The ultimate automotive Planned Obsolescence?

[Mike W.]

This may be regional, it may not apply to people living in say Finland, Northern Canada, Alaska or tropical rain forests, but for those of us who often see sun, in at least the summer I've got to wonder.

Clearcoat. Gawd I hate that shit. When new, when good, it gives a nice shine, without wax as it doesn't oxidize. But IMO even when good, it doesn't look as good as a good single stage when it's good. And neglected after a few years it probably does look better than single stage. But wait, wait... Then it starts breaking down, first it won't quite shine up, then if still factory it turns to a dandruff look. Aftermarket will often peel in sheets. And I ask you this, how many cars in Pick and Pull have good paint? Ok, smog kills many in California, who knows how many E28s, but damn, if a car looks like shit, failing clearcoat, is it worth putting much into an otherwise sound car?

Where I am at least a cheap paint job is a thing of the past. I'm not sure if you could get even a super basic done for $2K. But that's not counting prep for sanding off the failing clearcoat! That's probably another thou. Labor, DA's and compressors don't come cheap, plus they have to primer it since they'll sand thru to bare metal.

Now metallics I kind of understand, maybe. I had a Toyota Celica long ago, 7 years old when I bought it IIRC and the paint was done. Smart me I broke out some polishing compound and in nothing flat I was down to primer! No clearcoat on that car. Rustoleum out of a rattle can would probably have been better paint. But paint has come a long way since then and what about solid colors?

I hear it's Calif and VOCs that require clearcoat. But I also see plenty of low VOC paint that doesn't require clear. I don't quite understand it, but it seems bodyshops really like clear and don't like single stage. Might be more than I know about, might be it's easier to spray and hide mistakes, might just be more money, I dunno.

But at this point, at least with BMWs and probably others, I suspect more cars go to the yard because they look like shit than because of mechanical failures.

[MLastovo]

Hey Mike,
So, what's the trick to keeping the clear-coat/paint in good nick on my SoCal-sun-afflicted e39 (some shade of silver) that lives outside?

Is it as simple as keeping it coated with wax? And if so, does the application of some version of the ubiquitous ceramic coating make the cut?

r/
D.

[stuartinmn]

You don't have to go so far as Finland or Alaska to avoid premature UV damage. I think the problem occurs mainly below 35 degrees or so latitude. I do see failing clearcoat here, but it's much less common.

[BMWCCA2]

Hard to avoid, unless you stick with old stuff like non-metallic E28s.
BMW started clear-coating even the non-metallic colors probably around 1992. By 1995 all BMW paint was two-stage with clear. I've even seen neglected Alpine White III paint have the clearcoat separate. Nothing lasts forever. I just hope the clear on my 2013 128i outlasts me. I'm 71 and the car is pushing twelve. There's a good chance!

[jdb]

Sure would be nice to even be able to use a single stage metallic, but I don't believe such an item exists anymore?
And with a complete paint being a unicorn now, it has taken some time to get a quality body shop to be willing
to paint my gutted E28,i.e. months of begging!!
I know painters like the clear coat for the ability to blend the new paint to the old paint.
But I did have my 323 done in single stage Alpine White..Sweet!

Time will tell if the new ceramic sealer products work over time, and abuse.

Jeff

[vinceg101]

Hey Mike,
So, what's the trick to keeping the clear-coat/paint in good nick on my SoCal-sun-afflicted e39 (some shade of silver) that lives outside?

Is it as simple as keeping it coated with wax? And if so, does the application of some version of the ubiquitous ceramic coating make the cut?

r/
D.

File this under "coulda-woulda-shoulda", but years ago the clear went on the roof of my E39. Sort of like re-evaluting your lifestyle in the wake of a bad medical exam/report, I went through the previous decade and chastised myself for not taking care of the paint on this car. Not washing it regularly, not polishing and waxing it nearly enough, and not keeping it covered. But this car lives outside, and in the winter, it's hard to keep it covered and out of the SoCal sun, air and rain. We watched the Honda succumb to this 'cancer' and while in excellent mechanical condition with incredibly low mileage, it looks like ass (not to mention is embarrassing to drive around my client's neighborhoods where the 'help' drive better cars this 1st Gen CR-V).

I ended up painting the roof and trunk lid that go around because I have this weird response to things like this. If my car starts to go and look bad, I start to not care about it; I stop caring about it, it goes downhill fast and since I'm a 'lifer' when it comes to cars, then I start to resent it. Conversely, my attitude is the exact opposite when it looks good. So I chose to invest further into this car and have those painted (what the hell, I said, I double-downed when I replaced the entire suspension system, what's a little more?).
The nose and rear end (and trunk again) got repainted following two minor accidents. The front valance was replaced once after it was damaged from a parking stop (low ground clearance issues), so the replacement was painted and it now looks like it has chicken pox as the primer is coming through in tiny little spots all over. Now the clear is failing on the rear quarter at the edges of the trunk opening. And on and on and on.

The only remedy is to bite the bullet and respray the entire car but I'm not investing that into this car (23 years old, 228K mi, Auto). So how to prevent the clear from failing in SoCal you ask? I don't know, keep it clean and keep it covered. Ceramic coating might hold some merit and maybe (maybe) I'll try that. That's all I got.

[Mike W.]

Hey Mike,
So, what's the trick to keeping the clear-coat/paint in good nick on my SoCal-sun-afflicted e39 (some shade of silver) that lives outside?

