EV6 injectors from M62, will they fit M30?

[Thradya]

I wanted to send my injectors for cleaning/refresh but those according to my research should fit being just a tiny bit shorter and be a small upgrade in regards to idle quality and ticking noise. They will be sent for cleaning anyway of course, price difference will be marginal. Will they fit?

Current 0280150203:


New 0280155823:


Current:
Flow rate 3 bar/min: 146,5 g
Total resistance: 16,15 Ohm

New:
Flow rate 3 bar/min: 150,0 g
Total resistance: 14,50 Ohm

I intend to compensate the small flow rate difference at the AFM. Those particular ones because they are cheap and plentiful here. No "mustang" injectors etc. available.

[SlickDizzy]

I imagine they would work fine for you. They are actually closer in flow spec and impedance to the original 0280150203 than the 0280150556 Ford injectors everyone likes:



Lots of people drop in the Ford injectors with no adjustments whatsoever and report good results, I would skip adjusting the AFM right off the bat.

EDIT: Some poking around shows that 0280155746 naturally-aspirated Volvo 850 injectors are an even closer match, those may also be more common in Europe:

[ahab]

Not sure what you mean by fit but in either case the answer is likely yes. I have no experience with those particular gray injectors but the body looks to be the same as the mustang injectors so you should be able to bolt them in, and the flow rate and impedance are close enough.

However, none of the injectors in the photos above are EV6, they are all EV1. An EV6 will not connect to your harness without some adapters. I run 24lb EV6 with some adapters I found on eBay. Since the M1.0a harness and the M1.3 SuperE harness use flexible injector connectors this will work, the E34 M1.3 harness probably won’t because the injectors connect directly to a tray which connects all 6. While the adapters will physically connect, the tray will be elevated by the length of the adapter so you might have issues there.

I would not try to modify the AFM but would recommend a new O2 sensor. The ECU will automatically trim the fuel delivery for the new injectors. They are so close that you can probably do nothing, but a new O2 will ensure more accurate mixture feedback.

[Thradya]

Does the spray pattern matter? Stock is conical, the grey one is 2 beam. Suggested volvo would be best (also conical), but prices and availability are poor unfortunately.

It was my understanding that EVx is injector type/generation (EV1 old, EV6 newer, EV14 latest for port injection) and they are all made with different type of connectors - our cars use "jetronic" type and they are all available as such with the idea of replacing older types with newer types and back compatibility mentioned in almost all Bosch product catalogs. So no, with proper connector, injector length, flow rate and spray pattern they all should be interchangeable with no addapters needed.

Also I have no O2 sensor so only AFM tinkering is possible. As mentioned by SD though, it shouldn't be necessary with such small flow rates difference.

[ahab]

EVx is related to electrical connector type. A finer spray pattern will result in better atomization and therefore higher efficiency, which is the reason most people switch from stock (Design I, single pintle) to Mustang (Design III, 4 pintle). The flow rate is nearly the same but the spray pattern is superior. Here is the chart I use for cross compatibility and injector sizing.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

[tn535i]

Dual cone spray pattern injectors are meant for a head that branches into two valves... YES / NO ?

Seems like a good choice on the S38 (in the right flow rate and Impedance) but NOT the M30.

[gadget73]

mid 90s Ford Explorer 5.0 injectors are a popular upgrade from 80s vintage Ford injectors too. Not sure precisely what flow you need, but generally the 90s Exploder parts drop into 80s Ford EFI stuff without any fuss. Since this is 'murica they're rated at 19 lb/hr. No clue what that translates to in metric since its a fairly course measurement. Late one are the 4 hole nozzle vs the single hole pintle design. Better atomization and all that fun stuff. They exist with an EV1 style connector, or you can get EV1 to EV6 adapters if needed. I've always avoided those just because I figure my 80s Fords have enough dodgy electrical connections already, adding 8 more isn't really at the top of my to-do list.

FWIW, Fords are single intake valve and they use the 4 hole nozzles just fine.

[SlickDizzy]

FWIW, Fords are single intake valve and they use the 4 hole nozzles just fine.

