Hello everyone. I just purchsed my 1988 M5 about a month ago and have heard that one of the first things I should do is the Fahey Crank Hub. I have asked many people but have not received any help. What does this install entail? Any info would be great especially detailed directions. Also, what are feelings on chip upgrades? Also tire experiences would be great.
Thanks,
Mike
M5 upgrades
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Mark 88/M5 Houston
- Posts: 8548
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Far North Houston
Fahley Crank hub -- remove old hub, install new hub. Sticking point 320lb ft torque on the bolt. I'm going to install one when I do the timing chain and guides this winter.
No personal experience with chips as of yet.
I put on a set of Pirelli PzeroNero 225/50/16's on befor 5erFest and have absolutely no complaints. Great stick both wet and dry and quiet.
No personal experience with chips as of yet.
I put on a set of Pirelli PzeroNero 225/50/16's on befor 5erFest and have absolutely no complaints. Great stick both wet and dry and quiet.
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e28blackbeauty
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
I had heard that the chip does wonders for the US spec M5's but Ive yet to get one. Mark D'sylva ( http://www.dsylva-tech.ca/ ) and Jim Conforti (www.turnermotorsports.com ) both make chips for the e28 but im not sure if Mark D is selling one for the S38 yet.
As for tires, I have 17'' Rondell 58's on 225/45/17 Cooper Continential Sport SLE's and they handle well, but it gets a little squirly in the rain i find.
-Matt
As for tires, I have 17'' Rondell 58's on 225/45/17 Cooper Continential Sport SLE's and they handle well, but it gets a little squirly in the rain i find.
-Matt
Mkarkos,
I did the hub install myself a few years ago, and did an extensive write up on it on the Roadfly E28M5 board.
I had the "benefit" of not having to take my old one off - the nut spun off itself (thus the replacement).
Essentially to do the job:
1) remove the fan and radiator
2) get a 4ft long torque wrench, 1" drive. I used a 100-600ft/lb unit. You need 325ft/lbs.
3) Get Wheel Chocks
4) Ask Brett Anderson (http://koalamotorsport.com) about the S38 flywheel holder tool. He rents them. I didn't do this but i suspect you might need it to break the original nut loose.
5) get the right socket for the nut. i dont remember if its 32mm or 36mm. I used an inch-equivalent size (nobody has a 1" drive 36mm socket on short notice
6) you'll need at least a 4ft 1" drive breaker bar.
Get a new crank nut and woodruff key. Not sure you'll need the key, but the nut is single-use.
When you put it all back together, Loctite makes something called "sleeve retainer" I used that between the inside of the hub and the protruding crank snout. I used red-threadlocker on the nut itself.
I did the hub install myself a few years ago, and did an extensive write up on it on the Roadfly E28M5 board.
I had the "benefit" of not having to take my old one off - the nut spun off itself (thus the replacement).
Essentially to do the job:
1) remove the fan and radiator
2) get a 4ft long torque wrench, 1" drive. I used a 100-600ft/lb unit. You need 325ft/lbs.
3) Get Wheel Chocks
4) Ask Brett Anderson (http://koalamotorsport.com) about the S38 flywheel holder tool. He rents them. I didn't do this but i suspect you might need it to break the original nut loose.
5) get the right socket for the nut. i dont remember if its 32mm or 36mm. I used an inch-equivalent size (nobody has a 1" drive 36mm socket on short notice
6) you'll need at least a 4ft 1" drive breaker bar.
Get a new crank nut and woodruff key. Not sure you'll need the key, but the nut is single-use.
When you put it all back together, Loctite makes something called "sleeve retainer" I used that between the inside of the hub and the protruding crank snout. I used red-threadlocker on the nut itself.
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Adam W in MN
- Posts: 5052
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Don't waste my motherf***in' time!
- Contact:
The Fahey hub replacement might be a little difficult if your old hub is fused to the crank, as mine was. The machine shop had to remove it from the end of the crank after I broke the lower timing chain cover trying to get it off.
