MyE28.com

About 6 months ago I got a Nissan Versa for a weekend. A painful experience which brought to mind an old Car and Driver line about a FIAT which was, torch this sucker.

The seat was literally painful. Felt like my ass was on the ground with my knees a foot above. Overactive power locks which wanted to lock whenever I started moving. Let me decide when to lock the goddamn doors. I tried to kill them by constant cycling and could in fact get them to fail, but only briefly. A quick internet search told how to disarm that nanny. The engine/tranny (A/T, it was a rental) either downshifted right now, regardless if I wanted it to or not, or wouldn't, even with my foot planted. MPG about 30 which I thought was a little lacking. Good sized trunk. Overall I'd give it an F.

Last month, a Toyota Corolla. This was not your fathers Corolla, I swear it seemed 5 series sized even though spec's say it's not that big. But much bigger than it used to be with a huge trunk, a good thing IMO. Car somewhat less so. Not good seats, not awful, but definitely not good. Headlights were automatic high beams which meant I had to turn them on during the day not to look like a doofus and be an asshole to other drivers. Automatic power locks on this thing too, but at least once unlocked didn't try to relock at every stoplight. Lousy slushbox, it would downshift at anything over half pedal if you wanted it to or not. Funky HVAC controls and HVAC at that, A/C wasn't even very good and it was difficult to get comfortable. And like all remotely recent Toyotas it wanted to fog up the windows even without being on recirc air. You've got to pull a little lever by the drivers seat to unlatch the fuel door, not even anything nearby like say in the trunk, let alone powered like German cars in the 70's. Got about 33MPG which was ok, but not stunning for the driving I was doing. Overall a C-.

Yeah, I'm BMW centric, but the Hyundai's I've rented in recent years have been much better than the Toyota/Nissans. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. And the much maligned 4HP22 slushbox was far superior to the tranny in either of these two cars. Not much progress in 30 years.

Is there an economy car today that matches the eta in all categories?

I could get 32mpg in mine, if trying, with the 2.93 and a 5 speed. I drove it with comfort and later sport seats and either where better than most new cars. And regardless what many here say, it was fun to drive.

Son drives an auto eta and just loves it. (On a side note he managed to rip the muffler off so the car sounds like recording of a formula car- played at a much slower speed. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAA, then 2 minutes later shift, bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Then he's at the stop sign two doors down. )


I've heard Prius seats were designed using middle aged texts outlining Holy Torture Devices.

In the past few years we've rented a Ford crew cab truck that had the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in, and a Chrysler 300 that had the worst suspension. I'll stick with BMWs.

dj

I've lost faith in most cars. Visibility, comfort, interior quality, ergonomics, etc are all lacking in new cars. I can drive many hours in my E28s and E34 without having to stop just to walk around. I only stop for gas, perhaps food and hit the road again. I drove a Charger from Phoenix to Helena, MT and back and it was horridly uncomfortable. I encountered a road with a couple of turns and warped the brake rotors - and I'm not hard on brakes.

I had a rental Versa last week, and I didn't think it was all that bad. The seats were comfortable enough for a 200 mile round trip for me, and the radio worked fine - I didn't need any more from a vehicle that's basically an appliance. The one thing that was unusual is it was black...I can't remember the last time I had a rental car that was anything besides silver.

I noticed when I dropped it off at the end of the day that the Hertz store had a Fiat 500 in their fleet, the woman at the counter said they just got it in. Next time I'll try to get that one, just to see what it's like to drive.

stuartinmn wrote:... the Hertz store had a Fiat 500 in their fleet, the woman at the counter said they just got it in. Next time I'll try to get that one, just to see what it's like to drive.

Hope your not a 6'4" 220 lb'er like me, or you'll feel like a sardine and return it with a few head knots.

wkohler wrote:I've lost faith in most cars. Visibility, comfort, interior quality, ergonomics, etc are all lacking in new cars. I can drive many hours in my E28s and E34 without having to stop just to walk around. I only stop for gas, perhaps food and hit the road again. I drove a Charger from Phoenix to Helena, MT and back and it was horridly uncomfortable. I encountered a road with a couple of turns and warped the brake rotors - and I'm not hard on brakes.

I drove a Mazda 6 up the CA coast a couple weeks back. Your visibility comment is spot-on, mostly due to the high shoulder line and thick pillars. Safer in a crash = harder to avoid a crash ... Positive overall points were interior space (but the car is too big for my idea of a "mid-size sedan") and a monstrous trunk.

