Turbo Cowtipping (my F.I. build) 2/2014 addendum

[Nebraska_e28]

Most of the wires are all finished up under the hood & I need to figure out why my temp gauge isn't working thought it's connected. Also need to go verify I have the correct wire for dash rpm gauge. I'm just about done routing the lines for the pump/HE & reservoir. I've been taking my time to figure how I want this stuff mounted initially so it doesn't look like a hack job. Of course I'll probably go back & revamp it all later. Still need to figure out a way to mount the water pump so it isn't just hanging around loose.

I've noticed with the stock fan/clutch setup, engine temps around around 185/190ish. A bit higher than what I'd like to see.

[JesterMX6]

Most of the wires are all finished up under the hood & I need to figure out why my temp gauge isn't working thought it's connected. Also need to go verify I have the correct wire for dash rpm gauge. I'm just about done routing the lines for the pump/HE & reservoir. I've been taking my time to figure how I want this stuff mounted initially so it doesn't look like a hack job. Of course I'll probably go back & revamp it all later. Still need to figure out a way to mount the water pump so it isn't just hanging around loose.

I've noticed with the stock fan/clutch setup, engine temps around around 185/190ish. A bit higher than what I'd like to see.

make sure you have a shroud properly installed. my shroud wasn't mounted correctly and my temps were sitting a bit higher. i pulled the shroud and reseated it so it'd actually seal around the radiator and my temps dropped down quite a bit.

[Nebraska_e28]

My car seems to be misfiring. Since being turboed, It's only been driven maybe 4 blocks & spent maybe 12 hours total idling in my driveway. I wasn't sure if I should post this up over in the TT forum or here in FI since I'm running Megasquirt. Guess I'll toss it out for anyone that might have some insight on something I'm missing, or a wild hair of what else I might try.

The car:
Stock 533i motor w/turbo, MS2 extra, e34 harness, & wasted spark

Situation:
I let it sit for a few days without starting it & now "out of the blue" it seems to have a missfire on one of the cylinders (or all of them?). After things warm up, it's still present but not quite as obvious until the engine is revved up. Then it sounds like Subaru or something.

Troubleshooting done: (in no particular order)
The wbo2 had come loose & it was running very rich so I pulled all plugs to put some fire to them and wire brush/clean.
Bought 1 new plug & swapped it to each cyl individually to trace the problem.
Checked coil to plug firing order.
Checked resistance on all 'new' plug wires.
Swapped in new plugs for the ones that have maybe 12 hours run time.
Checked for spark on every wire. Running MSD coils & it was huge!
Checked timing in MS.
Verified all injector connectors were firing w/noid light. (brand new injectors)
Tried separating the sparkplug wires (that I ziptied together) thinking the may have been some crossfire going on.
Created a new map from scratch in Tunerstudio.

I have yet to do a compression test to see if my worst fear is true, in which case I'll be pulling the head for a rebuild.
Any other ideas of what I might check?

[Nebraska_e28]

Well... Hoping to locate a cylinder that wasn't firing, I got an IR temp gun & hit each spot on the exhaust manifold port. Temps looked to be fairly consistent. Around 260 - 300F Is that about normal for a ceramic coated manifold? Also started in on a compression test & it was too much of a pain the arse to get the blasted thing threaded in the first hole. Gave up for fear of stripping threads. Call it mechanics intuition, but it was already a long day & I had a bad feeling about proceeding.

Crazy thing is it has too smooth of a rough idle (can i say that?) to be a total misfire. Tonight I plan on testing fuel pressure in the rail & then on to swapping in a "known good" set of injectors. From the advice of a board member, maybe my pipes are gummed up. More to come...

[Mr Project]

So, it runs badly, but consistently badly, with no evidence of one particular cylinder misfiring. Obviously the compression test is important, but if that goes OK, it sounds to me like you have fire and fuel, so you must have one of them at the wrong time....

How is the ignition triggered on this setup? Could something have slipped, wire broken/shorted, poor signal insulation on the trigger signal, etc?

[Nebraska_e28]

Well tonight I pulled the injectors & swapped in a thought-to-be-good set. Afterwards I adjusted MS for the change in injectors. Car ran exactly the same. This weekend I'll get the darned compression test done & expect some data pointing to the head being fubarred!

How is the ignition triggered on this setup?

The ignition is triggered off an e34 crank wheel & sensor.

[Nebraska_e28]

small update:

Skipped the comp test since Mike came by Friday. He touched my car in some odd manner & it now runs fine.
Problem must've been an electrical connection. Will get around to a pull test eventually... It was running fine with the old injectors I swapped in. Put the new 42lbs ones back in & still all good. This must prove the issue couldn't have been the head.

Figured out why MS wasn't reading afr right, I had it connected to the narrow band spare output side of the lc-1. Now I have MS & the afr gauge wired together into the same wideband output side of the sensor. Is this right? MS now reads fine, but there is about a 1 point difference between it & the gauge.

I'm reading on how to adjust the tune & it still seems a tad mystical. Do I just have someone drive the car while I adjust the table to 14.7:1 for a given rpm & load?

Headed to work now...