The big-mutha-nut is 36mm btw. I got it off by bracing the engine on the stand against the header of my garage door with a 2x4 (so the stand wouldn't twist and fall over as I was doing this). Then I used a propane torch to heat up the nut, and then with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 3 and a half foot conduit bar used as an extension, with me bouncing on the end of it, the nut finally came loose.
Installation is the reverse of removal.
The big-mutha-nut is 36mm btw. I got it off by bracing the engine on the stand against the header of my garage door with a 2x4 (so the stand wouldn't twist and fall over as I was doing this). Then I used a propane torch to heat up the nut, and then with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 3 and a half foot conduit bar used as an extension, with me bouncing on the end of it, the nut finally came loose.
Installation is the reverse of removal.
If I am wrong please enlighten me.
I replaced my crank hub 2 1/2 years ago with a stock
BMW E28 not M5 crank hub. Mine developed a hairline
crack and sheared the key way or wood ruff, at 140k miles
Crank Hub 95.00 Key Way 0.45, yes .45 cents
no problem since.
But I have been told that the Fahey Crank Hub is the only way to go,
but no explanation into what the differences are and over twice the price.
Maybe its the status factor or rather 'Fahey Factor'
I did the job myself with no prior 'wrenching ability' & felt that it was a simple fix.
I could not have done it without the help of Dave Crawford (Icehaus Dave)
even though he was in Texas and me in California.
Dave has a tool that locks in the crankshaft so you can do the necessary torxing.
The kicker in this story is my very well know mechanic said I needed a new motor.
Yeah right....see yah!!!
The moral of this experience:
Key Way 0.45 cents, go figure
Mechanics trust factor-WTF
Being part of the E28 community-PRICELESS
Good Luck
I replaced my crank hub 2 1/2 years ago with a stock
BMW E28 not M5 crank hub. Mine developed a hairline
crack and sheared the key way or wood ruff, at 140k miles
Crank Hub 95.00 Key Way 0.45, yes .45 cents
no problem since.
But I have been told that the Fahey Crank Hub is the only way to go,
but no explanation into what the differences are and over twice the price.
Maybe its the status factor or rather 'Fahey Factor'
I did the job myself with no prior 'wrenching ability' & felt that it was a simple fix.
I could not have done it without the help of Dave Crawford (Icehaus Dave)
even though he was in Texas and me in California.
Dave has a tool that locks in the crankshaft so you can do the necessary torxing.
The kicker in this story is my very well know mechanic said I needed a new motor.
Yeah right....see yah!!!
The moral of this experience:
Key Way 0.45 cents, go figure
Mechanics trust factor-WTF
Being part of the E28 community-PRICELESS
Good Luck
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Adam W in MN
- Posts: 5052
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Don't waste my motherf***in' time!
- Contact:
[QUOTE="Robbie"]But I have been told that the Fahey Crank Hub is the only way to go,
but no explanation into what the differences are and over twice the price.
Maybe its the status factor or rather 'Fahey Factor'[/QUOTE]
Explanation is on Frank Fahey's web site. It is made of hardened steel 6 times stronger (I think I read six times?) than the stock unit. The stock unit can go barrel-shaped under load at high rpm's since it's torqued on so tight. Then it only makes contact at the inner and outer ends, but not in the middle due to the barrel shape. The result is eventual failure.
I admit it is very pricey it seems for such a simple thing, but who else is making one? Fahey can charge the monopoly price.
but no explanation into what the differences are and over twice the price.
Maybe its the status factor or rather 'Fahey Factor'[/QUOTE]
Explanation is on Frank Fahey's web site. It is made of hardened steel 6 times stronger (I think I read six times?) than the stock unit. The stock unit can go barrel-shaped under load at high rpm's since it's torqued on so tight. Then it only makes contact at the inner and outer ends, but not in the middle due to the barrel shape. The result is eventual failure.
I admit it is very pricey it seems for such a simple thing, but who else is making one? Fahey can charge the monopoly price.
I donno, but here's the story on the S38 motor.
