Turbocharging my 535i

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 1:42 PM

I hate to be the newbie but unfortunetly I am to the whole bmw world. I'm more into Vw's and i'm on vwvortex all the time. I purchased an '86 535i not too long ago and the previous owner had plans to turbo it using oe parts. So I figure if it's possible I'll give it a shot. I've seen turbo manifolds that will fit the M30. I'm just seeing what all I'm gonna need and from what cars I can get it from. A compression test was done so I'm confident this motor will hold up.

thanks -john

Post by **Shawn D.** » Jun 21, 2005 2:18 PM

Start by reading the old posts to see what's been done by others and then you can make some informed decisions and ask some educated questions about what you don't understand. There's a great base of knowledge about turbocharging as well as other subjects, but it ain't gonna jump in your lap!

Good luck, and welcome!

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Jun 21, 2005 2:26 PM

My impressinon is that if you want a hassle free bolt-up system, (well, as much as possible with any aftermarket bolt-on) talk to TCD - www.turbochargingdynamics.com

As with any project, your goals and your budget define the details

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 2:26 PM

Yeah I understand, sifting through old posts can be helpful as well as confusing if you've never worked on this type of vehicle. I though my questions were some what educated? I just asked off of what car can I snag a manifold/turbo that will work will my E28...

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 2:28 PM

[QUOTE="Matt"]My impressinon is that if you want a hassle free bolt-up system, (well, as much as possible with any aftermarket bolt-on) talk to TCD - www.turbochargingdynamics.com

As with any project, your goals and your budget define the details

[/QUOTE]

Thanks, yeah I have a feeling that may be out of my budget.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Jun 21, 2005 2:37 PM

Well, BMW has only ever made a handful of factory turbo cars, and only one for the US market - the ultra elusive 524td (turbo diesel). The only turbo gas cars made were the E23 745i, which was ever offically imported into the US, although it is possible to find them, and the 2002 turbo, which, afaik was never imported into the US and as far as your budget is concerned simply does not exist. Never mind that that is a 4 cyl car anyhow

If you cant afford a pre-engineered system, the biggest "gotcha" will be finding a proper turbo manifold. I'd recommend buying just the manifold from TCD and then seeing what you can come up with on your own for turbine, fuel, and other plumbing.

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 3:19 PM

[QUOTE="Matt"]Well, BMW has only ever made a handful of factory turbo cars, and only one for the US market - the ultra elusive 524td (turbo diesel). The only turbo gas cars made were the E23 745i, which was ever offically imported into the US, although it is possible to find them, and the 2002 turbo, which, afaik was never imported into the US and as far as your budget is concerned simply does not exist. Never mind that that is a 4 cyl car anyhow

If you cant afford a pre-engineered system, the biggest "gotcha" will be finding a proper turbo manifold. I'd recommend buying just the manifold from TCD and then seeing what you can come up with on your own for turbine, fuel, and other plumbing.[/QUOTE]

Awesome thats exactly what I was looking for. I knew BMW made 745 with a turbo, just didn't know how hard they were to find. So is TCD the only company making mainfolds for E28's? Thanks a bunch

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Jun 21, 2005 3:57 PM

as far as i know, TCD is the only company _currently_ making manifolds for the E28s. lots of people have done one-off custom manifolds.

In the past a few different companies made turbo manifolds, but never with any high volume. you occasionally find some of them.

If i ever do a turbo M30, i'll get the manifold from TCD. I suspect it will be the least hassle of any approach, not to mention you'd be supporting a great MyE28.com member and someone that actually invests time and money into the E28, which is all but forgotten by just about everybody.

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 4:50 PM

Well I found someone in the classifieds selling a turbo manifold from a 745i which I believe also has the M30 motor. With a KKK turbo K27 I believe and wastegate. This might be a rather subtle setup but I'm not looking for anything crazy. Will all of this work with my 535i?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Jun 21, 2005 5:05 PM

the 745 technically uses an M106 motor, but the M106 is just the M30 worked over for turbo features.

Yes, the 745i parts ought to just bolt right up, as far as i know.

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 5:14 PM

Great, thanks

Post by **Jeremy** » Jun 21, 2005 6:05 PM

Not exactly. Mounting the manifold to an M30 requires longer exhaust studs, and getting the whole thing to fit requires the use of a different motor mount on the passenger side. After that you need to get an exhaust custom fabbed and work out the engine management details, proper fueling in particular. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator and larger injectors are generally recomended, even at stock boost pressures.

Also, the 745i manifolds are prone to cracking along the expansion joints, especially those with high miles. Most 745i's are pretty aged this point, so finding an uncracked manifold is damn near impossible.

Keep in mind that if you go the 745 route, every used part you get is probably at least 20 years old. It's doable, but it's not as easy as you're probably thinking. The TCD kit will set you back about $4570 including their 3 inch exhaust and comes with just about everything you need to get the turbo installed. Added bonuses include the availability of replacement parts since it uses a T4 flange for the turbo and the manifolds are stil being cast, and Todd is a super guy who'll help you work out any hitches you bump into during installation.

