I attended a dyno day in Columbus last Saturday hoping to get a few pulls but arrived late and all the spots were taken. I hung out for a few hours and a 2002 GTI gets on the dyno. I do not get too excited until I here it puts down 348fwhp/358fwtq at 25psi! It had a APR Stage 3 kit. I practically beg the young man to run me in my old 325i. He wants to run from 70mph but I decline. I am getting old and wise and a 70-140mph run in the middle of the day on public roads seemed a little too risky. I finally talk him into a run from 40mph. It's a short but sweet run from 40-95. I hit the brakes at 95mph when the outcome is not in doubt.
My 325i has a recently rebuilt but totally stock m20b25 with a Cometic MLS HG and Raceware head studs as the only mods. Running a 1 bar boost spring the engine was seeing a solid 16psi. Ambient temp was 25F. Car felt pretty stout.
GTI turned the boost down slightly for the run and was carrying a single passenger with video camera.
Props to the driver of the GTI who emailed me the video!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0874&q=TCD
Enjoy,
Todd
[Edit by TCD on [TIME]1133909582[/TIME]]
TCD-s2 325i vs GTI 1.8T (video back up)
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Lee in Ottawa
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
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rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
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rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Nice,
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC
For the 1.8 GTI to have a chance it would have to be spun way up and stay there. Did it even get close to spun up?
I think the e30 would win in any kind of race though because it would make more power in more of the RPM range than the GTI anyway. The GTI would make more just at the very top of the range.
I think the e30 would win in any kind of race though because it would make more power in more of the RPM range than the GTI anyway. The GTI would make more just at the very top of the range.
[QUOTE="russc"]Nice,
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC[/QUOTE]
It was a 5 speed. No way he was ever going to catch me! Aerodynamics didn't help that 996 that I destroyed in my 535i a few years ago.
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC[/QUOTE]
It was a 5 speed. No way he was ever going to catch me! Aerodynamics didn't help that 996 that I destroyed in my 535i a few years ago.
[QUOTE="Jesse "]For the 1.8 GTI to have a chance it would have to be spun way up and stay there. Did it even get close to spun up?
I think the e30 would win in any kind of race though because it would make more power in more of the RPM range than the GTI anyway. The GTI would make more just at the very top of the range. [/QUOTE]
It actually makes great power from 4500-7000rpm. Very simialr to the m20b25 actually.
Todd
I think the e30 would win in any kind of race though because it would make more power in more of the RPM range than the GTI anyway. The GTI would make more just at the very top of the range. [/QUOTE]
It actually makes great power from 4500-7000rpm. Very simialr to the m20b25 actually.
Todd
I guess I don't remeber the 996 story, refresh my memory(a link to a thread I forgot?)? Did you guys race to say 160-170mph? That would be where I think the BMW '80s bricks would fall down. Now granted, you are running 75-90hp more than a stock 996. Its that 120mph and higher area Im not sure about. A few tenths in the Cd scale can make a big difference at those speeds. And, as I said, it "may" be faster, not "is" faster 
RussC
[QUOTE="russc"]Nice,
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TCD"]It was a 5 speed. No way he was ever going to catch me! Aerodynamics didn't help that 996 that I destroyed in my 535i a few years ago.[/QUOTE]
RussC
[QUOTE="russc"]Nice,
Umm, if you watch that vid carefully, the only reason that GTI pulled intially was that he got on the gas 0.5 second before Todd. The driver thats runs the horn will usally have a slight jump as its only natural to WOT just as the horn is blown, and you can see it in the video. Todd has to hear it, then react, so the avg reaction time for humans is 0.6s. Thats the difference.
But, I will take the GTI side on a hunch. And that is at much higher speeds the GTI might pull a E30 brick due to better aerodynamics, but that would be in the 120mph and higher range where that may make a difference.
Was that GTI a auto?
RussC[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TCD"]It was a 5 speed. No way he was ever going to catch me! Aerodynamics didn't help that 996 that I destroyed in my 535i a few years ago.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="TCD"]It actually makes great power from 4500-7000rpm. Very simialr to the m20b25 actually.
Todd[/QUOTE]
Are you saying you had comparable power but you walked away anyway? Did he bog it down then (screw up)? Please elaborate.
Either you had more in the RPM range you were in or he screwed up or you were a lot lighter then him. Am I missing something here? It stands to reason that his little 1.8 could not load up his big turbo fast enough to spin up/spool up to his prime power point - right??
Todd[/QUOTE]
Are you saying you had comparable power but you walked away anyway? Did he bog it down then (screw up)? Please elaborate.
