http://photos.tobinhosting.com/ericstol ... 24/TCD535/
here we go boys. tell me what you think. and the dyno graph is being scanned at kinko's right now. will be posted tonight or tommorrow
Pics of TCD S2 and Tec3r
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Martin in BellevueWA
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Bellevue,WA
Looks very good.
Can I ask about the map sensor with the tec3?
I'm replacing a burned pro-M maf signal box on my '89 535 with a Split Second PSC1-001 Prog. Sig. Cal. w/Absolute MAP sensor.
[PSC1-001]
This can be set up to modify a maf signal, but I'd like to try to use the built-in MAP sensor with the maf as a tertiary input, along with rpm pickup from the coil.
Here's my question:
Does the TEC3 management use a throttle potentioneter to determine load, or is the MAP signal sufficient for intake load measurement?
Thanks. Sadly, this is on a 535 without turbo plans.
Can I ask about the map sensor with the tec3?
I'm replacing a burned pro-M maf signal box on my '89 535 with a Split Second PSC1-001 Prog. Sig. Cal. w/Absolute MAP sensor.
[PSC1-001]
This can be set up to modify a maf signal, but I'd like to try to use the built-in MAP sensor with the maf as a tertiary input, along with rpm pickup from the coil.
Here's my question:
Does the TEC3 management use a throttle potentioneter to determine load, or is the MAP signal sufficient for intake load measurement?
Thanks. Sadly, this is on a 535 without turbo plans.
Does the TEC3 management use a throttle potentioneter to determine load, or is the MAP signal sufficient for intake load measurement?
It can go either way, or you can blend the signals in fully variable and 2d mappable proportions. It normally uses MAP for load, but there is a function that allows you to replace any portion of the MAP signal with a signal from a TPS sensor, in any proportion, at any RPM. This is designed to help smooth out response when using a hot cam or multiple throttles, when you may not have a steady MAP signal to work with at all RPM.
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Martin in BellevueWA
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Bellevue,WA
Oh, now I can sleep 
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve
DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?
Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]]
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve
DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="Martin in BellevueWA"]Looks very good.
Can I ask about the map sensor with the tec3?
I'm replacing a burned pro-M maf signal box on my '89 535 with a Split Second PSC1-001 Prog. Sig. Cal. w/Absolute MAP sensor.
[PSC1-001]
This can be set up to modify a maf signal, but I'd like to try to use the built-in MAP sensor with the maf as a tertiary input, along with rpm pickup from the coil.
Here's my question:
Does the TEC3 management use a throttle potentioneter to determine load, or is the MAP signal sufficient for intake load measurement?
Thanks. Sadly, this is on a 535 without turbo plans. [/QUOTE]
Hey Martin, take a look at this product if you haven't already purchased that PSC unit.
http://www.maftpro.com/
Does everything the PSC does, and way more. It can also run closed loop to AFR targets and act as a boost controller. Can also use a WBO2 input. Plus all the datalogging you'll ever need, and more. Thats way cool. I've emailed these guys alot, and have been monitoring their website for the release. It's out now. Weve even been talking about getting the AFM flow benched for a AFM delete in thier unit. Even so, if that doesn't happen, you can still map the AFM with the software and then remove the AFM anyway.
Take a look, or anybody else should also. I've been looking at this as it replaces both the SAFC and the AVC-R into one unit, plus closed loop operation.
RussC
Can I ask about the map sensor with the tec3?
I'm replacing a burned pro-M maf signal box on my '89 535 with a Split Second PSC1-001 Prog. Sig. Cal. w/Absolute MAP sensor.
[PSC1-001]
This can be set up to modify a maf signal, but I'd like to try to use the built-in MAP sensor with the maf as a tertiary input, along with rpm pickup from the coil.
Here's my question:
Does the TEC3 management use a throttle potentioneter to determine load, or is the MAP signal sufficient for intake load measurement?
Thanks. Sadly, this is on a 535 without turbo plans. [/QUOTE]
Hey Martin, take a look at this product if you haven't already purchased that PSC unit.
http://www.maftpro.com/
Does everything the PSC does, and way more. It can also run closed loop to AFR targets and act as a boost controller. Can also use a WBO2 input. Plus all the datalogging you'll ever need, and more. Thats way cool. I've emailed these guys alot, and have been monitoring their website for the release. It's out now. Weve even been talking about getting the AFM flow benched for a AFM delete in thier unit. Even so, if that doesn't happen, you can still map the AFM with the software and then remove the AFM anyway.
Take a look, or anybody else should also. I've been looking at this as it replaces both the SAFC and the AVC-R into one unit, plus closed loop operation.
RussC
[QUOTE="russc"]Oh, now I can sleep
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?
Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
The B35 motor makes almost the exact same HP as torque. I have a few other runs where they ran it to 6200rpm. Peak HP was at 6000rpm. I suspect this motor makes at least 350rwhp.
Todd
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve
DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
The B35 motor makes almost the exact same HP as torque. I have a few other runs where they ran it to 6200rpm. Peak HP was at 6000rpm. I suspect this motor makes at least 350rwhp.
Todd
[QUOTE="russc"]Oh, now I can sleep
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?
Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TCD"]The B35 motor makes almost the exact same HP as torque. I have a few other runs where they ran it to 6200rpm. Peak HP was at 6000rpm. I suspect this motor makes at least 350rwhp.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Now that I'm looking again, are you basing that off a NA for FI M30b35? I have 2 NA dynos that look alot like Andrews torque curve, but w/less hp, obviously. These NAs with the ones on Dinans site seem to confirm to me that the NA M30b35 actually makes less hp than torque. I also have your M30b35 NA dyno that is contradictory to these other dynos. Yours does rise to 6k rpm. So, Im not sure what to think other than what I have to see. But you may be right, maybe that bump up in Andrews chart is a flattening of the torque curve, but I'm not totally convinced of that yet.
RussC
Thats is nice. In looking at that, the curves have to cross at 5200rpm. So extending the torque curve with the same slope will give 328lb-ft @ 5200. So thats about 325hp. Umm, that weird thing is the bump at 5000. Not sure if thats from lifting off the throttle or a real turn up in the torque curve
DJ248s seem to have a little bump when lifting off the throttle. Not sure if thats it or not. You said the operator lifted at 5k, right?Its not my guess that the torque curve is taking a new upward slope, or a flattening. Usally once the torque starts down, it stays on that same course. At that psi level, that hp curve will peak out ~230hp(with the pressumption that bump is a throttle lift bump). With some more tuning, you may make som more power @ that psi. Plus, on the road, you'll make more power also, as the IC effeciency goes way up from the dyno runs.
What were the AFRs like? Are you runing it on the rich side for better protection, say @ 11:1?
But man, that car feels good, I'll bet. Especially at that 3600rpm torque surge, thats an "oh my" ~0
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126109964[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TCD"]The B35 motor makes almost the exact same HP as torque. I have a few other runs where they ran it to 6200rpm. Peak HP was at 6000rpm. I suspect this motor makes at least 350rwhp.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Now that I'm looking again, are you basing that off a NA for FI M30b35? I have 2 NA dynos that look alot like Andrews torque curve, but w/less hp, obviously. These NAs with the ones on Dinans site seem to confirm to me that the NA M30b35 actually makes less hp than torque. I also have your M30b35 NA dyno that is contradictory to these other dynos. Yours does rise to 6k rpm. So, Im not sure what to think other than what I have to see. But you may be right, maybe that bump up in Andrews chart is a flattening of the torque curve, but I'm not totally convinced of that yet.
RussC
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Guest
[QUOTE="russc"]Hey Martin, take a look at this product if you haven't already purchased that PSC unit.
http://www.maftpro.com/
Does everything the PSC does, and way more. It can also run closed loop to AFR targets and act as a boost controller. Can also use a WBO2 input. Plus all the datalogging you'll ever need, and more. Thats way cool. I've emailed these guys alot, and have been monitoring their website for the release. It's out now. Weve even been talking about getting the AFM flow benched for a AFM delete in thier unit. Even so, if that doesn't happen, you can still map the AFM with the software and then remove the AFM anyway.
Take a look, or anybody else should also. I've been looking at this as it replaces both the SAFC and the AVC-R into one unit, plus closed loop operation.
RussC[/QUOTE]
Russ,
Thanks for posting the info about this product. It looks like the perfect solution for those of us with Euro ECUs that need some sort of Lambda control for a catalytic convertor.
Rich
[Edit by Rich Euro M5 on [TIME]1126120080[/TIME]]
http://www.maftpro.com/
Does everything the PSC does, and way more. It can also run closed loop to AFR targets and act as a boost controller. Can also use a WBO2 input. Plus all the datalogging you'll ever need, and more. Thats way cool. I've emailed these guys alot, and have been monitoring their website for the release. It's out now. Weve even been talking about getting the AFM flow benched for a AFM delete in thier unit. Even so, if that doesn't happen, you can still map the AFM with the software and then remove the AFM anyway.
Take a look, or anybody else should also. I've been looking at this as it replaces both the SAFC and the AVC-R into one unit, plus closed loop operation.
RussC[/QUOTE]
Russ,
Thanks for posting the info about this product. It looks like the perfect solution for those of us with Euro ECUs that need some sort of Lambda control for a catalytic convertor.
Rich
[Edit by Rich Euro M5 on [TIME]1126120080[/TIME]]
well i was going to post the dyno in it's own thread but o well. Anyway, the dyno operator did lift at 5k. but i have been revving the thing to 6200-6400 under full boost and it has held strong. we'll see what we can do with a mls gasket and more boost later on. all i can say is that this car is just so much fun to drive now. and yes that torque surge at 3600 is like a god damn roller coaster. it just thrusts you back into the seat. the car will be at bavarian fest on september 17 for enquiring minds who would like to see it.
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bahnstormer
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
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Martin in BellevueWA
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: Bellevue,WA
[QUOTE="Martin in BellevueWA"]In Finland, they assume 31% drivetrain loss to come up with 224hp?
I'd prefer a dyno graph showing torque & afr, at the wheels.[/QUOTE]
Where do you get 31%? 171rwhp/224crank hp = .763 which correlates to a 23.7% drivetrain loss correction. 25% is probably more correct for an automatic than a manual, but it's not completely absurd.
Jeremy
I'd prefer a dyno graph showing torque & afr, at the wheels.[/QUOTE]
Where do you get 31%? 171rwhp/224crank hp = .763 which correlates to a 23.7% drivetrain loss correction. 25% is probably more correct for an automatic than a manual, but it's not completely absurd.
Jeremy
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bahnstormer
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM