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This topic has come up from time to time but has become timely for me this December. For all the Californians out there, this might also be a timely topic. I have been researching pursuing re-registering the M535i under this program over the last year and decided I would try it when the registration came due a few weeks back. I decided that my vanity Arts Program plates were a little too much of a luxury and quite pricey to justify the expense (I've had my vanity appeased and can now say I had at least one set of personalize plates in my life).

First some background:
California DMV has many registration programs and many more specialty license plates for automobiles. One little used one is the Historic Vehicle program. California's designation of "Historic" is actually pretty broad; here is the text from the DMV code:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc5004.htm

V C Section 5004 Vehicles of Historic Value
Vehicles of Historic Value

5004. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this code, any owner of a vehicle described in paragraph (1), (2), or (3) which is operated or moved over the highway primarily for the purpose of historical exhibition or other similar purpose shall, upon application in the manner and at the time prescribed by the department, be issued special identification plates for the vehicle:

(1) A motor vehicle with an engine of 16 or more cylinders manufactured prior to 1965.

(2) A motor vehicle manufactured in the year 1922 or prior thereto.

(3) A vehicle which was manufactured after 1922, is at least 25 years old, and is of historic interest.

(b) The special identification plates assigned to motor vehicles with an engine of 16 or more cylinders manufactured prior to 1965 and to any motor vehicle manufactured in the year 1922 and prior thereto shall run in a separate numerical series, commencing with "Horseless Carriage No. 1".

The special identification plates assigned to vehicles specified in paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) shall run in a separate numerical series, commencing with "Historical Vehicle No. 1".

Each series of plates shall have different and distinguishing colors.

(c) A fee of twenty-five dollars ($25) shall be charged for the initial issuance of the special identification plates. Such plates shall be permanent and shall not be required to be replaced. If such special identification plates become damaged or unserviceable in any manner, replacement for the plates may be obtained from the department upon proper application and upon payment of such fee as is provided for in Section 9265.

(d) All funds received by the department in payment for such identification plates or the replacement thereof shall be deposited in the California Environmental License Plate Fund.

(e) These vehicles shall not be exempt from the equipment provisions of Sections 26709, 27150, and 27600.

(f) As used in this section, a vehicle is of historic interest if it is collected, restored, maintained, and operated by a collector or hobbyist principally for purposes of exhibition and historic vehicle club activities.
Amended Ch. 918, Stats. 1984. Effective January 1, 1985.
For the record, those sections mentioned in subsection (e) pertain to mirrors, mufflers, and fenders respectively.

A few key points of discussion have come up in my research:
1. Qualifications and Restrictions: I am actively pursuing this because even though there is a pretty heavy restriction on a vehicle's usage with these plates, in my case I'm already following these restrictions anyway. This is further bolstered and enforced by my current ACI collectors insurance policy. So to me, I met these qualifications on all counts. Beside, other than the threat of what your insurance company will say about coverage in the event of accident or claim, state authorities have little interest in enforcing these measures (especially here in Los Angeles it seems).

2. Smog: The reason this program is such a hotly discussed and debated issue pertains to whether or not you will need to Smog your car after you enter this program. Here in CA any car MY 1976 and newer must posses its' original Emissions equipment and in operation. All cars post '75 are mandated to be tested every two years (or upon sale and title transfer). This, as you are all aware, is becoming increasingly more difficult for us here in CA as time marches on (at least through proper, legal means as is the spirit of the law). There has been multiple anecdotal evidence over the years that, despite the clear text above, those folks that have gone this route have not received a Smog testing notice on their registration since registering this way. This I admit was the primary reason I pursued this program as I would love to restore the M535 to its' original Euro exhaust configuration without the O2 Sensor, Cat, and Johnson Box. (I justify this attitude as this car is driven so little, that any affect it may have on the environment is extremely negligible).
You can see these discussions here at these forums from Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche, and others; some threads are quite old, but others are up to date:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/califo ... plate.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech ... lates.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... -them.html
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/52341-c ... al-plates/
I most recently talked to two individuals at this year's SoCal Vintage Meet (the only two cars on the field that had these plates), one a '77 2002 whose owner only recently registered this way and the other an '85 M635CSi whose owner had done this several years ago. The 2002 didn't have to Smog this year (CA does not require a Smog Certificate if you are maintaining ownership even for this type of registration change) so it is unknown yet what his fate will be while the M635 was on year 3 with no Smog notice yet. I was hopeful despite coming across this notice from CA DMV:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 7178,d.eW0
Suffice it to say, I will paraphrase: it is an internal memo from CA DMV dated 2012 clarifying and stating very definitively that regardless of a post '75 vehicle being registered as Historic, does not mean it is exempt from the bi-annual Smog testing requirement. It goes further to say that any exemption that was previously granted, was incorrect and should not have been done so. So there you go, however if it weren't for that conversation this past October with the M635's owner, I would say this issue has been officially closed. But time will tell.