Either you had more in the RPM range you were in or he screwed up or you were a lot lighter then him. Am I missing something here? It stands to reason that his little 1.8 could not load up his big turbo fast enough to spin up/spool up to his prime power point - right??
Jesse,
You need the facts.
Turbos
GTI = GT28RS ball bearing
325i = T04E-50
I was the one with the bigger turbo. He is maxxed out on his.
GTI = 2932lbs plus 150lb passenger
325i = 2765lbs no passenger
317lb weight advantage. That's enough to justify the result.
Incidentals:
This was not my first street race. I chose a speed that was ideal for my car. 4600rpm in 2nd gear. I figured the HP was abt even or I had an advantage. I also knew I had a weight advantage. Result was just as I expected.
Todd
[Edit by TCD on [TIME]1134161073[/TIME]]
You need the facts.
Turbos
GTI = GT28RS ball bearing
325i = T04E-50
I was the one with the bigger turbo. He is maxxed out on his.
GTI = 2932lbs plus 150lb passenger
325i = 2765lbs no passenger
317lb weight advantage. That's enough to justify the result.
Incidentals:
This was not my first street race. I chose a speed that was ideal for my car. 4600rpm in 2nd gear. I figured the HP was abt even or I had an advantage. I also knew I had a weight advantage. Result was just as I expected.
Todd
[Edit by TCD on [TIME]1134161073[/TIME]]
I guess I don't remeber the 996 story, refresh my memory(a link to a thread I forgot?)? Did you guys race to say 160-170mph? That would be where I think the BMW '80s bricks would fall down. Now granted, you are running 75-90hp more than a stock 996. Its that 120mph and higher area Im not sure about. A few tenths in the Cd scale can make a big difference at those speeds. And, as I said, it "may" be faster, not "is" faster
RussC
]
December 2003
535i non intercooled vs 996C4S
70-130
Complete destruction, probably 6-8 car lengths!
Right,
Ok, so ya, the same thing as above, ~15% more power, 400lbs less weight. Thats ~right. Thats the beauty of these old cars, less weight than modern cars.
RussC
December 2003
535i non intercooled vs 996C4S
70-130
Complete destruction, probably 6-8 car lengths!
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1134160787[/TIME]]
Ok, so ya, the same thing as above, ~15% more power, 400lbs less weight. Thats ~right. Thats the beauty of these old cars, less weight than modern cars.
RussC
I guess I don't remeber the 996 story, refresh my memory(a link to a thread I forgot?)? Did you guys race to say 160-170mph? That would be where I think the BMW '80s bricks would fall down. Now granted, you are running 75-90hp more than a stock 996. Its that 120mph and higher area Im not sure about. A few tenths in the Cd scale can make a big difference at those speeds. And, as I said, it "may" be faster, not "is" faster
RussC
]
December 2003
535i non intercooled vs 996C4S
70-130
Complete destruction, probably 6-8 car lengths!
TCD wrote:
December 2003
535i non intercooled vs 996C4S
70-130
Complete destruction, probably 6-8 car lengths!
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1134160787[/TIME]]
I was the lucky passenger in Todd's 535i when we raced the 996. The expression on the Porker driver's face was priceless as he helplessly moved over (before Todd mowed him down) @ 90 and we passed him like he was standing still. No doubt aerodynamics would eventally tip the scales back in the 996's favor, but no one would ever see that velocity on US roads.
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Threeshifter
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
[QUOTE="TCD"]Jesse,
You need the facts.
Turbos
GTI = GT28RS ball bearing
325i = T04E-50
I was the one with the bigger turbo. He is maxxed out on his.
GTI = 2932lbs plus 150lb passenger
325i = 2765lbs no passenger
317lb weight advantage. That's enough to justify the result.
Incidentals:
This was not my first street race. I chose a speed that was ideal for my car. 4600rpm in 2nd gear. I figured the HP was abt even or I had an advantage. I also knew I had a weight advantage. Result was just as I expected.
Todd
[Edit by TCD on [TIME]1134161073[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
Yep. Facts are always good.
You need the facts.
Turbos
GTI = GT28RS ball bearing
325i = T04E-50
I was the one with the bigger turbo. He is maxxed out on his.
GTI = 2932lbs plus 150lb passenger
325i = 2765lbs no passenger
317lb weight advantage. That's enough to justify the result.
Incidentals:
This was not my first street race. I chose a speed that was ideal for my car. 4600rpm in 2nd gear. I figured the HP was abt even or I had an advantage. I also knew I had a weight advantage. Result was just as I expected.
Todd
[Edit by TCD on [TIME]1134161073[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
Yep. Facts are always good.