Account of Purchase of a 1984 M635CSi
Posted: Aug 10, 2010 8:43 AM
Mods, I wasn't sure where to place this thread, so I put it here. Please move it, if it needs to be moved. Thank you!
The purpose of this thread is to provide information to the community regarding my purchase process of a 1984 M635CSI from a member of our E24 community, Kevin Jones, aka BMW Performance on Bimmerforums.com. I am unsure of his handles on Mye28.com and BigCoupe.com. Mr. Jones sells vehicles under the corporation name KTJ Trading, Inc. The contact information for Mr. Jones is as follows:
Kevin Jones
100 Seddon Farms Drive
Pell City, AL 35128-7474
Alabama Dealer’s License #:54RL36184
Telephone: 256-490-XXXX, 205-552-XXXX
The vehicle was originally posted for sale in the thread below:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1464202
The text from the corresponding Ebay ad is quoted below:
“Pristine and stunning 1984 BMW M6. This car was only sold in Europe so it is very rare to find in the US. The M6 was heralded in 1984 as an absolute supercar and is still on several "Top 10" lists as one of the best cars ever. This is partially because of their rarity, as only 3,283 (per BMW M Registry) E24 chassis M6's were built from 12/83 through 12/88. This one is car number 213. These cars were hand built and were the true pinnacles of engineering at that time. This car is one of only 200 listed on the BMW M Registry. The hardware is truly world-class, beginning with a hand built inline 6 cylinder. The 5-speed transmission is what you expect in a flagship BMW and the 50/50 weight balance is more remarkable and communicative than many modern cars. One magazine article recognized this generation of M6 as "the absolute best, when BMW applied a 'no holds barred' philosophy to the hardware to create the finest supercar they could build." The modern M Editions to some, feel disconnected and overly subdued. The sensation of driving this car is much like that of a modern 911. You absolutely feel a connection to what each tire is doing and get feedback through the steering wheel, seats, and transmission. This is not a car you drive so much as you put it on and it becomes an extension of you.
The car has less than 100 miles on a brand new paint job. The chassis has only 110,000 miles on it making this an extremely low mileage example. At roughly 4,250 miles per year, the car has been exercised just enough to keep the condition as you see it in the pictures.
The interior is as new as the exterior and was also redone with in the last 100 miles. You would never guess this car is from 1984. This car has the very rare factory recaro seats in it. It is very hard to find them as very few cars were ordered with that option as they look very similar to the bmw seats. The easiest way to tell the difference is the BMW sport seats have a separate back piece where as the real recaro seats are one piece with no removable back. It also has rear head rests which were not available in the United State. I have never seen another Euro M6 with both options.
The suspension was also redone with new bilstein sport shocks and new steering linkages. The engine has also been serviced and checked out by mechanic. Anything I could think of I had done to the car. I don’t know of anything the car needs. I have way more than I am selling it for but it is time to move it to a new home. The person acquiring this vehicle will have one of the finest cars ever built and somebody is going to go home with it since it is NO RESERVE.
I request a $500 nonrefundable deposit within 24 hours and the rest by wire or cash. If you are a foreign buyer I can get it to the port or where ever needed. This is a vintage car with no warranty written or implied. Happy bidding and good luck “
There is a lot of fluff in the ad regarding the model of the vehicle, but I have boldfaced the important lines that describe the condition of the car. Impressed with the description of the vehicle, knowing that Mr. Jones has owned and sold a number of the vehicles over the years, and believing him to be an upstanding member of the community, I contacted him via telephone May 30th, 2010 to discuss the possibility of purchasing the car. At this point in time, the car was still on Ebay, but the auction had not ended. There were no bids on the vehicle.
Mr. Jones and I spoke at length about the condition of the vehicle via telephone and email over the next several days. I inquired about rust on the vehicle, to which he stated “I had it painted a month ago, and would not have gone through the trouble on a rust bucket.” Mr. Jones communicated that he had not seen the car in person, but it was located at his mechanic’s shop, a person by the name of Zane Topher (sp – I never saw the name in writing, only heard it verbally), in south Florida. Mr. Jones claimed this individual was an expert with these types of vehicles and had performed the work that had been described in the ad. Based upon these discussions we agreed to a price of $13,000 for the vehicle, and Mr. Jones ended the auction early. Proceeding in good faith based upon the description Mr. Jones had provided verbally and in writing, I wired him the money on June 3rd, 2010 and agreed to either ship the vehicle home to Flagstaff or drive it out of West Palm Beach, FL, the location of the car.
Over the next several weeks, I looked into shipping the vehicle, and the estimates were quite high. As such, I decided that I would drive the car back. Having experience with these vehicles, I started acquiring extra equipment for the trip, because as we all know, things break on these cars, even if they are in excellent condition. I coordinated a time with Mr. Jones for his mechanic to meet me at the airport where I would receive the vehicle. During this time period, I continued to press Mr. Jones for a list of items that were completed on the car, however nothing was provided until 3 days prior to my departure date of June 27th, 2010. Additionally, Mr. Jones claimed that his mechanic had a family emergency and would not be able to meet me at the airport. The car would be left for me in the parking garage.
As part of the list of items completed on the car, Mr. Jones disclosed that the A/C was not operable. I immediately expressed concern over this, as the words used in his written description are such that all major mechanical systems should work. After a discussion with Mr. Jones regarding this issue via email and telephone, as well as the inability for the mechanic to meet me with the vehicle, I began to feel a bit concerned about the condition of the car. As such, I requested that we unwind the deal, and that Mr. Jones refund my money. I agreed to eat all expenses I had incurred to that point, including airfare to West Palm Beach. Mr. Jones, who originally claimed that he sold his vehicles under a trading company so he could buy / sell more than 4 vehicles a year, claimed that he needed to speak with his shareholders about such a request. The text below is what I received in response from Mr. Jones regarding my refund request:
“We are sorry you are unhappy with your recent purchase. If you refer back to your bill of sale you had three days before payment was due which was your right to cancel privilege we extended to you. You had opportunities to inspect the vehicle or have it sent out to an independent mechanic for inspection before you exercised a contract to purchase it. We warranted to you that we had good and marketable title which has been property provided to you. We had no knowledge of any hidden defects in and to the Vehicle, and believed to the best of our knowledge that the Vehicle being sold was in good operating condition. Said Vehicle was otherwise sold in “as is “condition and where currently located. We offered you the courtesy of limited storing for your vehicle at no cost to you. We are going to have to decline your verbal request for a full refund on your transaction dated 6/3/10 as your right to cancel has expired. Your vehicle will be left at the airport and arrangements have been made on your behalf with the sheriffs department and the operators of the parking deck so it will not be ticketed or towed since it will not have any licenses plates. Again we are sorry that you are currently unhappy with your Vehicle purchase.”
I arrived on the 27th of June to pick up the vehicle. Prior to discussing the condition of the vehicle, I will list the items boldfaced in the vehicle description:
Pristine and stunning 1984 BMW M6
The interior is as new as the exterior and was also redone with in the last 100 miles.
The suspension was also redone with new bilstein sport shocks and new steering linkages.
The engine has also been serviced and checked out by mechanic.
Anything I could think of I had done to the car. I don’t know of anything the car needs.
Upon my initial inspection, I noted the following:
Cracked dashboard
Missing interior trim pieces
Paintjob: Painted over trim, poor job of masking (i.e. the lip inside the fuel door was not painted, among others)
Wires hanging from below the driver’s kickpanel
Missing hood strut
Upon startup and on my first drive, I additionally noted:
Odometer inoperable
Steering clunk indicative of a broken steering box mount
Several dash warning lights, including a flickering inspection light, and the brake failure light
Clunk from right front strut
Rear windows would not operate
Dust dropped from the headliner.
As I drove north, I attempted to contact Mr. Jones via telephone to discuss the condition of the vehicle, as it was not as described. He did not answer, and I left several voice mails. After stopping for gas about 200mi north of West Palm Beach, I noted that there were bubbles in the coolant reservoir. I checked the oil and did not notice any foam, but knew that this was indicative of a head gasket failure. I contacted several forum members, and located a reputable shop in Gainesville, Florida to have the vehicle inspected. I was able to nurse the car the remaining 60 miles to Gainesville, where I booked into a hotel, and tried to figure out what to do.
Mr. Jones returned my phone call that evening, and I listed off the issues with the car. I requested that he refund my purchase price, and I offered to split the cost of shipping from Gainesville to either his location in Alabama. He requested that I send him a list via email, and he would get back to me. I complied, sending the following list via email:
Cracked dash
Sunroof inop
Sunroof motor access panel missing
Trim piece that that above fits into, loose.
Headliner drops dust particles (backing is pulverized)
Rear windows would not roll up (front left switch also about to fail)
One hood strut missing
Hood does not align.
Drivers door handle trim piece fell off when I went to open the door.
Seats will not flip forward to access back seat
Dented passenger side chrome trim (above window)
Fluid leak from below timing cover area (no jack, so I cant look much further)
Check panel warning lights illuminated: brake light, windshield washer fluid
Left turn signal bulb out (presumably...it flashes very fast)
WWF container empty and loose, no sensor attached to it
Brake failure dashboard light illuminated occasionally
Inspection light flashed occasional during highway operation
AC inop
OBC inop
Odometer inop
Foam in coolant reservior after driving
Steering box mount loose (presumably...I can hear the clunk when I turn the wheel occasionally)
Radio barely op (will not go above a very low volume) Trim panel missing from above glovebox interior
Paintjob: Painted on top of trim, didnt paint lip around fuel door
Unable to open vehicle with passenger door. Key will not turn.
Here is the response I received the following morning:
Your return request on the 1984 BMW M6 has been denied. If you wanted a brand new BMW M6 you should have gone to your local BMW dealer and purchased a new one for $100,000 plus and it would have included a warranty.
Later that day, I took the car to Continental Imports for independent documentation of the issues the vehicle has. Below are scans of the vehicle inspection.
Several other items were identified during the inspection. The bilstein struts that were placed on the car, while not in horrible shape, were not new. Additionally, there is substantial rust on the underbody of the car, as shown below.
With this information, I sent Mr. Jones another correspondence, again requesting a refund of the purchase price, stating that I believed we could settle this without escalation. I received no response.
After retaining a lawyer, Mr. Jones was sent a demand letter, again requesting that the matter be settled without further legal action. This letter was sent on July 16th, 2010. I have received no response.
Mr. Jones, I trust you will not ignore the summons.
Should you have any advice regarding this situation, please contact me via pm. By posting this information, I make no statements or judgments about the character or business practices of Kevin Jones (KTJ Trading, Inc.). I have documentation of everything stated in this thread, and am stating what has transpired up to this point regarding this specific transaction. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Ed
The purpose of this thread is to provide information to the community regarding my purchase process of a 1984 M635CSI from a member of our E24 community, Kevin Jones, aka BMW Performance on Bimmerforums.com. I am unsure of his handles on Mye28.com and BigCoupe.com. Mr. Jones sells vehicles under the corporation name KTJ Trading, Inc. The contact information for Mr. Jones is as follows:
Kevin Jones
100 Seddon Farms Drive
Pell City, AL 35128-7474
Alabama Dealer’s License #:54RL36184
Telephone: 256-490-XXXX, 205-552-XXXX
The vehicle was originally posted for sale in the thread below:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... ?t=1464202
The text from the corresponding Ebay ad is quoted below:
“Pristine and stunning 1984 BMW M6. This car was only sold in Europe so it is very rare to find in the US. The M6 was heralded in 1984 as an absolute supercar and is still on several "Top 10" lists as one of the best cars ever. This is partially because of their rarity, as only 3,283 (per BMW M Registry) E24 chassis M6's were built from 12/83 through 12/88. This one is car number 213. These cars were hand built and were the true pinnacles of engineering at that time. This car is one of only 200 listed on the BMW M Registry. The hardware is truly world-class, beginning with a hand built inline 6 cylinder. The 5-speed transmission is what you expect in a flagship BMW and the 50/50 weight balance is more remarkable and communicative than many modern cars. One magazine article recognized this generation of M6 as "the absolute best, when BMW applied a 'no holds barred' philosophy to the hardware to create the finest supercar they could build." The modern M Editions to some, feel disconnected and overly subdued. The sensation of driving this car is much like that of a modern 911. You absolutely feel a connection to what each tire is doing and get feedback through the steering wheel, seats, and transmission. This is not a car you drive so much as you put it on and it becomes an extension of you.
The car has less than 100 miles on a brand new paint job. The chassis has only 110,000 miles on it making this an extremely low mileage example. At roughly 4,250 miles per year, the car has been exercised just enough to keep the condition as you see it in the pictures.