Number of nozzle holes do not strictly define the spray pattern; see below. You also have to be careful selecting injectors based on flow rates as they are not always rated at the same fuel pressure. In the case of the Ford injectors you describe, the upgrade is from a pencil spray pattern to a conical pattern with similar flow at a similar impedance so it's a straightforward upgrade. But that's not always the case; it's really worth spending some time researching all the specs (flow at specific fuel pressure, impedance, form factor, spray pattern, electrical connection) before deciding on an injector.

[gadget73]

All true. I only mention them as an alternative to the fat body Ford injectors that were previously mentioned. The Exploder parts should stand in for those. How good a match those are for the original BMW parts I have no clue. The only BMW anything I have any experience with is a diesel in a Lincoln. I know 80s Fords though. I also have some understanding of the Teves ABS system that I believe some BMW models got. My Mark VII has one, new bomb and all.

[Mike W.]

FWIW, Fords are single intake valve and they use the 4 hole nozzles just fine.

Number of nozzle holes do not strictly define the spray pattern; see below. You also have to be careful selecting injectors based on flow rates as they are not always rated at the same fuel pressure. In the case of the Ford injectors you describe, the upgrade is from a pencil spray pattern to a conical pattern with similar flow at a similar impedance so it's a straightforward upgrade. But that's not always the case; it's really worth spending some time researching all the specs (flow at specific fuel pressure, impedance, form factor, spray pattern, electrical connection) before deciding on an injector.

Interesting, I'd never heard or thought about all that. Makes sense especially for 4 valve engines, but news to me.

[Thradya]

Yup, that's the same thing that the shop told me - the ones I originally wanted to use are meant for 4 valve engines - they will work, but will be suboptimal. Also the reason why latest EV14's have so many variations based on spray angle to fit different head/valve shapes. They suggested an alternative with single conical spray pattern at unknown angle (I guess the Volvo ones that SD found, the only EV6 alternatives are extremely rare UAZ and Triumph applications), but they don't want to tell me their number - apparently they are offering "upgrades" for 2v BMWs for a long time and it's their "shop secret" based on "hundreds" of tested injectors. Whatever, I've ordered their upgrade package since it was barely more than cleaning my own and we'll see which they are exactly when they arrive after the weekend. At least they will be flow matched and with 6 months of warranty.

[SlickDizzy]

Yup, that's the same thing that the shop told me - the ones I originally wanted to use are meant for 4 valve engines - they will work, but will be suboptimal. Also the reason why latest EV14's have so many variations based on spray angle to fit different head/valve shapes. They suggested an alternative with single conical spray pattern at unknown angle (I guess the Volvo ones that SD found, the only EV6 alternatives are extremely rare UAZ and Triumph applications), but they don't want to tell me their number - apparently they are offering "upgrades" for 2v BMWs for a long time and it's their "shop secret" based on "hundreds" of tested injectors. Whatever, I've ordered their upgrade package since it was barely more than cleaning my own and we'll see which they are exactly when they arrive after the weekend. At least they will be flow matched and with 6 months of warranty.

I would be curious to hear what the part number is when they show up.

[Thradya]

Well, they really meant it when they said "shop secret":



Attached testing sheet says they are in 212-216cc@3bar range, type is "single cone", measured resistance 14,9 ohms.

[Thradya]

Holy shit, I wasn't aware how loud old injectors were. What I thought were ticking valves were actually injectors. Sounds completely different, not like M30 at all.
Not sure how it drives yet, since in the meantime I've began working on some other stuff but besides the ticking sound it also sounds completely smooth - like it actually has 6 cylinders now - old injectors had to be in really bad condition because I doubt going with newer gen would make such a difference. It seems that baselining is a good idea after all

[kodachrome]

EDIT: Some poking around shows that 0280155746 naturally-aspirated Volvo 850 injectors are an even closer match, those may also be more common in Europe:

FYI just ordered these online, set of 6 for under $75, new!?
Fitting to M30B25, will report on results.

EDIT: Minor thread necro I know.

[SlickDizzy]

EDIT: Some poking around shows that 0280155746 naturally-aspirated Volvo 850 injectors are an even closer match, those may also be more common in Europe:

FYI just ordered these online, set of 6 for under $75, new!?
Fitting to M30B25, will report on results.

EDIT: Minor thread necro I know.

I have been running them on a M30B35 with bolt-ons and they have been doing a wonderful job. Car gets 23MPG even.

However I bought OE used/cleaned/flow-matched, the new Chinese knockoffs can be a bit dodgy.

