E21

[caleb 87 535is]

So im buying a 1983 e21 320i for 1800. Just curious of what people think of these cars. The one I'm buying has a new engine in it. Im guessing from an e30 since its F.i. and not carbed.

[wkohler]

That's a step up since carbs were the biggest problem with E21s.

[jay]

That's a step up since carbs were the biggest problem with E21s.

Caleb,

You gotta do a little more research on the e21s. This thread won't get far with that first post.

[caleb 87 535is]

That's a step up since carbs were the biggest problem with E21s.

Caleb,

You gotta do a little more research on the e21s. This thread won't get far with that first post.

Im doing research on them. The engine in it is new its only got around 1k miles on it. And from what I can tell they were all carbed unless I'm endlessly missing the web page with that information. :/

[Bill in MN]

An '83 definatly has fuel injection.

AFAIK all US e21's used fuel injection and a quick search of realoem shows model year '77 320i as having CIS.

[snakebrain]

I think UK didn't get FI until somewhere early in the E30 run? There are lots of early 316 E30s (note the missing 'i') with a 1.8 on carbs (in which case the proper response is to retrofit FI and flog the carbs to some E21 deviant...)

[m-racer]

Cris is chuckling because he knows all E21's sold in the US were fuel injected. They were also injected in Europe except for the 320-6 as best as I know. Possible there were some versions I don't know about, but that's the facts on US E21's. All US E21's were 4 bangers. The 78-79 had larger displacement but a 4 speed manual. I don't remember what year BMW went to smaller displacement and the 5 spd. Google is your friend.

[Mr.3-5-7]

All US models had Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection, A.K.A. "CIS". It doesnt pulse the injectors, it just sprays all of them constantly. The 2.0L I-4 was from 77-79 and mated to a four speed gearbox. The 80-83 models came with a 1.8L some mated to a 4 and some mated to a 5 speed gearbox.

Then theres the "IS" versions which came with a lot of different options that set them apart from the normal ones.

If you are serious about getting one here is a link to the K-jet manual. Get to know it, it is your best friend besides the bf.c subforum.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch ... l-?page=40

[snakebrain]

Cris is chuckling because he knows all E21's sold in the US were fuel injected. They were also injected in Europe except for the 320-6 as best as I know. Possible there were some versions I don't know about, but that's the facts on US E21's. All US E21's were 4 bangers. The 78-79 had larger displacement but a 4 speed manual. I don't remember what year BMW went to smaller displacement and the 5 spd. Google is your friend.

Did you get the early run of E30s on carbs in the US? Or did it go straight to the FI models?

[wkohler]

Every E21 and E30 we got here in the US was fuel injected.

[snakebrain]

Every E21 and E30 we got here in the US was fuel injected.

Dodged a bullet there!

[m-racer]

Cris is chuckling because he knows all E21's sold in the US were fuel injected. They were also injected in Europe except for the 320-6 as best as I know. Possible there were some versions I don't know about, but that's the facts on US E21's. All US E21's were 4 bangers. The 78-79 had larger displacement but a 4 speed manual. I don't remember what year BMW went to smaller displacement and the 5 spd. Google is your friend.

Did you get the early run of E30s on carbs in the US? Or did it go straight to the FI models?

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

[stuartinmn]

That's what the 'i' stands for.

[caleb 87 535is]

All US models had Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection, A.K.A. "CIS". It doesnt pulse the injectors, it just sprays all of them constantly. The 2.0L I-4 was from 77-79 and mated to a four speed gearbox. The 80-83 models came with a 1.8L some mated to a 4 and some mated to a 5 speed gearbox.

Then theres the "IS" versions which came with a lot of different options that set them apart from the normal ones.

If you are serious about getting one here is a link to the K-jet manual. Get to know it, it is your best friend besides the bf.c subforum.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch ... l-?page=40

I will be bringing one home in 2-3 weeks granted the the people that deal with the income tax returns are feeling speedy and we dont get audited. -_- ill start reading and ill pick up a Bentley manual for it also. it runs smooth purrs like a kitten and a fresh engine in it. I have no clue if its the 1.8 or the 2.0 though. Since the distributor cap went out on my E28 this was a last minute decision since things are starting to fail rapidly on the E28.
This is all very helpful information. After I find an E28 in better condition I will retire my current one to a parts car and the E21 for a track car or something. The U.S models were sold with the forward opening hoods right /__ ? or were they only sold as the rear opening hoods __\ ?

[jay]

83 will have the 1.8. Congrats and post some pics!

[Mike W.]

All 80+ cars had 5 speeds if a manual. Slow by todays standards but peppy at the time. Not fast at all. Bog slow if an auto. The 1.8, 80+ cars were far better cars than the earlier 2.0s due to much better smog controls. About as fast, but more reliable, longer lasting and much better mileage. I've had several but I'm not a fan. They were ok at the time but haven't aged well.

[caleb 87 535is]

83 will have the 1.8. Congrats and post some pics!

Thanks! I will do so once I bring her home, I'll post a video of her running too. Its the 5 speed and I'm really happy about that. I was able to get her for 1800 instead of the 2300 he originally wanted. I think its a good deal.

[CSBM5]

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

Until I got a hold of one.



As far as thoughts, I'd leave you with my main thought on the E21: RUST. Beware...

[Mr.3-5-7]

Its a 1.8 if it has the weird "crablike" intake manifold. Its a 2.0 if it has the "log" type manifold.

