How To Open A Deadbolted Door?

[davintosh]

This is slightly off topic for mye28.com, as it concerns my e32, but I'm between a rock and a hard place with it, and I'm hoping somebody here can pull me out.

Last week my son tried to unlock an already unlocked door on the 735i, and ended up deadbolting the thing. Usually not a problem, as it's an easy enough matter to open the door if you know the right moves with the key. Trouble is, that the driver's door lock has been a little on the sticky side since I bought it, and we've had a string of days with sub-zero temps, and now the driver's door just won't unlock. Everything else unlocks just as it ought to, but not the driver's door. I've found plenty of help on how to clean up or replace a sticky lock mechanism, but that usually involves pulling the door card off an open door; since the door is locked, I can't open the $&#(^%& thing to get the door card off!

So far I've tried applying heat to the outside of the door, and running the heat inside, hoping to warm up the mechanism in the door enough that things will move again, but no joy there. I've also tried pulling the door card off with the door closed, but the door card and the trim around the door is all in perfect shape, and I really don't want to wreck any of it. I did get a the top corner near the back of the door pulled back, but could only see the lock button rod and the cable/wire connecting the inside door handle to the lock mechanism; I'd have to get pretty far down with that to be able to get at the parts I need to get it open. I called a locksmith, and he wouldn't even look at it; said that he tried to get into a deadbolted BMW once before, and they ended up breaking a window to do it. The Bentley also mentions the possibility of the lock mechanisms being out of sync, but I've gone through the synchronization process a half-dozen times, and the driver's door is still stuck. You can hear the actuator thunking inside the door, so I'm thinking that something is jammed or just plain too sticky to move.

I think my last resort with this thing is to take a utility knife to the padded inset above the armrest and cut myself an access hole to get at the mechanism. I really hate to cut into it, but it seems this is the only reasonable way to get inside the door. The padded inset area seems like the perfect place to do it because it appears to be in the right place to reach the actuator and lock mechanism, plus that part of the door card would be the least trouble to repair.

So, have any of you e32 veterans or BMW techs have any experience with this sort of thing? I'm getting really tired of climbing over the console to get in & out of the thing! (And it's too blasted cold for a General Lee ingress/egress method!)

Thanks!

[cvillebimmer]

You probably broke the door lock actuator bracket. I fixed mine like this: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/560700/

While you are in there, best to clean and re-lube everything you can. I actually took apart the key tumbler, cleaned it and lubed it with graphic. It's like a hot knife through butter now.

You could also use the "Great Stuff" method:

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/672849/



EDIT: missed the part about actually getting the door open. You may have to remove the door card. Not sure how/if you can do that without boogering it up. I have a spare door card (off the car in the garage) that I can look at to compare.

[RonW]

I don't know about the e32, but you can remove the door card on an e28 with the door closed.

[davintosh]

You probably broke the door lock actuator bracket. I fixed mine like this: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/560700/

While you are in there, best to clean and re-lube everything you can. I actually took apart the key tumbler, cleaned it and lubed it with graphic. It's like a hot knife through butter now.

You could also use the "Great Stuff" method:

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/672849/



EDIT: missed the part about actually getting the door open. You may have to remove the door card. Not sure how/if you can do that without boogering it up. I have a spare door card (off the car in the garage) that I can look at to compare.

I've pretty much tried every possible search parameter I could think of on the BimmerBoard.com archives, and did come across your post; I bookmarked it in case that's what my problem is, and I'm betting you're right. But, first I need to get the door open. If you could take a look at your spare and tell me if you can see a way to pull up the leather (vinyl?) in the padded inset area without cutting/tearing it, that would be a huge help! Thanks!

[davintosh]

I don't know about the e32, but you can remove the door card on an e28 with the door closed.

I wish it were the same case with the e32. The back edge of the door card laps over the b-pillar trim by a good amount. I tried getting the top corner past it, but couldn't get very far without risking damage to the door card in a highly visible spot; I'm probably the only one who would see it, but... I'd still like to do as little damage as possible. Maybe I need to lower my expectations and just get the stoopid thing open!

[mooseheadm5]

I pulled one off once to fix a similar problem about 5 years ago. You will need to get the card off by hook or by crook. Andrew, post a pic of the back side of the door card. I think you can get it apart without destroying it if I remember correctly. It may or may not help you to remove the seat and move it to the back of the car a bit. It is a PITA to do that but every bit of clearance helps.

[cvillebimmer]

I just looked and would suggest not cutting it. Behind the vinyl is a heavy board, kinda like peg-board and another layer of insulation. It would be tough to get through and hard to access the mechanism if you did.