[winmag4582001]

Definitely post how they work.
I picked up a set of 19lb 14ohm injectors to put in a 85 535

[WVe28]

Not to hijack, but since it's here and relevant, I have a full set (6) of the Bosch Volvo injectors remanufactured by CS Performance injectors and never installed I'll sell for $50 shipped (USA). I bought them before I decided to go with a higher flow for my build. PM me if you want them.

[kodachrome]

Not to hijack, but since it's here and relevant, I have a full set (6) of the Bosch Volvo injectors remanufactured by CS Performance injectors and never installed I'll sell for $50 shipped (USA). I bought them before I decided to go with a higher flow for my build. PM me if you want them.

I'll PM you, I'd rather reman original Bosch than new Chinese versions.

[winmag4582001]

I'm going to install a set of ebay 19lb 14.1ohm injectors next weekend on a 85 535i. Spent $50 for six.
Where is everyone else getting their injectors? Flow rate and ohm?
I'm thinking of doing the Accel 19lb 14.5ohm injectors from Summit racing on the 87 535is. Those are $260 for a set of 6.

[kodachrome]

Definitely post how they work.
I picked up a set of 19lb 14ohm injectors to put in a 85 535

So to update as requested. Installed the set from WVe28 yesterday.

Following observations:

- Idle went down to 600rpm. Perhaps some vacuum leak around the old injectors is now sealed?
- Actual idle quality however is now pretty poor, very warbly (and not in a good way) with moderate shaking, not sure if misfiring or what.
- Drive quality is the opposite (of idle), vastly improved, good pickup etc.
- Wife was driving behind me and she pulled out and got in front (in a 550i, wasnt hard). She later told me the e28 stinks of burning and fuel.


I tweaked the idle speed up again with the adjustment screw and left it at 900rpm. Drove around, felt great. When came to a stop again idle had crept up to 1300rpm now!?
Adjusted it back to around 750rpm, minor shaking and un-eveness. Any ideas?

[SlickDizzy]

Definitely post how they work.
I picked up a set of 19lb 14ohm injectors to put in a 85 535

So to update as requested. Installed the set from WVe28 yesterday.

Following observations:

- Idle went down to 600rpm. Perhaps some vacuum leak around the old injectors is now sealed?
- Actual idle quality however is now pretty poor, very warbly (and not in a good way) with moderate shaking, not sure if misfiring or what.
- Drive quality is the opposite (of idle), vastly improved, good pickup etc.
- Wife was driving behind me and she pulled out and got in front (in a 550i, wasnt hard). She later told me the e28 stinks of burning and fuel.


I tweaked the idle speed up again with the adjustment screw and left it at 900rpm. Drove around, felt great. When came to a stop again idle had crept up to 1300rpm now!?
Adjusted it back to around 750rpm, minor shaking and un-eveness. Any ideas?

If it feels good at speed but struggles with idle, you may have an IACV or vacuum issue. Possibly introduced a vacuum leak or forgot to plug the IACV back in during the injector replacement.

The 0280155746 injectors have been excellent in my car so far, I've been very happy with them.

[tn535i]

I tweaked the idle speed up again with the adjustment screw and left it at 900rpm. Drove around, felt great. When came to a stop again idle had crept up to 1300rpm now!?
Adjusted it back to around 750rpm, minor shaking and un-eveness. Any ideas?

Sounds like an idle control problem, T/B position and TPS adjustment first then maybe look at the idle mixture and AFM bypass adjustment (if you are sure there are no vacuum leaks).

[kodachrome]

Throttle position sensor was just looked at and tweaked (it wasnt working properly before and didnt do this), the TB itself I didnt touch but will recheck.
AFM bypass is the thing I already tried adjusting up and down. Idle mixture I figure I'll need a CO meter.

It really does seem its a vacuum leak, just cant see where from. The original injectors looked like they wouldnt have been capable of sealing properly, dirt was above and below the Orings. Can't see how fixing that made things worse.

[kodachrome]

Figured the problem out! There is a vacuum line on the bottom of one of the Crank Ventilation hoses (the one towards the front of engine on the flexi intake tube after AFM) that I didnt see. It pulled out not up at the top, but around the back bottom of the intake manifold itself. Only found it by tracing each vacuum line individually and found it dangling!