MyE28.com

Sorry, no pics for eye candy here unless someone has some pics to post for me.

In the interim time between now and next year when I plan on getting some staggered 17" E36 M3 wheels, I've decided to go with some 16" Borbet wheels to replace the IMO fugly 15" E32/E34 bottlecaps that are currently on the car. The plan is to purchase the Borbets and new tires around July.

I had all but completely decided on the 16x7.5 Borbet Type H since they look pretty good and are only $99 at the Tire Rack. A good 225/50-16 tire can't be too hard to find, either. I may even look into a 235/45-16 even though that's a little farther off the original size than the 225/50-16.

Anyway, I'm a sucker for 5-spoke wheels on the E28. I like the Mille Miglia MM11-2 and MM11-3 wheels as well as pretty much all of Borbet's 5-spoke offerings. I've decided that the narrow spoke on the Mille Miglias just won't look good on a Bronzit car. They look AWESOME on DPP's Diamondschwartz car, but alas, I have a dust-colored car that just won't look as good with them. So, the MMs are out.

That leaves us with the 16" offerings from Borbet: the type B, E, and H. The B and E are very similar in that the spokes come out in the center as opposed to being just flat with the rim of the wheel like the Type H. The Type H -- the one I'm leaning toward -- has more of a round spoke. I've seen a pic of the Type H on a bronzit 535i on eBay, and it looks pretty good, although I'm sure the other two would look good, too.

Here's the line-up:

B: 16x7.5 ET20
$128
20.5 lbs

E: 16x7.5 ET20
$135
20.5 lbs

H: 16x7.5 ET20
$99
23 lbs

What do y'all think? Think I should stick with the Type H because I KNOW it looks good and it's only $99 a pop, or do you think the B or E would be a better choice for a Bronzit-beige E28?

TIA,

[Edit by Shifty on [TIME]1112662702[/TIME]]

Of those three, I think I like the type E the best. Of course, that's the most expensive one. All of them are good, though - for the price it's hard to argue with the type H. I assume you went to the area on the Tire Rack website where you can call up a side view of an e28 and try different wheels on it, unfortunately they only have red, black, blue, green and white colors for the car body color (The green is a pretty wild color on an e28, wonder why they have that option in there.)

I like five spoke wheels, too. One advantage is they are a LOT easier to clean than type 5's....

http://www.tirerack.com/upgrade_garage/ ... oYear=1988

I have 5 spoke wheels on my car although they are kind of unusual. They're Azev type A, 16 x 7.5, the previous owner put them on to replace the TRX's. I think the only US source is CEC wheels.



[Edit by stuart in mn on [TIME]1112663609[/TIME]]

Stuart,

I checked out the side view setup on Tire Rack's site. The closest they have to bronzit is white. It actually helps a little bit, but it's not the greatest. The more I look at the close-up pics of the Type E, the more I like them. I think I'm about to start liking those better. They're lighter and look higher quality than the H. But, the extra $170ish I'd have to pay for those wheels over the Type H may end up being the deciding factor.

After all, this IS just a temporary replacement.

I got curious about what kinds of 5 spoke wheels were offered by the factory, so I looked through http://zoouz.free.fr/wheels.htm and found these:



They're off an E60 5 series, 17 x 7.5 et20. I don't know if they'd look right on an e28 or not, but I thought they were kinda neat.

Go with the Type-H, my cosmosblau car had em, in 15" size, really cool looking rims, they looked like they were at least 16" because the style was so open.

Glen,

You mentioning your 535i reminded me that I have some pics of it on my hard drive! It also reminded me that Alan in Vancouver has/had a Cosmo Blue 535i, too, but he had a 16" version of the Borbet Type E. I checked out both your and his pictures.

The more I look at it, the more I like the Type E! But damned if those things aren't $36 more expensive per corner than the Type H. They're lighter, though.

I noticed there's a 17" version of the Type E on Tire Rack, too. They're $193. When you click on the "View A Close-Up Picture" link for the 17x8 Borbet Type E, you see that the offset is $40. This means they probably include spacers with the price. A lot of times when there's a high offset wheel for the E28, they sell a lower offset version of the same wheel for the E34. All you have to do is select an E34 to view instead of an E28.

I did this with the Borbet Type E and found a 17x8 version for the E34, as well. I'll be damned if the thing isn't $149 apiece instead of $193 for the E28 version of the same wheel! A closer examination brings to light the fact that the wheel sold for the E34 has an ET13 offset. On a 17x8 wheel! oooooooh baby that would be a SUH-WEET deep dish lip, wouldn't it?!

Checking Shawn D's wheel and tire database, I find very little information for an 8" wide wheel with ET13 offset. The 16x7.5 Hartge wheel had a 13mm offset, but it's a half inch narrower. That can make a lot of difference. According to Shawn's spreadsheet, there will be a negative 0.05" space in the rear. This means mild rolling of the rear fender is required.

Hmmm. . . . this could work!