[Jared S]

I have my lc-1 wired to my gauge with one output and MS is getting the second output. I don't think you should be feeding both the gauge and MS from the same output, but maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't matter. I did have a problem where my innovate gauge and MS were almost 1 point different. The problem was the way I was grounding the lc-1. Originally I had all the lc-1 grounds together on one lug. I split them between 2 lugs and then my readings were the same between the innovate gauge and MS.

[Nebraska_e28]

I have my lc-1 wired to my gauge with one output and MS is getting the second output. I don't think you should be feeding both the gauge and MS from the same output, but maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't matter. I did have a problem where my innovate gauge and MS were almost 1 point different. The problem was the way I was grounding the lc-1. Originally I had all the lc-1 grounds together on one lug. I split them between 2 lugs and then my readings were the same between the innovate gauge and MS.

Well I was able to finally get MS to coincide with the gauge. I had to set TS to "wbo2 not listed" & then programmed in the hi/low voltage values into TS that the lc1 manual stated. Both are spot on now.

I thought the 2nd output on the Lc1 was just a narrowband out? Is this configurable?

[M. Holtmeier]

I thought the 2nd output on the Lc1 was just a narrowband out? Is this configurable?

Both outputs can be changed. Give me a buzz if you need a second pair of eyes/ears to get that thing tuned in.

[slammin_e28]

Sub'd 4 pics and future ref!

[Nebraska_e28]

I thought the 2nd output on the Lc1 was just a narrowband out? Is this configurable?

Both outputs can be changed. Give me a buzz if you need a second pair of eyes/ears to get that thing tuned in.

Incoming.

[Nebraska_e28]

10/5/10 update

I'll get a pic up sooner or later of things being cleaned up slightly. I fully understand now how making 1 part of your car look good brings out how bad the rest looks.

I'm running bille sports w/spax springs & was on the 2nd to lowest perch. I switched tires from Potenza re050a 255/40/17 to a Sumitomo htz III. I think the htz's have a slight wider sectional-cross-width & there was just a hair of rubbing on the driver side (typical). So I raised the rear up a bit from the 2nd to lowest perch to the 4th. This gained about 1" of height & stiffened the rear up even more. No rubbing now, though I think the car may have rode just a tad bit better having a flat stance. Still early to tell.

I've been playing with the tuning side of things trying to "self-teach" myself. There's a heck of learning curve, but I'll get there. Yesterday took the car out for it's first drive (longer than 2 blocks). Went about 15 miles trying to feel things out. Very VERY light on the boost here & there since I'm not ready to blow things up yet. It made the brief flight. Nothing fell off, broke, burned up or croaked. Not too bad eh? Granted I was slightly under speed limit feeling the car out.

Couple of things learned.

I now know what slight detonation sounds like under boost & and have no intentions of making repeat performances.

Though a blowoff valve would be a cool novelty, I'm digging the swoosh of the bypass valve. I can see where this would come in quite handy in avoiding some "revenue generators" with red/blue lights.

After being on pins & needles just making a 20 mile round trip drive, I gotta wonder how I was gonna have kahunas big enough to drive to the last 5erFest.

There's a new need for me to re-learn how to drive an automatic. I have a new found anxiety of punching it & it down shifting from 4 to (something to low) hence immediately blowing shit up. Guess I'll have to play with the kickdown a bit.

There's a direct mathematical proportion increasing RPM near 2500ish to Holy $hit levels.

A fast car can make you more mindful of the speed limit, more or less.

[Nebraska_e28]

[T_C_D]

Awesome! Automatic, loose converter and boost is really awesome!

[skip535i]

Where did you get that wicked-awesome gold valve cover??

[cvillebimmer]

Wow! That looks fantastic. At first glance I thought the color of your valve color was "cosmoline."

[M. Holtmeier]

Man that is looking good. I'm jealous of your chrome strut bar.

When are turning that thing up?

[JesterMX6]

what is the old license plate shielding under there?

[Nebraska_e28]

Awesome! Automatic, loose converter and boost is really awesome!

Thanks!

Where did you get that wicked-awesome gold valve cover??

And you probably thought it'd never get used.
Came in handy after all & looks pretty darned good, or at least I hope I do it justice.

Wow! That looks fantastic. At first glance I thought the color of your valve color was "cosmoline."

Camera phone pics suck.

Man that is looking good. I'm jealous of your chrome strut bar.

When are turning that thing up?

I'd love to turn the boost up but there's a few things I'll probably address first to maximize efficiency at 7.5psi.

1. I need to get my radiator shroud/shelf installed. Hopefully this will aid in airflow through the HE & radiator.

2. IIRC we were seeing IAT of 140 degrees under sustained boost. That sounds like somewhat of the norm, but I'd like to see a sizeable drop. Is sub 100 too much to ask?

3. The intake charge pipe needs to be sealed off from sucking any air from the engine bay.

4. I'm still clueless at this whole map thing & will be bugging ya soon for more insight.

5. Electric fan is a must! Now that I have the engine temp gauge mounted I see the temp sits around 195 average. My goal here is to hover in the 185 neighborhood.