Even if you have to sacrifice the door seal (cheap at the pick-n-pull and look for a DIY for remedying the shrinkage), I'd try to get the card off first. I'm sure there is a write-up, but IIRC you have to remove the tweeter, find a big screw near the door pull and then it's just the plastic clips around the edge and one big metal clip in the middle of the door. The clip in the middle needs a serious tug to get it out. After that comes free, just pull up out of the window frame.

[mooseheadm5]

That clip in the middle is supposed to come out by pushing the panel UP not tugging. It is designed that way. I don't remember if you can get the panel to go up in situ, but I think it is possible.

[RonW]

I don't know about the e32, but you can remove the door card on an e28 with the door closed.

I wish it were the same case with the e32. The back edge of the door card laps over the b-pillar trim by a good amount. I tried getting the top corner past it, but couldn't get very far without risking damage to the door card in a highly visible spot; I'm probably the only one who would see it, but... I'd still like to do as little damage as possible. Maybe I need to lower my expectations and just get the stoopid thing open!

Can you remove the B-pillar trim?

[mooseheadm5]

Andrew,
Pics or ban

[davintosh]

I don't know about the e32, but you can remove the door card on an e28 with the door closed.

I wish it were the same case with the e32. The back edge of the door card laps over the b-pillar trim by a good amount. I tried getting the top corner past it, but couldn't get very far without risking damage to the door card in a highly visible spot; I'm probably the only one who would see it, but... I'd still like to do as little damage as possible. Maybe I need to lower my expectations and just get the stoopid thing open!

Can you remove the B-pillar trim?

I'll have to look into that; I didn't see a way to do it when working on it yesterday, but didn't examine one of the open doors either... homework to do (and it's about 0°F right now, with no heat in the garage!)

[cvillebimmer]

I would start from the driver side rear as follows:

1) remove/move seat. Not hard, just two bolts (12 point, I think) and disconnect electronics. Wait to remove the wire harnesses so you can move the seat into the correct positions for bolt removal and lifting it off the front hooks.

2) Remove the door seal from the rear door.

3) Remove the b-pillar. I did it and don't recall there being anything special. Maybe two small screws near the bottom? Otherwise just clips.

4) Remove as much of the driver side door seal as possible.

5) Carefully pry the card. The green clips in the pic below may break, but they are cheap to replace.

I wouldn't try without getting the driver's seat out of the way. It might be tempting to leave it, but I think it's one of those things that will cause more aggravation to leave it in. Shouldn't take but 15 minutes to get it out.

I apologize to the picture size nazis... I left them big for detail and so you can see my fancy socks.





If you figure this out, you should write it up on bimmerboard.

[davintosh]

Thanks for the tips and the photos, Andrew. And for the recommendation to pull the seat. I thought about that, but also thought it would take too much time; it'd be good to get it out to give it and the carpet underneath a good cleaning anyway.

Turned out that I didn't have the time for working on it tonight anyway; my social coordinator got home and was appalled that I wasn't ready for the party I didn't know about. I may take the afternoon off tomorrow & see if I can get it apart finally. Will definitely take some photos for a bimmerboard writeup!

I can appreciate why BMW developed the deadbolt system, but why in the world would they NOT have a 'backdoor' way of getting it open in the case of a mechanical failure like this. Guess the statistical likelihood of this happening is pretty low, as is evidenced by how few little I found about it on the internet.

[mooseheadm5]

As I mentioned before, once you get the green plastic clips off, you should try to move the panel up. Trying to rip it off toward you can damage it, the white plastic thing in the second picture, and/or the receiver on the door. Also, the top part of the panel is designed to go up to get release.

To replace the door panel (after you are certain you have the problem fixed) you remove the white plastic thing from the door panel then slide it down into the receiver slot in the door. You put the door panel in place and once it is lined up you pound that portion of the door handle armrest to seat the metal tab into the slot.

[Murfinator]

I can appreciate why BMW developed the deadbolt system, but why in the world would they NOT have a 'backdoor' way of getting it open in the case of a mechanical failure like this. Guess the statistical likelihood of this happening is pretty low, as is evidenced by how few little I found about it on the internet.

Yes, the BMW deadbolt system is commendable but also a serious PITA at times. Here's what I experienced a few years back:

