instaling tec3, trigger wheel ?
The TEC 3r and all Electromotive systems use a 58 tooth wheel driven by the crankshaft (60-2 tooth style). The easiest way to go is to use the stock wheel from an M30B35 engine. It is built into the crank pulley that simply bolts onto the crank hub on the front of the engine. They make a number of different sized universal wheels that require some custom work to mount, the stock B35 wheel is approx. 10" (254mm).
[Edit by DMNaskale on [TIME]1126650820[/TIME]]
[Edit by DMNaskale on [TIME]1126651059[/TIME]]
[Edit by DMNaskale on [TIME]1126650820[/TIME]]
[Edit by DMNaskale on [TIME]1126651059[/TIME]]
Can't say for sure, I have only used Electromotive sensors, although it would not suprise me if it could be used. But I prefer to use a new one that I know for sure will work, that is the most critical input in the whole system, and the Electromotive one is less expensive than the stock one. Not as simple to mount, however.
[QUOTE="DMNaskale"]The easiest way to go is to use the stock wheel from an M30B35 engine. It is built into the crank pulley that simply bolts onto the crank hub on the front of the engine.[/QUOTE]
The M30B35 trigger wheel is not integral to the pulley -- it's a separate piece, at least on the M30B35 I have out of an E24.
The M30B35 trigger wheel is not integral to the pulley -- it's a separate piece, at least on the M30B35 I have out of an E24.
The M30B35 (60-2) wheel will work perfectly. I hate to say is but Powerplant has a billet alum. bracket that will bolt right to the engine and the TEC3 sensor will mount.
Here is a picture of the mount -
And a picture with the wheel installed -
BTW - you can use a TPS sensor from a E34 Auto car. It has a varitable reading for the throttle position and it bolts easily to the TB.
Here is a picture of the mount -
And a picture with the wheel installed -
BTW - you can use a TPS sensor from a E34 Auto car. It has a varitable reading for the throttle position and it bolts easily to the TB.
What do you do about the cam sync signal?Duke M535Ti wrote:The M30B35 (60-2) wheel will work perfectly. I hate to say is but Powerplant has a billet alum. bracket that will bolt right to the engine and the TEC3 sensor will mount.
Do you have part numbers for the TPS sensor and Wheel?
BTW - you can use a TPS sensor from a E34 Auto car. It has a varitable reading for the throttle position and it bolts easily to the TB.
[Edit by Grebnut on [TIME]1126723068[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="gol10dr1"]i used all my original sensors, with the exception of an added throttle position sensor.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but you started with an M30B35, so that's a little different
Why doesn't the TPS from a sport auto e28 work? Is it not progressive like that e34 auto TPS is?
Jeremy
[Edit by Jeremy on [TIME]1126722041[/TIME]]
Yes, but you started with an M30B35, so that's a little different
Why doesn't the TPS from a sport auto e28 work? Is it not progressive like that e34 auto TPS is?
Jeremy
[Edit by Jeremy on [TIME]1126722041[/TIME]]
The M30B35 trigger wheel is not integral to the pulley -- it's a separate piece, at least on the M30B35 I have out of an E24.
I've never seen one like that, I have two, one from an E34 and one from an E32, both have the main pulley integral to the damper/trigger wheel and the other pulleys bolt to it, like the one in Dukes pictures. Are you sure you are not thinking of the bolt on pulleys and forgetting the single built-in pulley? It seems odd they would use a different one for the E24.
What do you do about the cam sync signal?
Most TEC 3 setups would not need one, the basic system is designed to use a waste spark style ignition, you can go full sequential, but the benefits are very minimal in most applications. If you wanted a full sequential system, it should not be too difficult to put a second sensor up where the distributor cap used to go, since it no longer serves any purpose other than funny looking dust cap if you don't replace it with a cover like on Duke's engine. You could mount the wheel where the rotor mounted. But you would add a lot of expense and complexity to the install.
[QUOTE="gol10dr1"]i used all my original sensors, with the exception of an added throttle position sensor.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Jeremy"]Yes, but you started with an M30B35, so that's a little different
Why doesn't the TPS from a sport auto e28 work? Is it not progressive like that e34 auto TPS is?
Jeremy
[Edit by Jeremy on [TIME]1126722041[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
The TPS sensors are the same on a E28 or E34 manual M30s. The later E34 with auto or V8 had the rehostat type TPS, along with the E32s. Those are the ones we use for the TPS stuff with Tec3, S-AFC, MAF Tuner Pro, Split Second PSC etc.
The M30b35 uses a hall effect pickup sensor on the #6 cylinder wire. Thats how the E34, E24, E32 do cam position sensor. Thats the extra wire with a connector on it when you buy a wire set for those cars.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126757114[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="Jeremy"]Yes, but you started with an M30B35, so that's a little different
Why doesn't the TPS from a sport auto e28 work? Is it not progressive like that e34 auto TPS is?
Jeremy
[Edit by Jeremy on [TIME]1126722041[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
The TPS sensors are the same on a E28 or E34 manual M30s. The later E34 with auto or V8 had the rehostat type TPS, along with the E32s. Those are the ones we use for the TPS stuff with Tec3, S-AFC, MAF Tuner Pro, Split Second PSC etc.
The M30b35 uses a hall effect pickup sensor on the #6 cylinder wire. Thats how the E34, E24, E32 do cam position sensor. Thats the extra wire with a connector on it when you buy a wire set for those cars.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126757114[/TIME]]
So I should be able to get the wheel & braket, the TPS sensor off of a E34 and It sounds like if we got a set of those wires we could change the incoming cam signal to hall effect and use those wires. I found the spot in the TEC to change the cam signal to Hall Effect.The later E34 with auto or V8 had the rehostat type TPS, along with the E32s. Those are the ones we use for the TPS stuff with Tec3, S-AFC, MAF Tuner Pro, Split Second PSC etc.