Some numbers for you to prove to you that I'm not just rambling and thinking aloud:

I was originally thinking of going with a 17x7.5 E36 M3 wheel in front and a 17x8.5 version of the same wheel in back. This would require a 20mm spacer in front and a 15mm spacer in rear. That unsprung weight will add to the already-heavy M3 wheel. The 7.5" version is about 26.6 lbs while the 8.5" version is around 27.8 lbs. Add a few pounds per corner for the spacers, and we're at about 30 lbs per corner not including tires.

The 17x8 ET13 version of the Borbet Type E is about 23 lbs according to the Tire Rack. I don't need spacers for it.

On the weight issue, the Borbets win.

Both wheels are 1 piece cast, so, although the casting process may be different, making the argument of cast vs. forged does not apply here. Therefore, neither wheel wins this argument.

The M3 wheels will cost me between $400 and $900 for a full set, not including spacers. Add in spacers, and I'm out the door for at least $500. We'll say $700 for argument's sake. I still have to buy tires and pay someone to mount/balance them, too.

The 17x8 ET13 Borbets are $149 apiece and will cost me $596 for a set of four, plus shipping. If I buy the tires from the Tire Rack, too -- which I plan to do -- I can have them mounted and balanced for free.

From a pricing standpoint, the Borbets win.

I like the look of the M3 wheels. I really do. But, oooooh that deep lip on the Borbets is SO sweet!

It looks to me like I'm not going with a 16" Borbet as a temporary replacement until I can get the M3 wheels. I'm just skipping the interim time and going with the 17x8 ET13 Borbet Type E instead of the E36 M3 wheels unless someone can convince me otherwise!

Am I thinking rationally here?

The M3 wheels will cost me between $400 and $900 for a full set, not including spacers. Add in spacers, and I'm out the door for at least $500. We'll say $700 for argument's sake. I still have to buy tires and pay someone to mount/balance them, too.

The 17x8 ET13 Borbets are $149 apiece and will cost me $596 for a set of four, plus shipping. If I buy the tires from the Tire Rack, too -- which I plan to do -- I can have them mounted and balanced for free.

Am I thinking rationally here?

In my opinion, no. You're saying that the wheels YOU WANT will cost you $700 including spacers, while your "temp" wheels will cost $600. The way I see it, it isn't worth the $200 savings (including mounting) to put the Borbets on your car if you prefer the m3 wheels, and plan to use them later Anyway. Just wait a little longer and save up $200 more.

Raj,

I was originally going to just go with the 16" Borbets for a while until I had the money for the M3 wheels. I was then going to sell the Borbets to offset some of the cost of the M3 wheels.

However, seeing as how the 17" Borbet Type E's are wider (than the 7.5" M3 wheels, at least), lighter, cheaper, and will have that AWESOME ET13 lip, I'm leaning toward the Borbets as the permanent wheel and not even getting the M3 wheels at all.

As I said, I'm waiting until after 5er Fest to do this, so it's a little ways down the road anyway. But, I think I've made up my mind. 17x8 ET13 Borbet Type E instead of the M3 wheels with no 16" wheels to tide me over in the interim.

now that makes a little more sense.

[QUOTE="Shifty"]Sorry, no pics for eye candy here unless someone has some pics to post for me. [/quote]
Dude, pics are soooo easy -- you know how...


[QUOTE="Shifty"]Checking Shawn D's wheel and tire database, I find very little information for an 8" wide wheel with ET13 offset.[/QUOTE]

Why the F do folks never use the "TEST" lines at the bottom to put data in? !@#$ :p You don't need to "find" any previously-entered information if you have the wheel data -- just put it in yourself!

FWIW, I agree with Raj's assessment that it's irrational to buy new wheels for temporary use, as you haven't figured the depreciation of both the wheels and tires and the extra effort and $$$ to go through getting the next set. You were a Finance major, right? Either go with the Borbet permanently or have a little patience and get whatever more-expensive wheels you were considering.

Shawn,

When I said no pics, I meant pics of them on the car. I know how to post pictures. Thanks.

I DID use the test line at the bottom, but what I was referring to was the comments in the lines above from people that had BTDT. I've used your test lines on numerous occassions -- as well as the tire size calculator on the next sheet -- to determine the proper fitment of certain items. However, it's always nice to have someone else's real world experience in addition to mathematical calculations.

Yes, I did major in Finance, and I did think it through rationally. What I think you may have forgotten to add into your own calculations is the value of 1) the better look than the 15" E32/E34 bottlecaps, 2) the better grip of the better tires that I would surely be buying, and 3) the fact that the car will have less of a tendency to roll over on the shorter sidewall than it currently does now. These three points more than outweigh the cost of depreciation, and if I can buy a used set of the Borbet wheel I want on eBay or somewhere else, that just makes this temporary solution even better of a decision than before.

A lot of my post was just thinking out loud, but most of it was rational thought.




[Edit by Shifty on [TIME]1112703463[/TIME]]

here is my old 533 in boone sittin on 16x7 borbet type b's.

man i miss that car a lot even though it was a piece

i reallly liked them and never had any problems with vibration

[QUOTE="Shifty

However, seeing as how the 17" Borbet Type E's are wider (than the 7.5" M3 wheels, at least), lighter, cheaper, and will have that AWESOME ET13 lip...

... I think I've made up my mind. 17x8 ET13 Borbet Type E instead of the M3 wheels with no 16" wheels to tide me over in the interim.[/QUOTE]

Good choice Shifty, I considered the same wheels as replacements for my 16' type E's, but decided to do something different...


Rondell #58's...17" x 8.5" et 13

hey brad...check these out.........not a bad deal for $350.00

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/pts/67189106.html

Marshall,

Nice wheel. I really like the BBS weave style, too. I had some BBS RXes on my old 528e and loved the look. 8.5" ET13, holy crap! It's going to be interesting to see how those things fit!

Jim,

That's really a good deal for those wheels, but I'm more interested in the 5-spoke Borbet style wheels than the 7-spokers. Nice wheels, though!

Oh, and Jim, can you PLEASE quit posting pictures of your newly-redone 5er? I'm so dehydrated from all of the drooling!

I dont know if you could make these fit, but they are very nice set of 18's. Kinda pricy for just a set of rims though.

[QUOTE="Shifty"]... 8.5" ET13, holy crap! It's going to be interesting to see how those things fit![/QUOTE]

The fronts fit with no problems using 235x45x17 Kumho 711s. The rear (w/the same tire) required cutting the fender lip by 5/16" to get the clearance needed. The rear rubs slightly when crossing a bump/depression at speed. The rubbing comes from a rearward movement of the subframe, not an up and down motion, so I guess that I need to install the poly-filled subframe bushings along with the filled diff mount and also dogbones that have been sitting on a shelf in the garage for a year.

Will follow up with pics soon. They really fill the wheelwells up without looking ricey. The tire shoulders extend past the rim of the wheels.

[QUOTE="Shawn D, aka "Wheel fitment god":[/I]
Why the F do folks never use the "TEST" lines at the bottom to put data in? !@#$ :p You don't need to "find" any previously-entered information if you have the wheel data -- just put it in yourself![/QUOTE]

Remember some people don't have excel!

Incidentally, if you want to send me the variables and math used, I might whip you up a Javascript wheel width calculator you can use right on your wheel and tire database page if I find time one afternoon. Shouldn't take me very long.

[Edit by Azure on [TIME]1113457838[/TIME]]

[QUOTE="Shawn D, aka "Wheel fitment god":[/I]
Why the F do folks never use the "TEST" lines at the bottom to put data in? !@#$ :p You don't need to "find" any previously-entered information if you have the wheel data -- just put it in yourself![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Azure"]Remember some people don't have excel!

Incidentally, if you want to send me the variables and math used, I might whip you up a Javascript wheel width calculator you can use right on your wheel and tire database page if I find time one afternoon. Shouldn't take me very long.[/QUOTE]

It's not an issue of not having Excel -- that would be understandable. 90% of the time, the problem is that folks are lazy and don't bother to read the "READ THIS FIRST" sheet. Then they go about complaining that they can't find the exact same fitment or they ask "What does _____ mean?" when it's fully explained. Even if they don't have Excel, they can read the "READ THIS FIRST" sheet (and all the rest of the sheets) if they use the free "Excel Viewer" from Microsoft.

Thanks for the offer of some coding -- the variables and math are visible by clicking on the cells -- lots of nested "IFs".

[QUOTE="Shawn D."]It's not an issue of not having Excel -- that would be understandable. 90% of the time, the problem is that folks are lazy and don't bother to read the "READ THIS FIRST" sheet. Then they go about complaining that they can't find the exact same fitment or they ask "What does _____ mean?" when it's fully explained. Even if they don't have Excel, they can read the "READ THIS FIRST" sheet (and all the rest of the sheets) if they use the free "Excel Viewer" from Microsoft.

Thanks for the offer of some coding -- the variables and math are visible by clicking on the cells -- lots of nested "IFs".
[/QUOTE]

There doesn't appear to be an excel viewer available for Mac, but I think my wife recently got a license for Office on her mac.. I'll have to take a look.

Hey shifty, you still looking for borbets? i'm gonna be selling mine in a bit with the kumhos, not perfect shape but just letting you know.

I just saw this rondell rim heres mine, ready for paint! With stock M5 suspension behind this will touch the fender/wheelwhell (exuse my bad english).. 235/45 17" et35


And if you do this, it wont touch

Marius

type E's without a doubt... I have wanted them for like EVER CAR I've ever owned... dunno why, but I dig them.

535iS South Florida, I wouldn't be able to buy them until the end of the summer if you'll still have them. What do you want for them? Are they 17x8 ET13? Looks like it to me. Nice!

Marius, nice wheels, man!

Hey shifty, i think they are 16x7.5 or 8 ... sad i dont even know myself... Anyway 2 of the wheels have some clear coat cracking and a few stains from brake crap, which i havent been able to get off, but i think its possible.. Anyway i dont know what i'm going to ask for them as i dont know whats a fair price, the kumhos have about 10k on them.. hard for me to tell cause my odometer is busted. I'll probably still have them toward the end of the summer since i havent gotten new wheels/tires yet.. if you are interested then i will send you detailed pictures of everything.