Parked the car and locked the drivers door with the key. When I turned the key clockwise I felt unusual binding and applied more force (not smart). The key then turned 90 degree and would not turn back counter-clockwise to unlock the doors (central locking) but remain stuck in the deadbolt position. When I realized I could not open any door of the car nor the trunk I called a locksmith. Following all standard procedures they called a more proficient locksmith who then used additional procedures to open the door to no avail. Since the car was in gear and the park brake set it could not be towed but had to be dollied to the stealership. Since my windshield was non-OEM and I'd been experiencing some leakage through the gasket due to the improper curvature of the glass I decided to have the windshield replaced (it was pitted but not cracked). While the windshield was out a BMW tech crawled through the opening cracking my dash in the process. To open the door they pulled back the b-pillar cover and removed the door card with the door shut. The lock mechanism had broken and jammed in place. When they called to tell me they'd opened the car but I'd need a new lock I wanted to take a look prior to authorizing a $110 per/hr repair job + parts. I was already $300 in the hole for the new windshield. When I saw the cracked dash, cracked b-pillar and tweaked door panel I asked to see the service manager. He told me I had to prove it wasn't preexisting damage. I wanted a new dash and b-pillar cover. The best they could do was offer replacement parts at cost and no shipping. I purchased two new b-pillars and lock mechanism at cost. Later I removed the dash and traded it and the set of door panels with M-Tech cloth to alpinass for a nice leather dash. Moral of the story: if your car has central locking and one of the lock get jammed in the deadbolt position you're screwed, and the stealership will screw you even more...but you already knew that.

[cvillebimmer]

So you screwed the stealership before they could screw you? You made it sound like that damage was preexisting.

When I saw the cracked dash, cracked b-pillar and tweaked door panel I asked to see the service manager. He told me I had to prove it wasn't preexisting damage. I wanted a new dash and b-pillar cover. The best they could do was offer replacement parts at cost and no shipping. I purchased two new b-pillars and lock mechanism at cost. Later I removed the dash and traded it and the set of door panels with M-Tech cloth to alpinass for a nice leather dash.

[nnarth212]

Perhaps irrelevant now: use some coat hanger and tug out the middle/bottom of the card while popping the clips on the perimeter free-- you may have just enough space created by pulling out to get the edges past the trim and seals.

[davintosh]

Perhaps irrelevant now: use some coat hanger and tug out the middle/bottom of the card while popping the clips on the perimeter free-- you may have just enough space created by pulling out to get the edges past the trim and seals.

I don't quite follow; do you mean push the wire through from top to bottom and use it to pull the card out from the center? That big honkin' clip in the middle of the door might make that difficult...

Thanks for the tip though, and it's not irrelevant yet; I was hoping to work on it last night because I had access to a heated workspace. That window of opportunity closed, and my next chance is on Thursday evening (I was hoping for this afternoon, but...) The high temp today reached a blistering 3°F, and working on it in my tiny unheated garage is for the birds. I'm a patient guy, and am willing to hurdle the console a few more times.

[mooseheadm5]

Take a laptop and stay in touch. I'll be on if you need assistance.

[Murfinator]

So you screwed the stealership before they could screw you? You made it sound like that damage was preexisting.

No. I got screwed. The damage to the b-pillar was new and the dash had a 1/2" hairline crack which became a 4" long 1/8" wide crack forward of the center vent.

[davintosh]

Take a laptop and stay in touch. I'll be on if you need assistance.

Will do! Thanks for the backup!

One other question on this topic, while I'm planning the job; has anybody come up with a way to either mechanically or electrically disable the deadbolt system? I know it's a great feature and all but with my sons and my wife driving it, I'd like to reduce the chance that they'll accidentally deadbolt it and not know what to do to get it unlocked. I'll (hopefully) have a better look at the mechanism on Thursday, but any insight into how it works and how I might be able to make the deadbolt dead would be most appreciated!

[davintosh]

So you screwed the stealership before they could screw you? You made it sound like that damage was preexisting.

No. I got screwed. The damage to the b-pillar was new and the dash had a 1/2" hairline crack which became a 4" long 1/8" wide crack forward of the center vent.

That's what I was thinking from the story you told; how much did you end up forking out to them for their 'service'?

That's one of those cases where I would've made a big enough stink about it that in the end they would've made it right or paid me to let it go (or to go away!)

[Snakeyestx]

(Note : I just read the basics of the 'deadbolt' system and how you can't open it from the inside)

I'm a little suprised no one's suggested this yet, but have you tried using a slim jim and just popping the door open from the outside? I had a Jag that had really quirky locks and this was sometimes the only way I could get inside it. Basically ran the tool down the window about halfway, then angled it about 45 degrees, hooked the mechanism, pulled up and the door pops open (basically you're bypassing the whole locking system altogether by hooking on the hinging bit that works on the pillar-pin).

After I get the door open, I could manually pull the lock pin on the top of the door to the "unlock" position and be on my way.

(Edit : I had to pull up on the Jag, push down on the Cadillac and Jeep)

[mooseheadm5]

Umm, no, you can't unlock the deadbolted door with a slim jim. You can't really any modern BMWs with them.

[davintosh]

(Note : I just read the basics of the 'deadbolt' system and how you can't open it from the inside)

I'm a little suprised no one's suggested this yet, but have you tried using a slim jim and just popping the door open from the outside? I had a Jag that had really quirky locks and this was sometimes the only way I could get inside it. Basically ran the tool down the window about halfway, then angled it about 45 degrees, hooked the mechanism, pulled up and the door pops open (basically you're bypassing the whole locking system altogether by hooking on the hinging bit that works on the pillar-pin).

