camshaft?
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bmwfan2304
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
I am starting to offer N/A and turbo cams for the m30 these cams will really help out for power in all areas of the power curve. http://bmwturbos.scottiesharpe.com/foru ... ORUM_ID=29
[Edit by 345is on [TIME]1137527132[/TIME]]
[Edit by 345is on [TIME]1137527132[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="345is"]I am starting to offer N/A and turbo cams for the m30 these cams will really help out for power in all areas of the power curve. http://bmwturbos.scottiesharpe.com/foru ... ORUM_ID=29
[Edit by 345is on [TIME]1137527132[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
so what are the cam specs? Lift duration etc.? And a price? I looked at your link to the site but didnt find much..
[Edit by 345is on [TIME]1137527132[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
so what are the cam specs? Lift duration etc.? And a price? I looked at your link to the site but didnt find much..
[QUOTE="bmwfan2304"]stock cams are pretty much the best for a turbo system... if you upgrade the cam before getting a turbo then you'll have too much overlap with the turbo... there is someone on the boards supposedly building a "turbo" head for the M30 which should have milder cams.[/QUOTE]
stock are?? There must be a much better way to actually achieve power above 5k
stock are?? There must be a much better way to actually achieve power above 5k
Mike,
A good turbo setup will over come a low duration cam. My stock m30b34 pulled all the way to redline. There are basically three OEM cams available that are suitable for a turbo setup.
The 260, 264 and 270 all work well. It just depends on what style of driving you do and where you want the power.
260 = early and big torque. More HP than torque
264= equal HP/TQ
270= more HP than TQ and later spool up.
All these are available new for less than $250.
I have used all three and prefer the 260 for a daily driver.
Todd
A good turbo setup will over come a low duration cam. My stock m30b34 pulled all the way to redline. There are basically three OEM cams available that are suitable for a turbo setup.
The 260, 264 and 270 all work well. It just depends on what style of driving you do and where you want the power.
260 = early and big torque. More HP than torque
264= equal HP/TQ
270= more HP than TQ and later spool up.
All these are available new for less than $250.
I have used all three and prefer the 260 for a daily driver.
Todd
[QUOTE="TCD"]Mike,
A good turbo setup will over come a low duration cam. My stock m30b34 pulled all the way to redline. There are basically three OEM cams available that are suitable for a turbo setup.
The 260, 264 and 270 all work well. It just depends on what style of driving you do and where you want the power.
260 = early and big torque. More HP than torque
264= equal HP/TQ
270= more HP than TQ and later spool up.
All these are available new for less than $250.
I have used all three and prefer the 260 for a daily driver.
Todd[/QUOTE]
so which cam comes with which engine? What does mine probably have? The 260? Where can you buy these cams?
I thought I had read a recent post with some dyno charts showing a massive drop in power after about 5k? Thought I remember ppl saying that was normal/common, so it just seemed like it should be addressed, atleast if the engine is being rebuilt.. Im not looking for huge numbers, but dont want a big power loss at 5 grand
schrick doesnt make something that would help out f/i?
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137535123[/TIME]]
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137535198[/TIME]]
A good turbo setup will over come a low duration cam. My stock m30b34 pulled all the way to redline. There are basically three OEM cams available that are suitable for a turbo setup.
The 260, 264 and 270 all work well. It just depends on what style of driving you do and where you want the power.
260 = early and big torque. More HP than torque
264= equal HP/TQ
270= more HP than TQ and later spool up.
All these are available new for less than $250.
I have used all three and prefer the 260 for a daily driver.
Todd[/QUOTE]
so which cam comes with which engine? What does mine probably have? The 260? Where can you buy these cams?
I thought I had read a recent post with some dyno charts showing a massive drop in power after about 5k? Thought I remember ppl saying that was normal/common, so it just seemed like it should be addressed, atleast if the engine is being rebuilt.. Im not looking for huge numbers, but dont want a big power loss at 5 grand
schrick doesnt make something that would help out f/i?
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137535123[/TIME]]
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137535198[/TIME]]
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Rich Euro M5
- Posts: 6098
- Joined: Mar 10, 2006 6:20 AM
- Location: Klein, Texas
Thought I remember ppl saying that was normal/common, so it just seemed like it should be addressed, atleast if the engine is being rebuilt.. Im not looking for huge numbers, but dont want a big power loss at 5 grand
IIRC, the primary cause of the power rolling off at 5K RPM is due to the engines inability to breath. To make more power you have to be able to get the fresh A/F mixture in and get the spent exhaust out of the engine. Turbocharging offers a simple and effective way of doing just that. BMW did create a solution to the 5k rolloff problem, it's called an S38B35, the M5 engine. Basically an M30/M90 lower end with a DOHC 4V / Cylinder head. The M5s have a very flat torque curve right up to the engine's redline.