And if you have any goofy electrical issues you cant figure out, its the hazard switch.

[caleb 87 535is]

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

Until I got a hold of one.



As far as thoughts, I'd leave you with my main thought on the E21: RUST. Beware...

it's cimportant rust free, I wAs relieved too here that.

[m-racer]

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

Until I got a hold of one.



As far as thoughts, I'd leave you with my main thought on the E21: RUST. Beware...

Why would you do that. Twin 40's don't buy add'l power. It's1970's technology.

[CSBM5]

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

Until I got a hold of one.



As far as thoughts, I'd leave you with my main thought on the E21: RUST. Beware...

Why would you do that. Twin 40's don't buy add'l power. It's1970's technology.

The picture was from 1987, and it was a Korman Stage2+ engine with twin 45s, and I can most assuredly say that they added major power along with the pistons, Schrick cam, headers, porting, etc. The stock K-jet could never flow the air required to put out about 50% more power than stock. You do know of course that mechanical K-jet is 1970s tech too, right?

[mtnman533]

ill pick up a Bentley manual for it also.

No Bentley for the e21 last time I checked, Haynes only. I owned one for a year or so, an IS, auto-xed it quite a lot. Great fun little cars, the 4 banger loves being revved!

Have fun with it, M20 swap is the best thing you can do to those cars.

[m-racer]

No 3 series car sold in the US ever had carbs.

Until I got a hold of one.



As far as thoughts, I'd leave you with my main thought on the E21: RUST. Beware...

Why would you do that. Twin 40's don't buy add'l power. It's1970's technology.

The picture was from 1987, and it was a Korman Stage2+ engine with twin 45s, and I can most assuredly say that they added major power along with the pistons, Schrick cam, headers, porting, etc. The stock K-jet could never flow the air required to put out about 50% more power than stock. You do know of course that mechanical K-jet is 1970s tech too, right?

Korman built several engines for my 02's including both stg3 engines that had 45's and a 305 cam and tii injection with a 300 degree cam. The injection system had to be bench flowed to match the cam, but the injected version still made more power than the carb'ed version. By the way, a Korman stg 2 build has a 292 cam and twin 40's. Twin 45's require a 300 degree cam and are stg 3. Yes, I aware of the history of FI and the reasons carbs were eliminated for all BMW's sold in the US after 1976. Twin webers sound great though if you can stand the raw gas smell. Do you still have that car?

[CSBM5]

Hence the reason Ray used to call this a Stage2+ when using the 45s with a Shrick 304. The tii injection is a much different animal than K-jet, and there was nobody in the 1980s able to make K-jet work with a 150hp M10. Ray never built K-jet highly modified engines as he always removed it in favor of the Webers -- there is a big reason for that -- K-jet could not be made to deliver the power needed (air and fuel for a 50% increase in power).

[Mike W.]

I don't know, euro 320i's were rated at 125HP. I've got to think higher compression and cam along with a little tweaking could get another 25HP over bone stock.

[m-racer]

Hence the reason Ray used to call this a Stage2+ when using the 45s with a Shrick 304. The tii injection is a much different animal than K-jet, and there was nobody in the 1980s able to make K-jet work with a 150hp M10. Ray never built K-jet highly modified engines as he always removed it in favor of the Webers -- there is a big reason for that -- K-jet could not be made to deliver the power needed (air and fuel for a 50% increase in power).

I believe I have the dyno test for 165hp on an injected M10 somewhere. Actually, it wasn't the injection that limited the power, it was the head that was the limiting factor. Mine had the Alpina Modified head and an Alpina 300 grind cam and Alpina pistons, and FI. Do you still have the car?

[CSBM5]

I don't know, euro 320i's were rated at 125HP. I've got to think higher compression and cam along with a little tweaking could get another 25HP over bone stock.

25+ years ago, I didn't argue with Ray. The engine was super sweet, ran like a banshee, and at least at that time there was nobody in the US offering a K-jet based M10 engine that put out 150+HP (with of course reliability added in here too as Ray warranted the engine).

[CSBM5]

Hence the reason Ray used to call this a Stage2+ when using the 45s with a Shrick 304. The tii injection is a much different animal than K-jet, and there was nobody in the 1980s able to make K-jet work with a 150hp M10. Ray never built K-jet highly modified engines as he always removed it in favor of the Webers -- there is a big reason for that -- K-jet could not be made to deliver the power needed (air and fuel for a 50% increase in power).

I believe I have the dyno test for 165hp on an injected M10 somewhere. Actually, it wasn't the injection that limited the power, it was the head that was the limiting factor. Mine had the Alpina Modified head and an Alpina 300 grind cam and Alpina pistons, and FI. Do you still have the car?

Nope, sold the car in 1989...due to rust issues. I was more into M30s at the time as in 1981 I had Ray build me a really sweet triple Weber M30 for my 72 Bavaria. I never really cared for the M10s...that E21 was just my daily driver at the time so the Bav could rest in the garage when it wasn't on the track.

[m-racer]

Alpina actually offered a carb'ed A2 system on an E21 very eary in production. They replaced it with A4 injection and were consistantly getting in the 160 plus range out of an M10 (A4 has ITB's). I believe Hardy and Beck and Miller and Norburn were selling those engine kits back in the day. Of course the next step was to use an M20 in the E21. Ray was the hot lick back in the day and the engines I had his shop build ran forever. Unfortunately, I had much different experiences there in the 90's.