I have a few other tricks up my sleeve & probably a few I'm forgetting but am hoping all of this will gain some additional HP. Trying to get the most bang for my buck!

what is the old license plate shielding under there?

That's called the "I need 1 more piece to get this damn thing on the road" shield!

[George]

I'm not running a shroud and I routinely see about 175F.

Your IATs are going to be dependent on a ambient. I generally see about 15-20F above ambient. Although, like Mike, I've upgraded just about all of the system.

Have you made sure the intercooler system is properly bleed?


I recommend these two books for the basics on MAP based tuning (although they cover a lot of the same material)

http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Tuning- ... y_b_text_b

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management ... y_b_text_c

[Nebraska_e28]

I'm not running a shroud and I routinely see about 175F.

Your IATs are going to be dependent on a ambient. I generally see about 15-20F above ambient. Although, like Mike, I've upgraded just about all of the system.

Have you made sure the intercooler system is properly bleed?

What are you running for a HE or HE's? 15-20F above definitely seems acceptable in my book! When we saw it hit 140, I think ambient was around 75ish outside at night. I'll let Mike chime in if he thinks different.

After the install I ran the intercooler pump & checked the water level in the IC, then topped off. Since then I've checked the level periodically. I suppose I should pop the screw from the tank & do a visual there also. Is there some additional process I've skipped?

[George]

I'm not running a shroud and I routinely see about 175F.

Your IATs are going to be dependent on a ambient. I generally see about 15-20F above ambient. Although, like Mike, I've upgraded just about all of the system.

Have you made sure the intercooler system is properly bleed?

What are you running for a HE or HE's? 15-20F above definitely seems acceptable in my book! When we saw it hit 140, I think ambient was around 75ish outside at night. I'll let Mike chime in if he thinks different.

After the install I ran the intercooler pump & checked the water level in the IC, then topped off. Since then I've checked the level periodically. I suppose I should pop the screw from the tank & do a visual there also. Is there some additional process I've skipped?

I'm currently using the Bosch cobra pump.

Part#: 0392022002


I'm using a custom set-up on the heat exchanger. modified an all aluminum Honda Civic radiator. Lots of surface area and plenty of capacity. I cut off the existing end tanks and made my own. I then welded on -10JIC Male fittings for the lines.


I have removed all of the A/C components though.

Make sure you you use the bleeder screw on the reservoir to get an air pockets out of the system. 65F above ambient is too high for a low boost system. I don't think you are getting full circulation of the water.

[Nebraska_e28]

I did check the system & it didn't need to be bled, was still full. Guess it's e-fan time to tame things a bit. By the way if I didnt mention, I'm running a new t-stat, newer radiator & water pump (3 yrs/old).

Today I tipped over 1000 boosted miles & everything is still running great. Not to forget a tune that Mike was able to put together in maybe 2 hours or less! No broken parts or major leaks. All this on a motor that's probably in the neighborhood of 230k+. Hopefully that will all change over the winter but for now I'm having fun & being lazy about doing any upgrades.

Next major step now is to graduate from my FI embryo state in tuning. Will be doing a cozying up over the next week or so with my latest investments...

[JesterMX6]

yep. i have that first book. great read.

[Nebraska_e28]

11/8 update

Over the weekend I finally got around to installing the electric fans I purchased sometime last year. The most tedious part of this mod was taking double-checking all measurements to ensure the mounting holes aligned properly. The 2nd thing to note was remembering which output I configured on MS to control the fans. I went back to the notes I took during the MS build but they didn't help much since I must've changed my mind mid-build & went with a different output. No biggie though I rolled the dice & tested with a multimeter till I figured it out. So far I can say overall the car does run cooler than it did with the mechanical fan. They are currently setup to kick on at 197 & cool until 192 is reached. It's working well for the moment, but I'm sure I'll need to tweak things just a tad more.

Rescued from local Autozone trash


Stuffed into my recovery vehicle


Displaying proper use of PPE, though to be 100% correct my supporting hand should've been behind cutting path.


Intial design/mock-up


Final design after debating several cooling variables including laziness to finish the initial design.


before vs. after

[tsmall07]

Looks like a solid install. Can you remove the fans without removing the radiator?

[M. Holtmeier]

"Recovery Vehicle."

[Mr Project]

Fans look good! Details on what they are/where you obtained them?

I have a 16" electric on the E23 and wish I had gone with two smaller units for space considerations...it is TIGHT.

[Nebraska_e28]

Looks like a solid install. Can you remove the fans without removing the radiator?

Honestly I'm not sure, but I probably can remove the whole radiator in less time. It is quite a bit easier to get at that "pain-in-the-azz" bottom radiator hose clamp.

Fans look good! Details on what they are/where you obtained them?

I have a 16" electric on the E23 and wish I had gone with two smaller units for space considerations...it is TIGHT.

I spent the last 2 years studying
Mike's notes before I pulled the trigger. The fan's can be had on Summit racing, or do like me, print out their price, take to local auto store & have them price match, then use $ saved for bottle of Jack Daniels

It sucks that I wasn't able to make street night at the 1/8" mile strip last friday. From what I understand they are shut down for the year, so no breaky break for me till 2011.