Rich
[Edit by Euro M88 on [TIME]1137539681[/TIME]]
The MILLER Performance cam for the M30 will most definatly give you the results that you want. Its a 282 and we are only changing the intake valve`s duration. the exhaust valve is opening sooner and closing sooner, this will result in better spooling and will move your power curve up in the higher RPM. the price for these cams will be around 435.00 plus shiping.
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Rich Euro M5
- Posts: 6098
- Joined: Mar 10, 2006 6:20 AM
- Location: Klein, Texas
[QUOTE="345is"]The MILLER Performance cam for the M30 will most definatly give you the results that you want. Its a 282 and we are only changing the intake valve`s duration. the exhaust valve is opening sooner and closing sooner, this will result in better spooling and will move your power curve up in the higher RPM. the price for these cams will be around 435.00 plus shiping.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you're saying, but I wanted to verify what I think you're trying to say.
First we have to make a couple of assumptions about BMW cams used in the M30 engine. IIRC, they're ground on a common centerline for both intake and exhaust, ie 108, 110 degree. Typically they are symmetrical cams, possibly the same lift / duration for intake and exhaust and ground on the same centerline.
What you're describing is an assymetrical cam. The lifts might be the same on intake and exhaust, but the duration is different and the cam might be ground on different centerlines for exhaust and intake.
To put in very basic terms, you're increasing the duration of the intake to increase the amount of A/F mixture entering the combustion chamber during the intake stroke. By shifting the centerline (this allows one to open/close the valve sooner) of the exhaust profile and keeping the duration the same, you've decreased the overlap (overlap is bad for turbo engines) to reduce the amount of the fresh A/F mixture going out the exhaust.
The other possibility I can think of if you're not using different cam centerlines for intake/exhaust, is the use of different cam lobe ramp profiles on the exhaust side of the cam. Opening the cam quicker is usually fairly painless, however it's my undertsanding one must be careful with the design of the ramp when closing the valve using this approach. Done incorrectly one can expect problems with valve seats.
How about providing a little more info on how your cams are designed. You don't need to post numbers or give away your secrets, just a brief description like I provided.
And if I'm all wet in my understanding of cams in general, please re-educate me. I'm recalling this stuff from my drag racing days during my youth several decades ago.
Rich
[Edit by Euro M88 on [TIME]1137541574[/TIME]]
I understand what you're saying, but I wanted to verify what I think you're trying to say.
First we have to make a couple of assumptions about BMW cams used in the M30 engine. IIRC, they're ground on a common centerline for both intake and exhaust, ie 108, 110 degree. Typically they are symmetrical cams, possibly the same lift / duration for intake and exhaust and ground on the same centerline.
What you're describing is an assymetrical cam. The lifts might be the same on intake and exhaust, but the duration is different and the cam might be ground on different centerlines for exhaust and intake.
To put in very basic terms, you're increasing the duration of the intake to increase the amount of A/F mixture entering the combustion chamber during the intake stroke. By shifting the centerline (this allows one to open/close the valve sooner) of the exhaust profile and keeping the duration the same, you've decreased the overlap (overlap is bad for turbo engines) to reduce the amount of the fresh A/F mixture going out the exhaust.
The other possibility I can think of if you're not using different cam centerlines for intake/exhaust, is the use of different cam lobe ramp profiles on the exhaust side of the cam. Opening the cam quicker is usually fairly painless, however it's my undertsanding one must be careful with the design of the ramp when closing the valve using this approach. Done incorrectly one can expect problems with valve seats.
How about providing a little more info on how your cams are designed. You don't need to post numbers or give away your secrets, just a brief description like I provided.
And if I'm all wet in my understanding of cams in general, please re-educate me. I'm recalling this stuff from my drag racing days during my youth several decades ago.
Rich
[Edit by Euro M88 on [TIME]1137541574[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="TCD"]You did read that and it was in reference to 745i systems. Here is my dyno chart from our prototype non intercooled setup. Stock m30b34 with 260 cam.