Jeremy

EDIT: I added the stage 1 kit plus exhaust together and did some bad math. Error fixed.

[Edit by Jeremy on [TIME]1119421366[/TIME]]

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 7:04 PM

Yeah I see how getting a pre fabbed kit would be the recommended way to go. But I only paid $600 for this car and I can't see spending that much on a 19 yr old car. For my situation piecing together a junkyard kit if you want to call it that would just be more practical for what I want. I've found a manifold, not cracked. Longer studs for the manifold on one side is not a big deal. Larger injectors is a given and a FPR is nothing big.

Now the different motor mount on the pass. side, why is that? and as for the exhaust to the manifold, I can have an exhaust shop do up a flange to match. Anything else I should look out for before I start buying this stuff? What turbo will match up to the 745i manifold? thanks

Post by **Jeremy** » Jun 21, 2005 7:17 PM

Vento9 wrote:Now the different motor mount on the pass. side, why is that?

It doesn't fit with stock mounts.

Seriously, I think it's a wastegate to fender clearance issue, but I don't know for sure. I'm referring the metal motor mount bracket, not the rubber piece. TCD made a piece for the 745i into e28 conversion at one point, you might want to get in touch with him and see if he still has any.

What turbo will match up to the 745i manifold?

Just the one that came with it, AFAIK. There are some Porsche turbos from the same era that use the same flange I think, but there really isn't much choice.

Anything else I should look out for before I start buying this stuff?

Probably lots, but I'm no real expert. I went with the TCD kit myself. Condition of the turbo should be checked carefully, I know that. Look for side to side play in the turbine shaft. This indicates a bad bearing and will need to be rebuilt before installation.

Good luck.

Jeremy

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 7:24 PM

Ok I'll have to look into the motor mount issue. Yeah I figure the turbo I get would have to be rebuilt anyway. I wish I had the dollar to go with TCD kit, sounds like money well spent. This is my beater / have fun with car. So if theres anyone that has done the 745i to M30 please let me know. I'll take all the info I can get. Thanks again Jeremy

Yellow2 · Post by **Yellow2** » Jun 21, 2005 8:11 PM

All items that I have for sale are uncracked and in good condition. Get a motor mount from TCD and anything else you need from other members on the forums. Let me go out tothe car and see if the longer studs come with the manifold I have. I have a bag of LONG manifold studs.

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 8:16 PM

Great, thanks and shoot me an IM with the price of everything.

russc · Post by **russc** » Jun 21, 2005 9:18 PM

[QUOTE="Vento9"]I hate to be the newbie but unfortunetly I am to the whole bmw world. I'm more into Vw's and i'm on vwvortex all the time. I purchased an '86 535i not too long ago and the previous owner had plans to turbo it using oe parts. So I figure if it's possible I'll give it a shot. I've seen turbo manifolds that will fit the M30. I'm just seeing what all I'm gonna need and from what cars I can get it from. A compression test was done so I'm confident this motor will hold up.

thanks -john[/QUOTE]

Vento, I believe your looking at this project the wrong way. Doing it on the cheap is just foolhardy. You get what you pay for. The parts you will bolt on will double the output of the engine(at least the capacity is there, whether you useit or not is up to you). If you get used parts on the cheap pcs meal and it doesn't work, Mmmm. Plus, you'll have to buy some of this stuff, FMU, $250, WG$100, custom intake piping($) ect etc. Your looking at $1500+ for parts easy. Plus, look at what 360hp stuff cost out there in the world, Mecedes Benz, Oh my, BMW, mega $, American Iron, high dollar, import, big dollar. Spending for the TCD is not out of whack for 360hp. Just cause the car is worth $700, dosen't mean you can double it's output for $700, sorry..... You'll never get your investment back ever, do putting emphasis on the cheapness of the build up is more hassle than its worth. If you can't do this right, you might want to wait untill you can.

RussC

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 9:30 PM

[QUOTE="russc"]Vento, I believe your looking at this project the wrong way. Doing it on the cheap is just foolhardy. You get what you pay for. The parts you will bolt on will double the output of the engine(at least the capacity is there, whether you useit or not is up to you). If you get used parts on the cheap pcs meal and it doesn't work, Mmmm. Plus, you'll have to buy some of this stuff, FMU, $250, WG$100, custom intake piping($) ect etc. Your looking at $1500+ for parts easy. Plus, look at what 360hp stuff cost out there in the world, Mecedes Benz, Oh my, BMW, mega $, American Iron, high dollar, import, big dollar. Spending for the TCD is not out of whack for 360hp. Just cause the car is worth $700, dosen't mean you can double it's output for $700, sorry..... You'll never get your investment back ever, do putting emphasis on the cheapness of the build up is more hassle than its worth. If you can't do this right, you might want to wait untill you can.