Is it as simple as keeping it coated with wax? And if so, does the application of some version of the ubiquitous ceramic coating make the cut?

r/
D.

I have no idea, I wish I knew.

You don't have to go so far as Finland or Alaska to avoid premature UV damage. I think the problem occurs mainly below 35 degrees or so latitude. I do see failing clearcoat here, but it's much less common.

Really? I'm at 38.8 and while it's not like Vegas or Phoenix, it's a real problem. You know Neil Young's album, Rust Never Sleeps? That's the way I feel about clearcoat, it's always getting ready to fail if it hasn't already. But what I don't get is why auto manufacturers all seem to use it when it's destined for failure. Likely out of warranty, but still, their product is going to look like crap, prematurely.

[vinceg101]

Really? I'm at 38.8 and while it's not like Vegas or Phoenix, it's a real problem. You know Neil Young's album, Rust Never Sleeps? That's the way I feel about clearcoat, it's always getting ready to fail if it hasn't already. But what I don't get is why auto manufacturers all seem to use it when it's destined for failure. Likely out of warranty, but still, their product is going to look like crap, prematurely.

Because car companies are in the business to sell new cars. Period.

[Mike W.]

Really? I'm at 38.8 and while it's not like Vegas or Phoenix, it's a real problem. You know Neil Young's album, Rust Never Sleeps? That's the way I feel about clearcoat, it's always getting ready to fail if it hasn't already. But what I don't get is why auto manufacturers all seem to use it when it's destined for failure. Likely out of warranty, but still, their product is going to look like crap, prematurely.

Because car companies are in the business to sell new cars. Period.

Yeah, which is my original hypothesis.

[gadget73]

Clear coat on neglected cars around here will do 10-15 years, which is about the point that the rust starts to really set in so its not worth caring about. The thing is you can neglect clearcoat for that long and it still looks fine. Ever see single stage that lives outdoors and hasn't been waxed in 10 years? Thats why they don't use it anymore.

basically park under cover and/or move away from the land of salt if you want your cars to last for a long time.

[Mike W.]

Clear coat on neglected cars around here will do 10-15 years, which is about the point that the rust starts to really set in so its not worth caring about. The thing is you can neglect clearcoat for that long and it still looks fine. Ever see single stage that lives outdoors and hasn't been waxed in 10 years? Thats why they don't use it anymore.

basically park under cover and/or move away from the land of salt if you want your cars to last for a long time.

Yeah, rust is only a rumor here, but California housing prices, read a lot of it being land prices, make covered parking a difficult option.

But in that same vein, rust used to be a huge problem, but the automakers have made huge strides there to minimize it, but paint seems to have gone backwards. There's still E28s with factory paint running around, solid colors, not clearcoat unless they're the proverbial barn find.

Single stage outdoors for a decade. Well, paint, good paint has gotten better and some colors like white's and tans actually do ok. And even more so are recoverable. Failing clearcoat has to be removed at a significant additional cost, single stage you can just do a quick sand for adhesion and paint right over it.

[vinceg101]

Single stage outdoors for a decade. Well, paint, good paint has gotten better and some colors like white's and tans actually do ok. And even more so are recoverable. Failing clearcoat has to be removed at a significant additional cost, single stage you can just do a quick sand for adhesion and paint right over it.

My guess is that lighter colors do better against the heat build-up vs. their darker counterparts; perhaps this aids in making the clear last longer as it doesn't get cooked from below(?).
You are starting to see automakers paint the roofs now white regardless of body color, mostly some select SUV's, but the idea is sound and has application. It is one reason we now have Cool Roof spec codes in construction now; lighter color roofing materials reflect heat and UV build-up reducing energy consumption and materials break-down.

[gadget73]

Clear coat on neglected cars around here will do 10-15 years, which is about the point that the rust starts to really set in so its not worth caring about. The thing is you can neglect clearcoat for that long and it still looks fine. Ever see single stage that lives outdoors and hasn't been waxed in 10 years? Thats why they don't use it anymore.

basically park under cover and/or move away from the land of salt if you want your cars to last for a long time.

Yeah, rust is only a rumor here, but California housing prices, read a lot of it being land prices, make covered parking a difficult option.

But in that same vein, rust used to be a huge problem, but the automakers have made huge strides there to minimize it, but paint seems to have gone backwards. There's still E28s with factory paint running around, solid colors, not clearcoat unless they're the proverbial barn find.

Single stage outdoors for a decade. Well, paint, good paint has gotten better and some colors like white's and tans actually do ok. And even more so are recoverable. Failing clearcoat has to be removed at a significant additional cost, single stage you can just do a quick sand for adhesion and paint right over it.

keep in mind most people don't keep cars long enough for that to be a problem or do much with their cars except maybe drive it through an automatic car wash from time to time. Things aren't built for us crazies who are driving 30+ year old stuff.

[Kerrvillian]

Worn out/flaking clear coat is a sign of a neglected car. Period. I've lived my entire life in Texas and we have more sun and heat than most other places in the country. Keeping your paint clean and waxed will get you decades out of the clear coat. Let it dry out and sunburn? Toast. It's all about how you take care of your crap, just like everything else. Bad paint is an inconvenience, not planned obsolescence.

You want to talk about actual "Planned Obsolescence"? Let's shift the discussion to VIN-coded electronic modules. NOTHING is going to send your car to the scrapyard faster than that bullsh*t.