSTE HELFT" (Dutch for some reason).landspeed wrote:They don't say Hartge anywhere, but it's an early car, maybe they weren't stamped then. All they have is a plate on each one with the number "99152".
Also, mine have no flanges at all on the collector end.