3. Procedure: So, I decided to take the plunge. You have to do this at the DMV; specialty programs such as this as not handled by AAA. This was the first time I stepped foot in a DMV office in about a decade. The form is available on the DMV's wesbite, but you will have to process it in person at an office. First off, beyond the usual DMV bureaucratic apathy, be prepared for the clerk to know nothing of this program and their push-back. Be patient and allow them the time to research this in the computer, multiple binders, and supervisors. Also, important note: in order to get this designation, you have to be granted it from the central DMV HQ in Sacramento; it is not official until they do so. So this is really just an application and request process; you may have them refuse it whereupon you will have to appeal their decision (a process I know nothing about). After some time, the clerk finally figured it out and told me the following:
A. Since this a "special application" with DMV, expect the final approval to take 3-4 months.
B. When and if your application is approved, the new plates may either arrive at the DMV office you're applying from or on your door step.
C. You will have to surrender your current license plates at a DMV office (as expected).
D. Even if you receive the new plates in the mail, they may or may not be activated and assigned to the car yet. Since there is no real way to know this (even though they shipped mine with a new temp registration card), you will have to come into a DMV office to verify. Also this would be the time to surrender your old plates; it would make sense they do this deliberately so they can get those old plates (plates for cars in CA are permanently assigned to a car for life and cannot be transferred unless they are vanity or specialty plates).

I went to the office with a stack of paperwork ready to state my case about the eligibility of my M535 as historic along with my insurance policy statement. All this is probably a good precaution because you never know what to expect from the DMV staff, but in the end my clerk could really care less as long as the age of the car was correct. After all, the final decision is not up to them, but Sacramento. However, if you are registering the car for the first time in CA, then I suppose it will be a tougher process where you may have to do more negotiating at the window.

In conclusion:
So I applied back around the 12/10 before my registration was to expire as was given my temp registration. Since the car wasn't going anywhere right now, it was no big deal. Last Saturday, these arrived on my doorstep:

Well in advance of what I was told (+/-3-4 months) so I wasn't expecting these until March.

So in the end, at the worst I have a new set of unique license plates that are cheaper than my personalized vanity plates. At best, I will have these plates and not have to Smog the car again; we will see come this December (when it's due again).

Hope this is informative for all the Californians who are thinking about this (either on this board or out there in the general car population).

Great informative factual writeup.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for bringing the story to a close. Figured I'd have to wait until March to get the scoop.

Playing the devil's advocate, the question I would ask is, what could or would the consequences be if you were stopped by an overthinking peace officer, when asked what event you were participating in? What proof would you have to have of some such historical /enthusiast event taking place that would allow you to be driving this vehicle when stopped? Could this overachieving officer potentially impound your car if you had no proof of something taking place that day? What kind of fine could be imposed? If you are involved in an accident or cause one, could things get ugly if it's found that you couldn't prove that there was an event that you were attending that day? Who invented liquid soap and why?
I suppose the bottom line is, is this program worth the worry involved any time you see a popo and you know he can see your plates, if you'll need to surrender your car or it's plates when/if he pulls you over?
As cool as the idea of those plates are, I drive my car too much and don't want to be wondering when i'm going to be hassled about it.
(Sad thing is, my car wouldn't even qualify for these plates, so why am I even commenting?)

Seems to me that Vince is operating in the spirit of the law on this (perhaps smog equipment notwithstanding), not looking to make a car getting regular use simply smog exempt. His case bolstered by the fact he has a collectors/limited use insurance policy.

My point being, anyone considering these plates that drives their car on any regular basis, best not apply. Vincenzo's car is truly an enthusiast's car, and should wear these plates with pride. My car doesn't have enough microfiber towels, red Solo cups and empty Clamato bottles rolling around in the trunk to claim it as a regular historical event attender.

Okay. Fair point. I think the devils advocate thing threw me off.

Those rules are in place in pretty much every state with historic type plates. As long as you don't DD it, you shouldn't have to worry, but it doesn't hurt to have a list of shops close by and event dates and locations.

Geez. Here, you just go pay your 50 bucks and get your plates. The only real requirement is you have to have another vehicle registered and insured to prove that you aren't going to drive the antique car every day. It's a permanent registration, so you never have to worry about renewing.

The only way they can really do anything to you in Virginia is if a cop sees you driving it to work every day and takes notice. In VA, you're allowed a cetain number of "pleasure miles" and you're allowed to drive your antique car to work if your primary vehicle is broken. they don't check your mileage ever and even if they did, my odo gears are broken. No safety inspection in VA for antique cars, either. I got mine mostly because I got tired of trying to get my reverse lights to work.

Paul Cain did it with his '81 528i. It's doable. It's been done. Best of luck I have a picture. Oh and my big toe hurts. No it really does.

BuzzBomb wrote:Playing the devil's advocate, the question I would ask is, what could or would the consequences be if you were stopped by an overthinking peace officer, when asked what event you were participating in? What proof would you have to have of some such historical /enthusiast event taking place that would allow you to be driving this vehicle when stopped? Could this overachieving officer potentially impound your car if you had no proof of something taking place that day? What kind of fine could be imposed? If you are involved in an accident or cause one, could things get ugly if it's found that you couldn't prove that there was an event that you were attending that day? Who invented liquid soap and why?
I suppose the bottom line is, is this program worth the worry involved any time you see a popo and you know he can see your plates, if you'll need to surrender your car or it's plates when/if he pulls you over?
As cool as the idea of those plates are, I drive my car too much and don't want to be wondering when i'm going to be hassled about it.
(Sad thing is, my car wouldn't even qualify for these plates, so why am I even commenting?)

All those are legitimate points especially the ones that would overlap any insurance issues (i.e. accidents). Anyone who sees themselves possibly falling in these situations should think twice about pursuing this. I could see some extreme scenario where the most minor of fender-bender turns into a DMV/Police nightmare with me seeing the car being flat-bedded to impound (shudder).
Truthfully though, the use of these plates is defensible to even the most anal officer in all these cases. Sure the code states that the car is to be used for club events & parades, but what do they think you're supposed to do when you need servicing? or gas? or moving? or just plain parked on the street? Even the strictest collector insurance policies give you latitude here an allow for some "general" driving. Only the most flagrant misuse of these plates would likely invite police oversight.

So no, in the end I'm not too worried about incurring the worst possible outcome from these scenarios. The car just simply isn't driven that much for me to worry about it (hell, it almost never leaves the garage and is about to be totally off the road for a large part of this year). I'm more worried about getting dinged for not having the front license plate than getting busted for it being Historic. If I feel any risk from using these plates, I can always change them back.

I would LOVE to know how the language about 16 or more cylinders got in there - was that part of the bill sponsored by the Marmon and Cadillac appreciation society?

Maine used to have all the restrictive usage language for Antique plates, but they have dropped all but the requirement that you have to have something else registered normally. 25 years is the cutoff, gets you out of safety inspection - we don't have emissions. Getting an older car through safety can be just about as bad though.

Vince,

Saw your great write-up regarding California Historical Plates and smog check requirements. What ultimately happened in your case? Did you have to smog check your car after you received your Historical Plates when registration came due again? Thanks. cwh55555@hotmail.com

Vince,
You are a true over-achiever. Very nice work. Thanks a million for your endeavor. You can regail us with more of your story in 36 days.
Thanks,
RussC

I've had vehicles registered in Idaho under "Classic" plates. I worked as a mechanic at the dealership, and there was at least two events happening in Spokane, WA area every day of the week. I daily drove my Scout for quite a few years with classic plate. Since it's a permanent registration, it's a blank plate with no tab sticker.



I did get a tow notice in WA for a "non registered vehicle" once with the plate. As you can see, it easily can be confused.

Vince,

Saw your great write-up regarding California Historical Plates and smog check requirements. What ultimately happened in your case? Did you have to smog check your car after you received your Historical Plates when registration came due again? Thanks. cwh55555@hotmail.com

One hundred percent confirmed, these plates will in no way remove your requirement to smog your car in CA.

Boooooooo

Thanks BuzzBomb. Did you get historical plates for your car and still have to smog prior to registration, or is your answer based upon the information contained in Vehicle Industry News (VIN 2012-12) notice from CA DMV?

55555 wrote:Thanks BuzzBomb. Did you get historical plates for your car and still have to smog prior to registration, or is your answer based upon the information contained in Vehicle Industry News (VIN 2012-12) notice from CA DMV?

Two cars with historical plates, phone conversations with DMV, my registration renewals stating a smog certificate is required.

Drats! Thanks BuzzBomb. I'll have to figure something else out.

It was apparently a bureaucratic mix up between B.A.R. and DMV.


"Vehicles that are 1976 year-model and newer assigned Historical Vehicle License Plates are not exempt from smog requirements based on designation as a historical or collector vehicle."

"Vehicles assigned Historical Vehicle License Plates were incorrectly being exempt from smog certification requirements."

I figured it was a mix up between cosmetologists and space men, but you're probably more right than me.