_If_ you have the failure, then YES, the "right" fix is to redo the motor? Why? Because the woodruff key rips apart the keyway in the end of the crank, which is a one peice assembly.. so you need a new crank. If you're doing a new crank, you're doing a bottom end job on the motor. If you're doing the bottom end, why would you spend the time and money but not do the top end as well?
So you see how a woodruff key failure turns into an overhaul.
The Fahey product is meant to be _preventative_. His intructinos specifically say that he cant do anything for you if the key has already failed.
The hub is made of a higher grade steel than the bmw part.
I had mine fail while dynoing the car. I had the dyno shop try to put it back together - new nut and key. That lasted 6 weeks.
Then i did it myself. I tried to rebuild the keyway in the crank with jb-weld, and jb-welded the new key in there. I shaved down all the melted material on the crank snout. I used sleeve retainer on the new fahey hub and thread locker on the crank nut itself. I did the job with the engine still in the car, in my employers parking garage (i lived in an apartment at the time).
That repair has held for a few years now.. and the car has seen 7000rpm quite often.. basically anytime it gets driven
I know i'm on borrowed time. And with this repair, i cant do the timing chain (the hub wont come off for anything, so i cant get the lower timing cover off, so i cant do the chain). But it was either this or sell the car as a roller - i couldn't bankroll an S38 rebuild.
Later versions of the S38 have an integral hub-mounting flange with 4 bolt holes. No woodruff key is involved.
_If_ you have the failure, then YES, the "right" fix is to redo the motor? Why? Because the woodruff key rips apart the keyway in the end of the crank, which is a one peice assembly.. so you need a new crank. If you're doing a new crank, you're doing a bottom end job on the motor. If you're doing the bottom end, why would you spend the time and money but not do the top end as well?
So you see how a woodruff key failure turns into an overhaul.
The Fahey product is meant to be _preventative_. His intructinos specifically say that he cant do anything for you if the key has already failed.
The hub is made of a higher grade steel than the bmw part.
I had mine fail while dynoing the car. I had the dyno shop try to put it back together - new nut and key. That lasted 6 weeks.
Then i did it myself. I tried to rebuild the keyway in the crank with jb-weld, and jb-welded the new key in there. I shaved down all the melted material on the crank snout. I used sleeve retainer on the new fahey hub and thread locker on the crank nut itself. I did the job with the engine still in the car, in my employers parking garage (i lived in an apartment at the time).
That repair has held for a few years now.. and the car has seen 7000rpm quite often.. basically anytime it gets driven
I know i'm on borrowed time. And with this repair, i cant do the timing chain (the hub wont come off for anything, so i cant get the lower timing cover off, so i cant do the chain). But it was either this or sell the car as a roller - i couldn't bankroll an S38 rebuild.
Later versions of the S38 have an integral hub-mounting flange with 4 bolt holes. No woodruff key is involved.
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Kenny Blankenship
- Posts: 4920
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: NNV
I replaced my crank hub 2 1/2 years ago with a stock
BMW E28 not M5 crank hub. Mine developed a hairline
crack and sheared the key way or wood ruff, at 140k miles
Crank Hub 95.00 Key Way 0.45, yes .45 cents
no problem since.
I believe the M30 and S38 use the same crank hub, is that correct? That's part of the issue, there is extra stress on the S38 but the part is not upgraded.
Thanks Everyone. You learn something new everyday. My question about tires still stands,. What are my best bets for a good grippy tire.? What kind of mileage do you get from a set of tires? I had a e36 M3 and never got more than 10K out of a rear set, but I couldn't rotate them and I did do some autocrossing. I replaced my cat today so my next project is some tires then probably the crank hub, then chip. Anyone else have experiences w/ chips(not potato either)?
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Kenny Blankenship
- Posts: 4920
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: NNV
My personal favorite is the Toyo T1-S. I felt it was a balanced tire with very good grip and good wear. I had a set last over 30k miles including some track time. They are being replaced by the T1-R but it appears the S is still available. Edge Racing (www. edgeracing.com) has by far the lowest prices on this tire I've seen.