The M30b35 uses a hall effect pickup sensor on the #6 cylinder wire. Thats how the E34, E24, E32 do cam position sensor. Thats the extra wire with a connector on it when you buy a wire set for those cars.
The ECU is mounted and we are going on the wiring.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1126757114[/TIME]]
[/QUOTE]
So I should be able to get the wheel & braket, the TPS sensor off of a E34 and It sounds like if we got a set of those wires we could change the incoming cam signal to hall effect and use those wires. I found the spot in the TEC to change the cam signal to Hall Effect.
The stock sensor on the ignition wire is useless with the Electromotive system since the TEC is designed to be a distributorless wasted spark or one coil per cylinder system. That sensor only gives an accurate impulse of cam position because the stock ignition is fed from a single coil through the cam driven rotor and distributor cap, which acts to physically isolate and sequence the spark signals.
You would be asking the TEC to supply itself with the signal it needs to create the proper signal in the first place. In full sequential mode it would probably never send a spark since it would need the spark signal to calculate when to send the spark signal. In wasted spark mode it would get twice the required number of signals.
The M30B35 trigger wheel is not integral to the pulley -- it's a separate piece, at least on the M30B35 I have out of an E24.
Hmm... now that you mention that, perhaps I'm mistaken. The parts are 30 miles away from my house, so I'll try to remember to eyeball them when I'm there next time.DMNaskale wrote:I've never seen one like that, I have two, one from an E34 and one from an E32, both have the main pulley integral to the damper/trigger wheel and the other pulleys bolt to it, like the one in Dukes pictures. Are you sure you are not thinking of the bolt on pulleys and forgetting the single built-in pulley?
The realoem.com site agrees with you:
So I should be able to get the wheel & braket, the TPS sensor off of a E34 and It sounds like if we got a set of those wires we could change the incoming cam signal to hall effect and use those wires. I found the spot in the TEC to change the cam signal to Hall Effect.
The stock sensor on the ignition wire is useless with the Electromotive system since the TEC is designed to be a distributorless wasted spark or one coil per cylinder system. That sensor only gives an accurate impulse of cam position because the stock ignition is fed from a single coil through the cam driven rotor and distributor cap, which acts to physically isolate and sequence the spark signals.
You would be asking the TEC to supply itself with the signal it needs to create the proper signal in the first place. In full sequential mode it would probably never send a spark since it would need the spark signal to calculate when to send the spark signal. In wasted spark mode it would get twice the required number of signals.
Yes, but if you had a cam signal then you could run in full sequential mode, I was talking about only using tthe plug wire for the cam signal not for the actual spark trigger.DMNaskale wrote:
The stock sensor on the ignition wire is useless with the Electromotive system since the TEC is designed to be a distributorless wasted spark or one coil per cylinder system. That sensor only gives an accurate impulse of cam position because the stock ignition is fed from a single coil through the cam driven rotor and distributor cap, which acts to physically isolate and sequence the spark signals.
You would be asking the TEC to supply itself with the signal it needs to create the proper signal in the first place. In full sequential mode it would probably never send a spark since it would need the spark signal to calculate when to send the spark signal. In wasted spark mode it would get twice the required number of signals.
Yes, but if you had a cam signal then you could run in full sequential mode, I was talking about only using tthe plug wire for the cam signal not for the actual spark trigger.
The problem is you can't get a true cam signal from the ignition cable pickup without using a single coil/distributor cap and rotor system, like the stock setup. You need a signal that occurs once every rotation of the camshaft (every two revolutions of the crank), to tell the system which cycle the engine is on, not just TDC, but TDC and valve event status.
The heart of the TEC system is the ignition, and it is at a minimum a waste spark system. In this mode it does not need a cam input because it is firing every crank revolution based on the crank trigger 60-2 wheel input. This would not produce a useable cam signal from the ignition wire input.
Upgrade to one coil per cylinder to go full sequential and it will need a true cam position signal to know when the correct TDC is occuring to fire on. It can't create the spark that you need for the ignition cable sensor to function properly, without a true cam signal already existing. Can you see the Catch-22 here?
Why do you need to go full sequential, anyway? Do you have a specific issue or reason to do it? Otherwise it provides no real benefit, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference except in the wallet.
Daryl
We don't really Daryl, this is the second TEC 3 that I have worked on and the first install. First BMW for sure. I mostly work on big horsepower domestic stuff 1000hp+ FAST, Accel, Big Stuff 3 EFI systems. We have tuned a yellow Scirocco that had TEC 3, it was in Eurotuner magazine a couple of months ago. I usually run EFI in sequential mode if I can because of the better idle quality but I see your point here. We will keep it simple and use the waste spark.
Does anyone have a Bosch part number or something else for the TPS sensor?
Does anyone have a Bosch part number or something else for the TPS sensor?
Couldn't you use the stock distributor cap and rotor as a cam position sensor? Just put a switched wire w/ 12 volts to the rotor plug on the cap and a wire to the TEC 3 from one of the cylinder wire plugs. This would give you a 12v square wave every 720 degrees. You may/have to file down the rotor in order to get the right pulse width.
[QUOTE="altus22"]Couldn't you use the stock distributor cap and rotor as a cam position sensor? Just put a switched wire w/ 12 volts to the rotor plug on the cap and a wire to the TEC 3 from one of the cylinder wire plugs. This would give you a 12v square wave every 720 degrees. You may/have to file down the rotor in order to get the right pulse width.[/QUOTE]
That would not work. The rotor tip and cap terminals do not make physical contact on this engine or on any engine I've ever seen.
That would not work. The rotor tip and cap terminals do not make physical contact on this engine or on any engine I've ever seen.