Cummins VE cam plate

[CoyoteStarfish]

Anyone here have a source for stock cam plates from early cummins VE injection pumps?

I think I'm going to post on the first-gen Dodge/Cummins forums asking for cam-plates that have been taken out in favor of performance ones. What should we be willing to pay for these?

[Frybrid 524td]

What's wrong with your cam plate? They share the same pump as the 524 but I have never looked into sourcing internal parts, just seals.

[CoyoteStarfish]

The cummins cam plate has a larger lift in its duration due to it being a larger motor.

Take a look at these two cam plates from VW motors..

1.6L on the left, 1.9L on the right.

Larger lift = more fuel = more oomf! At least, when combined with a larger turbo and an adequate intercooler.

Right now my list looks something like this:
5-speed transmission swap
Complete engine rebuild
IP Rebuild
Cummins cam-disk/plate
4200RPM governor spring
Injector rebuild and calibration
HE351VE Turbocharger
Front mount intercooler

[Frybrid 524td]

Wow. That is a serious to-do list. With the increased power you're going to have you'd better install head studs as well. I picked up a set from Raceware.


It may be worth contacting http://www.rocken-tech.com/ to see if they can source the cam plate you're looking for. That's quite a difference b/w the VW cam plates.

I'm excited to see how your project unfolds. Do you have a HP target you're aiming for? I just don't know how much these heads can take.

Did you build a custom IC setup or find a kit?

Isn't our stock governor spring 2800rpms? I've thought of stepping up to a 3200rpm or 3800 rpm spring eventually. 4200rpm?!

Are you having your injectors modified to take advantage of all the extra fuel your IP will be able to pump?

Have you modified your fuel pin? I'm looking around for a performance one myself. I'd like to keep my stock one in case I need to switch back.

[CoyoteStarfish]

I've bee considering head studs near the end of the project.

Rocken seems to have the plates I want, but at a premium price.. I need to talk to someone with a 1st generation Cummins/Dodge who has swapped out their camplate for a performance one. The stock cam plate will deliver more than enough fuel for me.

Target HP? I would be happy with 250-275HP or whenever I can keep up with the majority of cars on the road easily. Maybe even beat a few from time to time.

Gonna do a custom intercooler kit. Probably out of scrap parts, as usual.

Not sure what our stock springs are. If our stock is 2,500 I might only bump it up to 3,200. 4,200 springs were just the first thing I found for sale.

I think I'm going to buy a modified fuel pin but as it stands my fuel pin is removed. And the back of my car is black.

[Frybrid 524td]

Yeah, the Rocken stuff is pricey.

I looked into getting a Denny T fuel pin but apparently the Cummins fuel pins are a bit larger than those found in our cars and VWs. I found a post on cumminsforum comparing the cummins and VW pins but of course I cannot find it now. Keep us posted on your planned improvements, I'd like to do a few of them myself.

It may also be worth dropping Myna Diesel a line and asking them a few questions. mynadiesel@gmail.com

[Frybrid 524td]

Antti from Mynä Diesel tells me that the stock distributor head on our version of the VE pump is the limiting factor in HP gains. The best he says that can be achieved w/o swapping in a different distributor head is apparently 180hp.

[CoyoteStarfish]

That sounds about right given what I've read on the Cummins forum (www.cumminsforum.com).

I'm gathering info right now on a 12mm head swap. Dieselboost and a few others say that the steeper cam-disks cause high-end RPM problems in most applications because the longer stroke at high RPM makes it difficult to fill the plunger cavity.

While this makes sense.. someone else told me as long as you supply enough fuel volume and pressure with a quality lift pump you can run a 4mm cam (on a Cummins) all day long.

I think with a nice high volume lift pump and a fuel regulator set at around 12PSI running a 2.8mm or 3.2mm (STOCK for a Cummins) isn't too unrealistic.

Those guys at Myna are amazing. I wish I could just send them my IP and let them do their magic. But not for the prices I've heard from the Mercedes OM617 guys. Not right now anyway.

[DieselBoost]

now when i noticed all this...

mynädiesel is professional for row type dieselpumps (used in mercs) but they do rotary type pumps too...

all high powered small diesel engines are with rowpumps.
exceptionally 4cylinder engines and under that.

it is hard to tell technical things with my english and im not specialist with injectionpumps...but i try.

so when using rotary pump with 6cyl engine which runs 5000rpm or higher, there is phenomenon called....or i dont knew real word...but i try describe it.

so in high rpm rotorhead starts float caused camplate spinning too fast... and rotorhead doesnt make full stroke. like engine valves with soft valve springs in very high RPM.

this can be solved with stiffer springs or shim plates.
but when there is lot of rpm they cant help either.

you cant use super stiff springs..... pump body can explode under spring load and distribution head cant take those forces.... and timing belt snaps easily.
imagine what pump bearing must take with those springs.

in 4cyl engines there is no this problem because there is only 4"hills" in camplate.....and rotorhead can do full stroke.

Steeper camplate has own problems..... huge forces to pump and distribution head..

imagine that what happens when your engine is running about 6000rpm with that and bigger rotorhead.

steep camplates works finely in low rpm engines like cummins.

and rotary pump injection cant be never fast like in row pump
and when you want power.....injection must be in very short window.

only way if you want run with rotary pump is get bigger rotorhead.

i have cummins 12mm head with extreme mods in pump.
no one has tested 14mm head in small engines....
but there is again risk with distributor head ( when im telling distributorhead im meaning in finnish (Jakopää) google it and you understand what im meaning.

so little lesson for all.

i going to test what 12mm rotorhead can produce in my car
Power goal is about 340hp but i fear that the rotary pump can produce that.

so if not.....next step is to fit mynädiesel mercedes pump in my car with 7mm plungers.

if my dreams come true.....i get first m21 engined superturbo bmw in world.

[DieselBoost]

and here is pics for comparing

inline pump picture is from end look for the camshaft.....and imagine how short is injection window...
and in 6cyl engine there is 6plungers each for every cyl...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Ii1ukGkfijY/Sqo4q ... imgmax=800

and here is the rotary....
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~jag/vw/eng ... Small2.GIF