E28 M5 Dyno runs.... modified engine. Added photos 1/11

[M5BB]

Well I finally got to the dyno to tweak my moded engine that I rebuilt 2 years ago. Wow time flies.

This engine has CP pistons and rings that are 11:1 (approx)
The exhaust side of the head was cleaned up. (ported)
The cams are from a S38 B36 M5 engine (E34) and are at factory settings. No retard or advance.
Stock rods, crank and valves.
Euro headers.
Miller MAF and tunable WAR chip.
UUC exhaust and VSR1 Cats.
Stock ignition, injectors and FPR.

With the high compression we had to remove some advance from the GENII Miller MAF chip to prevent detonation.
But because this engine breathes so well the output was right near my target. I was hoping for 300RWHP.
As you can see from the Dyno graphs I got 294.57 RWHP and 258.42 torque.



This was on a Dynojet at Balanced Performance in Sugar Hill GA and was tuned by Ed Senf a professional tuner that is currently the tuner for the Rum Bum BMW Continental Tire car. Has also done Bimmer World and some Turner BMW's.

The drivetrain loss percentage they use for this vintage BMW and the Dynojet is 17%. Run those numbers and you get
344.64 HP at the crank and torque is 302.35
I'm pretty happy with that for a normally aspirated engine.
This is really just an M88 Euro with better pistons and some head work with modern maf and tuning.

Here's the link.
You are hearing the UUC exhaust too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHOvq3FSTs

Couple shots at the Dyno- Added 1/11
Ed tuning with the laptop and the WAR chip.

[mooseheadm5]

Now THAT is about what I am talking!

[Tucker]

Excellent! Cool to hear you had Ed do it, his tuning abilities were always well regarded in World Challenge. Were they actually able to calculate driveline drag on rolldown?

[Randomg]

Very cool, I have something to shoot for some day.

[Matt]

wow!!

you have videos of the runs with good sound? does the car sound glorious?

[Philo]

Very Nice.., let' see if I can beat your numbers !

POST THE VIDEO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ElGuappo]

I bet it sounds like Efficient German Sex...

[Mark in Toronto]

The drivetrain loss percentage they use for this vintage BMW and the Dynojet is 17%. Run those numbers and you get
344.64 HP at the crank and torque is 302.35
I'm pretty happy with that for a normally aspirated engine.
This is really just an M88 Euro with better pistons and some head work.

Gary, you should be really happy with those numbers. Thanks for sharing and in the future I will add some numbers from my car. Mark

[Eddie in TO]

Thanks for sharing that information. Those figures are sure impressive for an e28 chassis. It must be a real hoot!

The drivetrain loss percentage they use for this vintage BMW and the Dynojet is 17%. Run those numbers and you get
344.64 HP at the crank and torque is 302.35
I'm pretty happy with that for a normally aspirated engine.
This is really just an M88 Euro with better pistons and some head work.

Gary, you should be really happy with those numbers. Thanks for sharing and in the future I will add some numbers from my car. Mark

Mark,
It would be interesting to see how strong those MM engines are.
Have you dynoed the badboy yet?
If not, I'd be interested in running the E12 through the dyno as well to obtain giggle figures.

[Mark in Toronto]

Thanks for sharing that information. Those figures are sure impressive for an e28 chassis. It must be a real hoot!

The drivetrain loss percentage they use for this vintage BMW and the Dynojet is 17%. Run those numbers and you get
344.64 HP at the crank and torque is 302.35
I'm pretty happy with that for a normally aspirated engine.
This is really just an M88 Euro with better pistons and some head work.

Gary, you should be really happy with those numbers. Thanks for sharing and in the future I will add some numbers from my car. Mark

Mark,
It would be interesting to see how strong those MM engines are.
Have you dynoed the badboy yet?
If not, I'd be interested in running the E12 through the dyno as well to obtain giggle figures.

Not yet Eddie. Possibly before the end of this year's driving season, just as long as my MM motor does not blow up before the snow flies. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



And as I said before, Gary should be very please with those numbers.