The interior is as new as the exterior and was also redone with in the last 100 miles. You would never guess this car is from 1984. This car has the very rare factory recaro seats in it. It is very hard to find them as very few cars were ordered with that option as they look very similar to the bmw seats. The easiest way to tell the difference is the BMW sport seats have a separate back piece where as the real recaro seats are one piece with no removable back. It also has rear head rests which were not available in the United State. I have never seen another Euro M6 with both options.
The suspension was also redone with new bilstein sport shocks and new steering linkages. The engine has also been serviced and checked out by mechanic. Anything I could think of I had done to the car. I don’t know of anything the car needs. I have way more than I am selling it for but it is time to move it to a new home. The person acquiring this vehicle will have one of the finest cars ever built and somebody is going to go home with it since it is NO RESERVE.
I request a $500 nonrefundable deposit within 24 hours and the rest by wire or cash. If you are a foreign buyer I can get it to the port or where ever needed. This is a vintage car with no warranty written or implied. Happy bidding and good luck “
There is a lot of fluff in the ad regarding the model of the vehicle, but I have boldfaced the important lines that describe the condition of the car. Impressed with the description of the vehicle, knowing that Mr. Jones has owned and sold a number of the vehicles over the years, and believing him to be an upstanding member of the community, I contacted him via telephone May 30th, 2010 to discuss the possibility of purchasing the car. At this point in time, the car was still on Ebay, but the auction had not ended. There were no bids on the vehicle.
Mr. Jones and I spoke at length about the condition of the vehicle via telephone and email over the next several days. I inquired about rust on the vehicle, to which he stated “I had it painted a month ago, and would not have gone through the trouble on a rust bucket.” Mr. Jones communicated that he had not seen the car in person, but it was located at his mechanic’s shop, a person by the name of Zane Topher (sp – I never saw the name in writing, only heard it verbally), in south Florida. Mr. Jones claimed this individual was an expert with these types of vehicles and had performed the work that had been described in the ad. Based upon these discussions we agreed to a price of $13,000 for the vehicle, and Mr. Jones ended the auction early. Proceeding in good faith based upon the description Mr. Jones had provided verbally and in writing, I wired him the money on June 3rd, 2010 and agreed to either ship the vehicle home to Flagstaff or drive it out of West Palm Beach, FL, the location of the car.
Over the next several weeks, I looked into shipping the vehicle, and the estimates were quite high. As such, I decided that I would drive the car back. Having experience with these vehicles, I started acquiring extra equipment for the trip, because as we all know, things break on these cars, even if they are in excellent condition. I coordinated a time with Mr. Jones for his mechanic to meet me at the airport where I would receive the vehicle. During this time period, I continued to press Mr. Jones for a list of items that were completed on the car, however nothing was provided until 3 days prior to my departure date of June 27th, 2010. Additionally, Mr. Jones claimed that his mechanic had a family emergency and would not be able to meet me at the airport. The car would be left for me in the parking garage.
As part of the list of items completed on the car, Mr. Jones disclosed that the A/C was not operable. I immediately expressed concern over this, as the words used in his written description are such that all major mechanical systems should work. After a discussion with Mr. Jones regarding this issue via email and telephone, as well as the inability for the mechanic to meet me with the vehicle, I began to feel a bit concerned about the condition of the car. As such, I requested that we unwind the deal, and that Mr. Jones refund my money. I agreed to eat all expenses I had incurred to that point, including airfare to West Palm Beach. Mr. Jones, who originally claimed that he sold his vehicles under a trading company so he could buy / sell more than 4 vehicles a year, claimed that he needed to speak with his shareholders about such a request. The text below is what I received in response from Mr. Jones regarding my refund request:
“We are sorry you are unhappy with your recent purchase. If you refer back to your bill of sale you had three days before payment was due which was your right to cancel privilege we extended to you. You had opportunities to inspect the vehicle or have it sent out to an independent mechanic for inspection before you exercised a contract to purchase it. We warranted to you that we had good and marketable title which has been property provided to you. We had no knowledge of any hidden defects in and to the Vehicle, and believed to the best of our knowledge that the Vehicle being sold was in good operating condition. Said Vehicle was otherwise sold in “as is “condition and where currently located. We offered you the courtesy of limited storing for your vehicle at no cost to you. We are going to have to decline your verbal request for a full refund on your transaction dated 6/3/10 as your right to cancel has expired. Your vehicle will be left at the airport and arrangements have been made on your behalf with the sheriffs department and the operators of the parking deck so it will not be ticketed or towed since it will not have any licenses plates. Again we are sorry that you are currently unhappy with your Vehicle purchase.”