All that aside, while it was a stripper model, the car wasn't bad. Ergonomics were good, seats were decently comfortable, I got well over 30 mpg while pushing the (underpowered) car up Rte 1, and the handling, while numb, was vastly superior to the last Camry I drove. I'd buy something much better (and used) for my $23k, but it was not entirely unappealing as an appliance. Of course, Mazda has a miniscule market share, so even its good traits aren't recognized by most buyers.

-tammer

Tammer in Philly wrote:Your visibility comment is spot-on, mostly due to the high shoulder line and thick pillars.

Couldn't agree more

Tammer in Philly wrote:All that aside, while it was a stripper model, the car wasn't bad

I'd pay extra for that! How many did you get with it?

I was amazed that, in a 2010 Corolla, I was able to drive at 75mph with all four windows down and have a conversation without having to raise my voice. If I try that in the E28, I have to basically scream at the person sitting beside me.

JamusMcFamus wrote:I was amazed that, in a 2010 Corolla, I was able to drive at 75mph with all four windows down and have a conversation without having to raise my voice. If I try that in the E28, I have to basically scream at the person sitting beside me.

Slow down to 65 and you can do that just fine. Go to 55 and you can start whispering. In other news, I bought a motorcycle communicator so I don't have to shout through my helmet on track days.

Cactus wrote:

JamusMcFamus wrote:I was amazed that, in a 2010 Corolla, I was able to drive at 75mph with all four windows down and have a conversation without having to raise my voice. If I try that in the E28, I have to basically scream at the person sitting beside me.

Slow down to 65 and you can do that just fine. Go to 55 and you can start whispering. In other news, I bought a motorcycle communicator so I don't have to shout through my helmet on track days.

Haha, you said drive 55. That's funny.

ahab wrote:

Tammer in Philly wrote:Your visibility comment is spot-on, mostly due to the high shoulder line and thick pillars.

Couldn't agree more

+10000

My wife used to drive a Chrysler Pacifica, the belt line was so high and the placement and size of the B pillar so close to my head, that lane changes were frightening.

In terms of visibility, it felt like I was driving a '30's Ford 3 window with a big chop.

I've been given a 2012 Chevy Malibu to drive for the next 3 weeks. Less than 900 miles on the car. So far it's okay but boring. Nothing special. Quiet. Mostly comfortable. Not enough power at the go pedal. High trunk makes it difficult to see over the ass-end when backing up. If there's a trip odometer, I haven't found it yet. It's your typical midsize rental...ample for a business trip. I'd never buy one. Yeah, boring.

I just dropped off a 2010 Camry at LAX. Why people reward Toyota with money and buy those cars I have no idea. ZERO fun to drive - it handled like a Chevy and the interior was so spartan and plastic it hurt. Stereo was a 6/10 and the seats werent comfortable. I was thrilled to turn it back in.

I had a Chrysler 200 last week...you can start to see the MB influance. Interior is getting a LOT better, still below Ford but ahead of Chevy. Tons of power, good braking but it still handled like a domestic. I say keep your eyes on that line in the next 2-3 years...

mcm97 wrote:I had a Chrysler 200 last week...you can start to see the MB influance. Interior is getting a LOT better, still below Ford but ahead of Chevy. Tons of power, good braking but it still handled like a domestic. I say keep your eyes on that line in the next 2-3 years...

Likely to see Fiat influence, not M-B.

mcm97 wrote:I just dropped off a 2010 Camry at LAX. Why people reward Toyota with money and buy those cars I have no idea. ZERO fun to drive - it handled like a Chevy and the interior was so spartan and plastic it hurt. Stereo was a 6/10 and the seats werent comfortable. I was thrilled to turn it back in.

I had a Chrysler 200 last week...you can start to see the MB influance. Interior is getting a LOT better, still below Ford but ahead of Chevy. Tons of power, good braking but it still handled like a domestic. I say keep your eyes on that line in the next 2-3 years...

Fun to drive is not even on the radar of most people. I would guess the wants would be stylish (though not necessarly by my standards) affordable, reliable and peppy. Lower on the scale would be gas mileage and handling. Still lower I suspect would be long lasting and things like comfortable seats.

And no, those things are not what I look for in a car, at least not in that order.

What's the best rental to track?

1st 5er wrote:What's the best rental to track?

Find a place that rents Mustangs.

-tammer

1st 5er wrote:What's the best rental to track?

one without a GPS!

Coldswede wrote:

1st 5er wrote:What's the best rental to track?

one without a GPS!

True that. And you can track just about anything. I've seen more than one stock Honda Accord or Saab 9-3 being horsed around a track.