What turbo setup do you intend to run? [/QUOTE]
probably a manifold from you guys or similar log style with a t04e, megasquirt and air/air intercooler. Stock internals and pistons, just a rebuild with your headgasket and the other necessary gaskets seals etc. Id like to run around 10 psi and get 300-350 whp. Id also like to bump the boost up to something like 15-17 for the track. I know its achievable with the power dropping off, i just feel like its not being done right if the power curve looks like that.
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137542994[/TIME]]
What turbo setup do you intend to run? [/QUOTE]
probably a manifold from you guys or similar log style with a t04e, megasquirt and air/air intercooler. Stock internals and pistons, just a rebuild with your headgasket and the other necessary gaskets seals etc. Id like to run around 10 psi and get 300-350 whp. Id also like to bump the boost up to something like 15-17 for the track. I know its achievable with the power dropping off, i just feel like its not being done right if the power curve looks like that.
[Edit by bmwmike on [TIME]1137542994[/TIME]]
Todd is right you cant complain about that dyno chart, thats good for a M30. these old engines were not designed for high reving. the power curve will not change much from that no matter what you do. you can always improve but at what cost? we are dealing with very available and cheap motors here, there not an M motor. but dont get me wrong I love the M30, I just think that what you are asking of it is out of its league. if you want a curve that keeps going up, Get an M3 and put a supercharger on it, It will then make peak hp at its red line.
[QUOTE="Tjn182"]One thing I never see much of is dyno charts with turbo cars after a performance/turbo cam was put in. I would surely like to see the results.[/QUOTE]
Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]]
Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]]
[QUOTE="russc"]Theres Todds 745i with manual, 056 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC[/QUOTE]
Suprisingly Jason's graph seems to fall off rather early although it made impressive power for 10psi non intercooled.
RussC[/QUOTE]
Suprisingly Jason's graph seems to fall off rather early although it made impressive power for 10psi non intercooled.
[QUOTE="Tjn182"]One thing I never see much of is dyno charts with turbo cars after a performance/turbo cam was put in. I would surely like to see the results.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="russc"]Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
aright ive searched for hours and havent found them. Could you please just post the dynos and info for us?
[QUOTE="russc"]Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
aright ive searched for hours and havent found them. Could you please just post the dynos and info for us?
[QUOTE="russc"]TCD 745i at top of page now,
Jasons goes way back, if you like I can send the dyno chart. Or, I'll find the post tomorrow.
RussC[/QUOTE]
thanks, and yeah if you could pull up the other. Im liking the idea of adding the turbo cam, i thought those numbers seemed pretty impressive all the way up (the pic was broken but he compared the power curve to the e39 M5).
Jasons goes way back, if you like I can send the dyno chart. Or, I'll find the post tomorrow.
RussC[/QUOTE]
thanks, and yeah if you could pull up the other. Im liking the idea of adding the turbo cam, i thought those numbers seemed pretty impressive all the way up (the pic was broken but he compared the power curve to the e39 M5).
anyone know what cam this is. i have been trying to figure it out. its stamped with the following. 1.705.776 LYND2
Picture here. It has this M stamped on it too. See my nice and clean new pretty head. Only 10K miles on her
Camshaft Picture
Picture here. It has this M stamped on it too. See my nice and clean new pretty head. Only 10K miles on her
Camshaft Picture
[QUOTE="russc"]Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
russ, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jason say that this cam was actually designed as an NA cam but it coincidentally worked well on FI applications? on another note, how is jason doing? haven't heard an update on him in a while.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
russ, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jason say that this cam was actually designed as an NA cam but it coincidentally worked well on FI applications? on another note, how is jason doing? haven't heard an update on him in a while.
[QUOTE="russc"]Theres Todds 745i with manual, 059 ECU, TCD Turbo system and the b33 cam(somewhere between 270-274degree). That was a nice looking dyno. There also Jasons(?) 345i with the MM turbo grind cam(reported to by 282degree) dynos. I have both of the those dyno charts on my system. There are threads in this forum with much discussion on those dyno charts.
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="gol10dr1"]russ, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jason say that this cam was actually designed as an NA cam but it coincidentally worked well on FI applications? on another note, how is jason doing? haven't heard an update on him in a while.[/QUOTE]
Now that you mention it, that sounds right. I guess its in theroy a 282 MM re-grind.
RussC
RussC
[Edit by russc on [TIME]1137702431[/TIME]][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="gol10dr1"]russ, correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jason say that this cam was actually designed as an NA cam but it coincidentally worked well on FI applications? on another note, how is jason doing? haven't heard an update on him in a while.[/QUOTE]
Now that you mention it, that sounds right. I guess its in theroy a 282 MM re-grind.
RussC