After I get the door open, I could manually pull the lock pin on the top of the door to the "unlock" position and be on my way.

(Edit : I had to pull up on the Jag, push down on the Cadillac and Jeep)

Slim-Jim? I wish. Google something like "unlock deadbolt bmw" and see what you find. Basically, if a BMW door has been deadbolted, the only way to open it is for the actuator to pull the deadbolt. Period. From what I understand, that actuator has no moving parts that can be snagged by a tool slipped in from the door, inside or outside the cabin. I plan to snap some photos of the thing once I have it out & see if I can figure out how it works; watch this space for details!

This fiasco started about a week ago, and since then I've scoured the 'net looking for an easier way in; I've seen a multitude of stories from various people who have had to resort to breaking glass to get in. Slim-Jims won't work. If you haven't already, read Murfinator's story in this thread. Even Shogun, the e32 guru over on BimmerBoard has no better answers for me.

In short, it's a Very Secure System. A little too much so if you ask me.

[rlomba8204]

I would get in the car and gently pull up on the door lock knob (since people call these different names, the black cylinder shaped item that indicates whether the door is open or locked via its height) and pull on the door-opening handle at the same time. Oftentimes, at least with the e28 (this never happened with the e32, although it did happen on my old e28), the deadbolt issue can be resolved in this manner, if you get lucky, and have the right touch.

If it doesn't work the first time, experiment with pulling on either the knob or the handle first, and then try slightly different degrees of opening on the handle. As I said, sometimes you get lucky with this and it worked for me a few times.

[davintosh]

I would get in the car and gently pull up on the door lock knob (since people call these different names, the black cylinder shaped item that indicates whether the door is open or locked via its height) and pull on the door-opening handle at the same time. Oftentimes, at least with the e28 (this never happened with the e32, although it did happen on my old e28), the deadbolt issue can be resolved in this manner, if you get lucky, and have the right touch.

If it doesn't work the first time, experiment with pulling on either the knob or the handle first, and then try slightly different degrees of opening on the handle. As I said, sometimes you get lucky with this and it worked for me a few times.

I saw a suggestion like that somewhere last weekend, and have tried a bunch of possible combinations with the inside and outside door handles. Guess I don't have the right touch, and nowhere near enough luck for that. You're welcome to stop over & try though; dinner's on me if you get it open!

[DJM1986-5]

I would get in the car and gently pull up on the door lock knob (since people call these different names, the black cylinder shaped item that indicates whether the door is open or locked via its height) and pull on the door-opening handle at the same time. Oftentimes, at least with the e28 (this never happened with the e32, although it did happen on my old e28), the deadbolt issue can be resolved in this manner, if you get lucky, and have the right touch.

If it doesn't work the first time, experiment with pulling on either the knob or the handle first, and then try slightly different degrees of opening on the handle. As I said, sometimes you get lucky with this and it worked for me a few times.

above...that is exactly how to do it. pull the black knob up and work it up even further if possible by pulling gently on the handle. Add a little to modest bit of shoulder push while pulling on the inside handle.

Two things are wrong inside - the end of the lock cylinder is broken and the key no longer activates the actuator, and/or the flat spring inside the door LATCH mechanism is broken and will not allow the door catch to set properly, causing a jamb between the door pull and the door handle. You have to remove the whole door latch mechanism (15 minutes) and dissect the problem.

[rlomba8204]

I saw a suggestion like that somewhere last weekend, and have tried a bunch of possible combinations with the inside and outside door handles. Guess I don't have the right touch, and nowhere near enough luck for that. You're welcome to stop over & try though; dinner's on me if you get it open!

Not with the inside and outside handles -- with the inside handle and the door lock knob. Just want to make sure you're clear so you can hopefully get this resolved.

[davintosh]

I saw a suggestion like that somewhere last weekend, and have tried a bunch of possible combinations with the inside and outside door handles. Guess I don't have the right touch, and nowhere near enough luck for that. You're welcome to stop over & try though; dinner's on me if you get it open!

Not with the inside and outside handles -- with the inside handle and the door lock knob. Just want to make sure you're clear so you can hopefully get this resolved.

Yup. Probably should clarify; with the window open, I pulled on the inside door lock knob and the outside door handle. Spent a lot of time with different combinations of a tug and a wiggle and various curses, growls, moans, whimpers & prayers. Ditto with the inside door handle. Maybe I'll try sacrificing a goat too. Can't hurt (except for the goat).

DJM1986-5's suggestion above is interesting; hadn't thought of bumping the door from the inside with the shoulder. It felt pretty solidly closed, but I'll have to give that a try this afternoon. Plus it's considerably warmer today -- sunshine with a high in the mid-20's! -- so maybe that might make a difference too.