-tammer

I've heard back in the day Hertz Mustangs routinely showed up with evidence of roll bar installation and removal.

Mike W. wrote:I've heard back in the day Hertz Mustangs routinely showed up with evidence of roll bar installation and removal.

That is... awesome!

My wife's prior law firm used to represent American Honda regionally, and from her experience representing them I know that Honda will not sell cars to rental companies. (And if dealers were caught engaged in such sales, their allocations would be reduced, often two cars for every one sold.) And, each time I read one of these threads I am reminded of the wisdom of this decision. Rentals are always or at least often going to be the worst examples of a car -- both in terms of model and previous use / abuse. So while I believe what's been posted, I would tell those that would be considering one of the reviewed models here that he or she should base the decision on driving a new one equipped as you would purchase it from the dealer. If you are a serious buyer, there will be no issue with you even keeping a representative loaner overnight. That is a better way to go. Relying on impressions from rentals is potentially misleading. Also bear in mind that a car like a Nissan Versa can probably be had brand new for $15k or so, maybe less. I know Nissan sells one new car for $9999. That's not a lot of money for a new car, and you have to bear in mind that a lot of families really just need affordable transportation. I am not saying that either of these cars would be my first choice, but it is a big world out there and people's needs differ.

Coldswede wrote:

1st 5er wrote:What's the best rental to track?

one without a GPS!

A few years back some guy showed up to MSR is a brand new yellow Lambo. He couldnt drive it to save his life but he sure as hell was flogging it the first session. During the second session it dies on the far end of the track and gets flatbedded in. About 10 minutes after the car got back to the pit area another flatbed shows up to haul it off...we all naturally thought something broke. Nope. Later we found out the guy rented it for the weekend and the owners had GPS on the car and shut it down when they figured out what was going on. Never saw the guy again!

Interesting stragetic decision by Honda, I'd not heard of it before.

Rental cars aren't necessarily the best example, but I suspect most of my complaints were endemic to the breed. An on/off throttle impossible to feather, a cruise that only holds within 5MPH, uncomfortable HVAC, things like that aren't likely to change. And with less than 10K on the cars they shouldn't be worn out from rental service yet either.

There are many rental car review threads in this forum now, but I'm continuing from this one because it discusses a number of models.

I have recently put time in 3 rentals:
1) Nissan Versa (SV model I think, ~$16k new)
2) Chevy Cruze (1LT model, $21k)
3) Chevy Sonic (base LS model, ~14k new)


The Versa was a complete piece of trash. It is easily among the worst cars I have ever suffered through. I struggled to find any aspect I liked. Seats were bad, noise was awful, completely gutless. Ride was choppy and harsh, and while the car is light and should feel light, it completely lacked any sense of being nimble and the steering was wooden and dead. Getting into it was like a punishment. The AC worked well; that's about all I can say for it. I guess the fact that you can get a base model for $12k is also a benefit for people who want a new car on a tight budget.

The Cruze was surprisingly good. It had a blazing 138HP from a 1.4L motor and a "sport tuned" suspension. The thing is--it's pretty fun. Slow, yes, but not achingly, jarringly, painfully slow like the Versa, and it doesn't have to drop down 2 gears if you breath in the direction of the gas pedal. The ride is firm without being harsh, and body roll is pretty well-controlled. Pushing it to howling-tire status through on-ramps was accomplished predictably. Steering feedback is pretty good. The interior plastics are GM cheap, but not out of line for the price point (and a noticeable cut above both the Versa and the cheaper GM Sonic). Overall, it felt much closer to the level of the Ford Fiesta or a base Golf (obviously with a less-good interior and space utility) than the level of other GM small cars I've been in. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Then I got the Sonic, which was not surprising in any way. This was a fresh model with <1000 miles on the clock. It was the definition of cheap, boring, and reasonably competent. Miles better than the Versa in feeling like a package someone thought about, vs. a platform to just cut costs out of, but totally uninspiring. Whereas the Cruze had me saying more than once, "I didn't know GM could build a decent car at this price, and this is not bad!," the Sonic had me saying nothing at all. That said, I wasn't cursing it. The throttle produces more noise than thrust, but the fuel economy was better than the Versa's and the ride far less choppy, though a good bit less refined than the Cruze. I had the base LS model, which at $14k is cheaper than the Versa, and it's no contest which one I'd choose (well, I'd choose a Fiesta, but between the two the Nissan was way worse). I think when you're talking sub-$20k cars, "this thing didn't offend me" is a pretty good result, particularly as I was stepping out of the much better (and 30% pricier) Cruze.

-tammer