How Do I Describe...

[davintosh]

... my disdain -- nay, my hate -- for the Cash For Clunkers program?

So I'm driving across town on an errand last weekend, which takes me past the local VW/Audi/Saab dealership, and as is my habit, I swing through the used car lot to see what they've got. They'll often take in a nice BMW in trade, and have been known to price them decently. At the back of the lot sits a very nice early '90's 735i. The sales office is closed, so I peek in the windows, and check out the exterior; not a bit of rust, no dents, decent paint (Burgundrot Metallic) and near perfect interior. It's an automatic, but it's a nice enough car I could overlook that.

My middle son turns 16 tomorrow, so I've been keeping an eye out for a school car for him; if that car were priced right, it'd be perfect. I watched their website to see if it came up in their listing, but as of tomorrow, nothing. So I called the dealer to get the skinny on it. Sure enough, it was a C4C trade. Crap. Headed for the crusher.

I can see how someone with a car like that might be lured into a deal like C4C; get a trade in value of maybe twice what the car is actually worth, but it just seems so wrong on a car that has so many things going for it. True, the old Sevens are known for their quirky HVAC systems, and the auto tranny's can be a curse at times, but just the fact that it was eligible as a C4C trade tells me that it got there under its own power; in my opinion there's no good reason to scrap a car that looks as good as this one. It's a crying shame.

So now my thoughts have turned to how I might get my hands on the decent set of basket-weaves & tires on it, and maybe the brakes & rotors... Those would work for a big brake upgrade, wouldn't they?

[Snakeyestx]

1. Steal Car
2. Change VIN Plates
3. Store for a Year
4. ????? (mysterious Force if you're familiar with this format)
5. PROFIT!

[Bimmerguy2002]

cars as disposable appliances, we are just a bunch of obsessed freaks.

[davintosh]

1. Steal Car
2. Change VIN Plates
3. Store for a Year
4. ????? (mysterious Force if you're familiar with this format)
5. PROFIT!

That has crossed my mind... Even considered collaborating with the dealer on something similar, but #2, 3 and especially 4 have me flummoxed.

[rlomba8204]

I know what you mean but don't screw with changing the VIN. It's probably a federal crime now that would land you at a supermax prison given the geniuses that wrote the law.

The thing that bothers me about this program is that it is emblematic of a larger cultural shift that has gotten us into the current pickle that we are in. More specifically, I am referring to this country's moving away from what has often been called the "Protestant work ethic" of (obviously) working hard, deferring gratification, saving appropriately, and avoiding debt. In Democracy in America, Tocqueville wrote that America had learned to pursue industry without becoming overly materialistic. What made this discipline possible was a set of civic virtues -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance, and modesty.

When you look at current society against those ideals -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance and modesty, particularly if you look at indebtedness figures for individuals since, say, the 1970s, it is obvious that we have largely abandoned these values.

Now, during a recession that was largely caused by reckless borrowing on a personal level and reckless lending and risk management by financial institutions -- all driven in large part by plain old greed -- what's our best answer to the problem? Let's have the government print more money to have people incur more debt to throw away still-usable and probably paid-off assets so that they can borrow more money to buy new cars, in the name of stimulus.

Ben Franklin has probably rolled over in his grave several times by now.

[a]

lessee, 735i, blown transmission, Fubared HVAC, bad brake bomb. Prolly a good candidate for C4C.

[davintosh]

I know what you mean but don't screw with changing the VIN. It's probably a federal crime now that would land you at a supermax prison given the geniuses that wrote the law.

I really was just joking about that part. This seven isn't the only fish in the sea, but all the same, I hate to see it thrown up on the shore to rot.

The thing that bothers me about this program is that it is emblematic of a larger cultural shift that has gotten us into the current pickle that we are in. More specifically, I am referring to this country's moving away from what has often been called the "Protestant work ethic" of (obviously) working hard, deferring gratification, saving appropriately, and avoiding debt. In Democracy in America, Tocqueville wrote that America had learned to pursue industry without becoming overly materialistic. What made this discipline possible was a set of civic virtues -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance, and modesty.

When you look at current society against those ideals -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance and modesty, particularly if you look at indebtedness figures for individuals since, say, the 1970s, it is obvious that we have largely abandoned these values.

Now, during a recession that was largely caused by reckless borrowing on a personal level and reckless lending and risk management by financial institutions -- all driven in large part by plain old greed -- what's our best answer to the problem? Let's have the government print more money to have people incur more debt to throw away still-usable and probably paid-off assets so that they can borrow more money to buy new cars, in the name of stimulus.

Wow; that was beautiful. I think I shed a tear or two reading it. And I wholeheartedly agree.

Ben Franklin has probably rolled over in his grave several times by now.

He and the other Founders are rolling over at such a high frequency these days, we could use them as a new source of energy.

lessee, 735i, blown transmission, Fubared HVAC, bad brake bomb. Prolly a good candidate for C4C.

Maybe, but judging by the exterior & interior condition, I'd say there's a decent chance things under the hood were cared for properly as well.

[Double02]

My city has a similar program where they pay you to scrap your car but the money has to go to buying a bicycle or electric bike. They try to encourage you to register for the program when you go through the annual emissions testing, and a member of my local car club was recenctly given the form. His car? An E30 M3 in very nice condition.