RussC[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure where your coming from with this? When did I say I was doing this cheaply? Because I'm not spending $4200 on a prefabbed kit from a company? I never said a dollar amount that I wanted to stay within so I'm not sure what your talking about. All I inquired about was what stock parts I could use on my car that would work. Obviously someone out there has done this.....

So with that said
%)

[Edit by Vento9 on [TIME]1119403856[/TIME]]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Jun 21, 2005 10:18 PM

I'd be curious as to how cheaply turbocharging a non-turbo could really be? No matter how cheap the parts are, there is labour, and tuning, I think Russ was only really trying to say that no matter what route you take it is going to cost 2-3 k at at the very least,and if something goes wrong, ie detonation, it will cost beaucoup to fix it!
Good luck and keep us posted, somehow cheap and turbo don't ever seem to go together!

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 10:25 PM

Has no one on here put together there own kit? I just kind of find that hard to believe. I've been on vwvortex for about 4 years and see all kind of different setups people put together. The 535i and the 745i shared a similar motor correct? The 535 has an M30 and the 745i has basically an M30 built for the turbo. So why couldn't you take the 745i manifold, turbo, wastegate and acquire the rest needed. I'm not saying its going to be cheap by no means, I just find it hard to believe no one has done this.....

Yellow2 · Post by **Yellow2** » Jun 21, 2005 10:27 PM

no kidding. i should have seen some homemade kits by now. everyone expects bolton, but for cheap you can make most of the parts in your garage.

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 10:31 PM

Yellow, you've swapped most of the 745i components in your 533 right?

Boru · Post by **Boru** » Jun 21, 2005 10:33 PM

I've put together a couple from scratch

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 21, 2005 10:37 PM

[QUOTE="Sweeney"]I've put together a couple from scratch

[/QUOTE]

I'm sure you have.

We'll see, I'm gonna see how this all works out. Keep in mind this is a 19 yr old car. If it was my '98 Vr things would be alittle different. If it doesn't exactly work out, what do I lose. I got the car for next to nothing and it drives excellent.

Kyle in NO · Post by **Kyle in NO** » Jun 21, 2005 11:01 PM

[QUOTE="Jeremy"]The TCD kit will set you back about $4175 including their 3 inch exhaust and comes with just about everything you need to get the turbo installed.[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute, you mean the 3" exhaust comes WITH the kit?!?!?!? I thought it was $700 extra!! If this is true, that would be REALLY cool.

Kyle in NO

Post by **Jeremy** » Jun 22, 2005 2:36 AM

[QUOTE="Vento9"]Has no one on here put together there own kit? I just kind of find that hard to believe. I've been on vwvortex for about 4 years and see all kind of different setups people put together. The 535i and the 745i shared a similar motor correct? The 535 has an M30 and the 745i has basically an M30 built for the turbo. So why couldn't you take the 745i manifold, turbo, wastegate and acquire the rest needed. I'm not saying its going to be cheap by no means, I just find it hard to believe no one has done this.....[/QUOTE]

Well, there's some big differences. One, multiple vendors are currently producing inexpensive turbo manfolds that mate to standard size, readily available turbos for various VW motors. Back when these cars were new, various companies made manifolds and turbo kits for the M30 as well. Dinan, Cartech, Calloway, etc. TCD is currently the only company making new stuff that fits the M30, however. You could certainly buy one of their manifolds and build the rest of your system from there using a standard size turbos and such, but Todd really does do an excellent job of picking the right size and trim turbo for the application it's being used in.

There's nothing particularly wrong with a 745i setup though. You're just limited to what BMW used 25 years ago. Parts can be hard to find if needed. For more information on the 745i setup in general and upgrades that're possible you can visit http://745i.scottiesharpe.com/ Scottie used to come here every now and again, but I haven't seen him in a while.

Jeremy

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 22, 2005 2:57 AM

Greats thanks man, the more info I can get about the 745i swap the better. I've found some more guys in www.bimmerforums.com that have done it so I guess there is hope. It'll be a rough road but a great learning experience.

T_C_D · Post by **T_C_D** » Jun 22, 2005 4:44 PM

Vento,

I have a proposal. For $250 I'll answer 15 emails and give you 2hrs of telephone tech support. I'll answer anything you ask to the best of my ability. Building, tuning, whatever.

Todd

Vento9 · Post by **Vento9** » Jun 22, 2005 4:56 PM

[QUOTE="TCD"]Vento,

I have a proposal. For $250 I'll answer 15 emails and give you 2hrs of telephone tech support. I'll answer anything you ask to the best of my ability. Building, tuning, whatever.

Todd[/QUOTE]

Wow great deal!

Thanks but I think I'll just continue asking questions in hope that someone feeling generous would answer them for me. At least thats what I do for others. I'm slowly figuring out what I need....

-John