I arrived on the 27th of June to pick up the vehicle. Prior to discussing the condition of the vehicle, I will list the items boldfaced in the vehicle description:
Pristine and stunning 1984 BMW M6
The interior is as new as the exterior and was also redone with in the last 100 miles.
The suspension was also redone with new bilstein sport shocks and new steering linkages.
The engine has also been serviced and checked out by mechanic.
Anything I could think of I had done to the car. I don’t know of anything the car needs.
Upon my initial inspection, I noted the following:
Cracked dashboard
Missing interior trim pieces
Paintjob: Painted over trim, poor job of masking (i.e. the lip inside the fuel door was not painted, among others)
Wires hanging from below the driver’s kickpanel
Missing hood strut
Upon startup and on my first drive, I additionally noted:
Odometer inoperable
Steering clunk indicative of a broken steering box mount
Several dash warning lights, including a flickering inspection light, and the brake failure light
Clunk from right front strut
Rear windows would not operate
Dust dropped from the headliner.
As I drove north, I attempted to contact Mr. Jones via telephone to discuss the condition of the vehicle, as it was not as described. He did not answer, and I left several voice mails. After stopping for gas about 200mi north of West Palm Beach, I noted that there were bubbles in the coolant reservoir. I checked the oil and did not notice any foam, but knew that this was indicative of a head gasket failure. I contacted several forum members, and located a reputable shop in Gainesville, Florida to have the vehicle inspected. I was able to nurse the car the remaining 60 miles to Gainesville, where I booked into a hotel, and tried to figure out what to do.
Mr. Jones returned my phone call that evening, and I listed off the issues with the car. I requested that he refund my purchase price, and I offered to split the cost of shipping from Gainesville to either his location in Alabama. He requested that I send him a list via email, and he would get back to me. I complied, sending the following list via email:
Cracked dash
Sunroof inop
Sunroof motor access panel missing
Trim piece that that above fits into, loose.
Headliner drops dust particles (backing is pulverized)
Rear windows would not roll up (front left switch also about to fail)
One hood strut missing
Hood does not align.
Drivers door handle trim piece fell off when I went to open the door.
Seats will not flip forward to access back seat
Dented passenger side chrome trim (above window)
Fluid leak from below timing cover area (no jack, so I cant look much further)
Check panel warning lights illuminated: brake light, windshield washer fluid
Left turn signal bulb out (presumably...it flashes very fast)
WWF container empty and loose, no sensor attached to it
Brake failure dashboard light illuminated occasionally
Inspection light flashed occasional during highway operation
AC inop
OBC inop
Odometer inop
Foam in coolant reservior after driving
Steering box mount loose (presumably...I can hear the clunk when I turn the wheel occasionally)
Radio barely op (will not go above a very low volume) Trim panel missing from above glovebox interior
Paintjob: Painted on top of trim, didnt paint lip around fuel door
Unable to open vehicle with passenger door. Key will not turn.
Here is the response I received the following morning:
Your return request on the 1984 BMW M6 has been denied. If you wanted a brand new BMW M6 you should have gone to your local BMW dealer and purchased a new one for $100,000 plus and it would have included a warranty.
Later that day, I took the car to Continental Imports for independent documentation of the issues the vehicle has. Below are scans of the vehicle inspection.
Several other items were identified during the inspection. The bilstein struts that were placed on the car, while not in horrible shape, were not new. Additionally, there is substantial rust on the underbody of the car, as shown below.
With this information, I sent Mr. Jones another correspondence, again requesting a refund of the purchase price, stating that I believed we could settle this without escalation. I received no response.
After retaining a lawyer, Mr. Jones was sent a demand letter, again requesting that the matter be settled without further legal action. This letter was sent on July 16th, 2010. I have received no response.
Mr. Jones, I trust you will not ignore the summons.
Should you have any advice regarding this situation, please contact me via pm. By posting this information, I make no statements or judgments about the character or business practices of Kevin Jones (KTJ Trading, Inc.). I have documentation of everything stated in this thread, and am stating what has transpired up to this point regarding this specific transaction. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Ed