[M5BB]

Thanks guys for the compliments.
I am very pleased and the car is a blast to drive.

Hopefully by the end of the day i will have the video on
YouTube.
I loaded it the other day but it seemed like it was not running correctly but this is the first time i have put anything on YouTube. My son told me you have to wait a few hours to view it. I just uploaded it (took and hour) so give it a chance and i will post the link.

Tucker asked about the driveline drag. They can't actually calculate it but use factors for different cars and dynos.
Like the E-28's have two piece drive shafts and half shaft axles.
All those joints add up.
The accepted number is 16-17%.
This has been discussed quite a bit on Bimmer Forums.

I knew Moosehead would like those numbers.

[M5BB]

I just added the link to the You Tube video to my original post above.

I'll put it here too.
Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHOvq3FSTs

[Matt]

Look, as far as I am concerned, _every_ S38B35 owner should do this.

If i understand correclty:
- high comp pistons
- stock euro headers
- "light" headwork ?
- stock B36 cams
- remove the AFM, go to customized/standalone EFI
- open up the exhaust a bit

You are making _90_ hp over stock numbers!

This has me completely re-thinking what i want to do with my (rear ended, still not repaired) M5.

[Eta power]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHOvq3FSTs

WOW, that is hot! Sounds great, keep up the good work!

[RoyW]

That sounds about right... my M5 track car dyno'd (a few years back) at 289 at the wheels (don't remember the torque). It's a S38b36 with euro headers, no CAT, B&B exhaust, 272 Schrick cams, lightweight fly, etc. Lots of fun!!

-RoyW

[Tucker]

Sounded great! I really wish you hadn't shared this because now I want to take my engine apart.

[GaAlpinaOwner]

Very nice Gary

[1st 5er]

Sweet numbers.

Enjoy the ride...

[klrskies]

Very impressive results!

I'm wondering how much the lower compression stock U.S. pistons actually hurts top end HP if one has to take much timeing out though...?

The additional cam overlap from the b36 cams is probably helped a bit by the compression increase at low/mid range rpm's, but I can only get 93 octane locally at the pump...just wondering how much the high compression pistons are worth?

Ken

[mooseheadm5]

I would say that this amount of power would not be possible with everything but the HC pistons.

Paul Burke can make you lower compression pistons if you are worried about fuel quality.

[Rich Euro M5]

Very impressive results!

I'm wondering how much the lower compression stock U.S. pistons actually hurts top end HP if one has to take much timeing out though...?

The additional cam overlap from the b36 cams is probably helped a bit by the compression increase at low/mid range RPM, but I can only get 93 octane locally at the pump...just wondering how much the high compression pistons are worth?

Ken

93 octane US fuel (Ron + MON / 2) is equivilent to European 98 octane RON (Research Octane Number). So 10.5:1 should be fine on 93 octane pump premium. If you can get Sunoco where you live even better, it's 94 octane.

Rich

[Matt]

assuming you had full standalone (a megasquirt), what's the highest static compression you'd run on an S38 B35 if the best gas you could get was 91 octane?

is 10.5 too high? What bout 10.2? Would it make more sense to stick with 10.5 and then plan on keeping octane booster in the trunk?

[klrskies]

This is quite impressive. What compression ratio could be used with a high grade methanol content E85, and with that fuel, what output could be achieved on a similar engine, set up for that fuel?

Ken

[paul burke]

Very impressive results!


The additional cam overlap from the b36 cams is probably helped a bit by the compression increase at low/mid range RPM.
Ken

Overlap has very little to do with building low and mid range torque, however a retarded intake cam or a late intake closing has everthing to do with it. When you retard the intake cam (leave exhaust where it is) it decreases overlap yet kills low speed torque.
The longer you leave the intake valve open ABDC the more charge you give back to the intake tract in the beginning of the comp. stroke (This is positive pressure created by the piston, exhaust valve is already closed) which results in a lower dynamic running pressure and less torque. Static comp. ratio by itself does not dictate fuel requirements.