[mooseheadm5]

The thing that bothers me about this program is that it is emblematic of a larger cultural shift that has gotten us into the current pickle that we are in. More specifically, I am referring to this country's moving away from what has often been called the "Protestant work ethic" of (obviously) working hard, deferring gratification, saving appropriately, and avoiding debt. In Democracy in America, Tocqueville wrote that America had learned to pursue industry without becoming overly materialistic. What made this discipline possible was a set of civic virtues -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance, and modesty.

When you look at current society against those ideals -- thrift, integrity, self-reliance and modesty, particularly if you look at indebtedness figures for individuals since, say, the 1970s, it is obvious that we have largely abandoned these values.

Now, during a recession that was largely caused by reckless borrowing on a personal level and reckless lending and risk management by financial institutions -- all driven in large part by plain old greed -- what's our best answer to the problem? Let's have the government print more money to have people incur more debt to throw away still-usable and probably paid-off assets so that they can borrow more money to buy new cars, in the name of stimulus.

Ben Franklin has probably rolled over in his grave several times by now.

I agree 100% with this analysis. It is one of the few times I can say that about anything remotely political posted on this site by anyone. I'll add to it, though.
A return to these core values (not morals for people in this world that confuse the two, just good common sense) requires that each and every one of us exercise restraint with every purchase to live within our means. This is a very bitter pill to swallow, which is why no politician from any side could possibly push it and still get elected. We live in a system where credit determines our futures. Living within your means assures that you are a credit risk and cannot do something like buy a house at a good mortgage rate (and getting a mortgage was unheard of many years ago but no way can any normal person save up enough to buy a house outright nowadays.) It means that you end up paying more for insurance. We live in a society that rewards having debt. This is fed to us from all sides from the big government types to the big business types. It is an addiction like so many other addictions. It could be that this country must hit rock bottom before it realizes that the addiction will destroy us. The big government types want to try to give us all a soft landing out of "compassion." The big business types want us to have a different type of soft landing so we can keep lining their pockets. Slightly on topic, they worked together to hand us this turd legislation. This crap has got to stop, but I fear it won't until things get much worse. Be happy with what you have, folks.

[1st 5er]

but no way can any normal person save up enough to buy a house outright nowadays.

Wrong.

A good friend just paid $180,000, cash, for his first home purchase.
He's 39 and has never made more than mid $20K his entire working life.
He saved and invested wisely.
Now in today's economy, at $20K income, he'd probably qualify for a $180K mortgage...

My son and his wife are planning to do the same, though it'll be at a much earlier age as his income is substantially higher.

It's in there, if one digs deep enough.

[mooseheadm5]

but no way can any normal person save up enough to buy a house outright nowadays.

Wrong.

A good friend just paid $180,000, cash, for his first home purchase.

I stand by my comment. That sort of investing does not normally yield the kind of return that your friend got. In areas with high cost of living, there literally would not be enough money left to invest at that kind of pay level. In this town, 180k wouldn't even buy a house. A condo, maybe.

[1st 5er]

Maybe you should move to Houston...

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch ... den%20Oaks

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch ... brook%20Dr

There's plenty more...

[mooseheadm5]

Cheap housing is not worth getting divorced and moving to Texas.

[1st 5er]

My wife came with me in 1976 and hasn't left me yet.

[tsmall07]

Maybe you should move to Houston...

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch ... den%20Oaks

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch ... brook%20Dr

There's plenty more...

Holy crap! and I thought it was cheap around here!

[mooseheadm5]

My wife came with me in 1976 and hasn't left me yet.

Yeah, but mine has specifically listed Tejas as one of the states where we would not move ever. It is a pretty long list.
I tend to concur. It is hot enough this far south!

[Mike W.]

My wife came with me in 1976 and hasn't left me yet.

Yeah, but mine has specifically listed Tejas as one of the states where we would not move ever. It is a pretty long list.
I tend to concur. It is hot enough this far south!

The problem isn't that you're too far south, it's that you're too far east...

Says the Californian who complains about too many people in the state, LOL.

[davintosh]

Thought it might be appropriate to bring this thread up from the depths... I downloaded the vehicle list from the local self-serve lot last week, and they had another car among the BMWs; a red '91 735i. Sure enough it was the same car I saw last September after being traded in. The intervening seven months have not been kind to the old girl.



Door is missing, two out of the three remaining door cards have been pulled, who knows what has been removed from the inside of the doors, lots of miscellaneous bits gone from under the hood and the interior, fuel tank has been 'relocated' to the trunk(?), front stabilizer bar is now in the trunk, all the speakers gone, stereo sitting in driver's seat, CD changer gone, grille & taillight gone, lots of dents and scratches that weren't there before... And it was just put out on the yard the day before I got there. I did score a few bits I could use, and may go back for the front seats tomorrow (12% off on Tuesdays). I'll go back for a couple of other needed bits from the underside of the car once they get it up in the air a little.

sigh

I'm really glad there hasn't been any talk of reviving the C4C program recently. I don't think I could handle round two.

http://www.davintosh.com/2010/05/01/bmw ... et-sorrow/