Paul

[klrskies]

Overlap has very little to do with building low and mid range torque?
One doesn't want a compression increase to compensate for the loss of dynamic compression from cams with increased overlap?
A fuels' detonation tolerance plays no part in determining compression ratio?
Wondering what could be accomplished with High content e-85?

Ken

[paul burke]

Overlap has very little to do with building low and mid range torque?

Ken

Lets start with this one. Why would you believe overlap significantly effects low and midrange torque? For discussion purposes lets say "low and midrange" equates to 1800-3800 rpm.

Paul

[Black Steel]

Thanks guys for the compliments.
I am very pleased and the car is a blast to drive.

Hopefully by the end of the day i will have the video on
YouTube.
I loaded it the other day but it seemed like it was not running correctly but this is the first time i have put anything on YouTube. My son told me you have to wait a few hours to view it. I just uploaded it (took and hour) so give it a chance and i will post the link.

Tucker asked about the driveline drag. They can't actually calculate it but use factors for different cars and dynos.
Like the E-28's have two piece drive shafts and half shaft axles.
All those joints add up.
The accepted number is 16-17%.
This has been discussed quite a bit on Bimmer Forums.

I knew Moosehead would like those numbers.

Well done

I have read so much about updating these engines but have always come back to the fact that a compression increase is the best way. This is what the euro boys are doing
I have seen these engines being run as high as 12:1!
Most are well over 400bhp know!!

If you look at how BMW get the power out of the later six cylinder engines you will see that the compression ratio has increased with each application.

Cam wise you can stick all types of cam profiles in but 9 times out of 10 you always loose to much at the bottom end.
What people don't realise either is that over a certain cam profile the head has to be machined just so that the cam can turn

Your next step should be a carbon airbox
I already no what type of numbers you will get with one fitted.

There is a reason why I picked the b36 for my car

[klrskies]

Overlap has very little to do with building low and mid range torque?

Ken

Lets start with this one. Why would you believe overlap significantly effects low and midrange torque? For discussion purposes lets say "low and midrange" equates to 1800-3800 rpm.

Paul

OK, compression can be increased to compensate for lowered dynamic compression ratio due to overlap increase from longer duration cams, occuring in the rpm range where the cam/tuned intake systems are not in phase. Here's an intrersting calculator for the complex DCR... http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

One might be better off discussing cylinder pressure prior to ignition so as to account for more of the varibles.

And again, What does the forum feel is possible if hi ethanol content E85 were used? Lets discuss my question first...then go off on a tangent course, or launch an appropriate thread on the topic. The results of this build are impressive, and it leaves me curious what's possible with with E-85 and perhaps E-100 fuel. I'm sure you have a good idea whats required and possible for an engine built to use these fuels Paul.

Ken

[paul burke]

Ken, study the calculator, the last entry is intake valve closing ABDC. Like I said in my earlier post the intake closing has much more influence relative to dynamic pressure than the opening (which is where overlap time occurs).

Have run comp. ratios over 15-1 on E85 but like I said static compression by itself is not the dictator.

Paul

[Philo]

Look, as far as I am concerned, _every_ S38B35 owner should do this.

If i understand correclty:
- high comp pistons
- stock euro headers
- "light" headwork ?
- stock B36 cams
- remove the AFM, go to customized/standalone EFI
- open up the exhaust a bit

You are making _90_ hp over stock numbers!

Agree.., but Gary's approach meant he had to tear down the engine and spend 8-10k to put it back together and add the mods.., the WAR Chip, headers, pistons, cams, etc... Most stock B35 owners wont rip into their engine for 90hp.. But will if it suffers from internal ailments like Gary's did.

I still think the best bang for the buck for a stocker is a custom burned chip. Anything more tends to turn into a slippery slop scenario. Taken from first hand experience of course.

I'm going down the same road as Gary but with a 86x95 platform. I hope I see better numbers...