Civil discussions in person?

[Mike W.]

As often as any sort of a social or political discussion turns into a sh**storm here I wonder how it goes in person? Personally I try to keep a civil tone no matter how ludicrous I find a persons statements even here. I'll sometimes make an exception if I think someone is just insulting because they disagree, but really I'd rather discuss. And in person like at work, I'll sometimes refer to guys, in person, as right wing gun nuts, but in the same breath refer to myself as a wild eyed leftist. And none of those have gone south like many here. Often we find something to agree on by the end of the day even if I think of them as right of Attila and they think of me as left of Lenin. But not so much here.

Comments? F bombs? Slander? Threats?

[Karl Grau]

My personal experience has been that politics rarely if ever come up at car events. I don't think it's by design, it's just that we're car geeks first and we never get around to talking about anything other than cars.
There are plenty of clueless right wing douchebags on this Board whom I consider close friends.

[tones]

My personal experience has been that politics rarely if ever come up at car events. I don't think it's by design, it's just that we're car geeks first and we never get around to talking about anything other than cars.
There are plenty of clueless right wing douchebags on this Board whom I consider close friends.

Most car guys are right wing douchebags. Hell most car guys are just douche bags.

[Kyle in NO]

Most people from Chicago are douchebags as well.

[C.R. Krieger]

I know that most of the guys here are multifaceted and the points on which we disagree have never come up in person; especially if there's beer, bacon, or an old BMW to be fixed in the immediate vicinity. There are a few that I don't find to have an appealing side, but I won't bother to argue in person. I simply try to avoid them.

[AT8M5]

Most people from NO are douchebags as well.

Karl

[C.R. Krieger]

Most people from NO are douchebags as well.

Karl

I thought he was an asshole ...

[slimdevil27]

Most people from NO are douchebags as well.

Karl

I thought he was an asshole ...

Definitely a douchebag.......


cuz after he's done with your momma, she smells better.

[TheE28Ranch]

There is a big difference between here and realtime face-to-face, for sure, I believe. In September over O'Fest I had lunch with C.R. and we had a civil-like discussion on guns among other things. He is obviously against 30-round magazine clips, for example; while I buy boxes of ammo by the 1000 when I see a good deal (and I have multiple loaded-up 30 round mags in my safe.) It was all good, the conversation that is.

Then I read a more recent comment here by C.R. that was along the lines of "...You NRA circle-jerkers....". This was not the pleasant agree-to-disagree type of discussion we had over lunch. While I understand everyone has their own opinions, I found the choice of words offensive and inflammatory. I actually felt spite at C.R. for it too, as a knee-jerk reaction. But I am an adult (and usually behave as such) and I know he is a good guy, so the feeling quickly went away. Now I'm just waiting for a good chubby-guy joke opportunity to get him back.

[GKLCPA]

As often as any sort of a social or political discussion turns into a sh**storm here I wonder how it goes in person? Personally I try to keep a civil tone no matter how ludicrous I find a persons statements even here. I'll sometimes make an exception if I think someone is just insulting because they disagree, but really I'd rather discuss. And in person like at work, I'll sometimes refer to guys, in person, as right wing gun nuts, but in the same breath refer to myself as a wild eyed leftist. And none of those have gone south like many here. Often we find something to agree on by the end of the day even if I think of them as right of Attila and they think of me as left of Lenin. But not so much here.

Comments? F bombs? Slander? Threats?

I think some people come here simply to fight. Personally, I'm here to learn and I can learn even if I disagree with someone. During the course of my day, I may have to contend with things in which that I have no other choice, so why come here and fight? As I've said, what someone thinks here generally isn't going to have a profound impact on my life---unless it's positive.

I'm old school in many ways and I think there's still room for someone to be a gentleman rather than a hard ankle. I think if we want society to change and be better, the first person to start with is yourself. For example, if you insult someone or curse at them in response to their comments, what other result can there be other than a fight? A fight over what? Someone's thoughts or some perceived slight ? This is very same basis for many senseless killings to be honest.

It is possible to disagree without condemning the other person, impugning their motives or slandering them.

[djazz]

I've learned over the years that I have a much better chance of staying out of jail if I just keep my mouth shut in the first place.

It's even better when a conversation can stay on agreeable topics like the aforementioned beer, bacon, and BMWs.

[AT8M5]

I've learned over the years that I have a much better chance of staying out of jail if I just keep my mouth shut in the first place.

It's even better when a conversation can stay on agreeable topics like the aforementioned beer, bacon, and BMWs.

Bacon? Did somebody say bacon? Cracked pepper and mesquite smoked.

Karl

[Duke]

[Matt]

People are more reserved in ND in general. At work, most of the people I talk to are at least partially sympathetic to much of what I say, but if they disagree, they usually aren't especially vocal about it.

In other settings, when a discussion/debate has begun in person, I am just as overbearing and unrelenting in real life as I am on the internet . When people say something stupid I don't let go of it until they capitulate or walk away in disgust.

So I'm very popular at parties Apparently, there are "social cues" and all kinds of other subjective signals. So for instance, when there are 10 idiots spouting off about how great Obama is, normal people are apparently supposed to know that they are supposed to stay quiet while the bullshit flows unabated.

My reception equipment for these social signals is entirely broken. I figure if someone starts running their mouth about something, they deserve to get called on it. People with stupid opinions should never feel safe.

When it is clear that someone doesn't respond to reason, I write them out of my life to the extent it makes sense. If they provide some side value to me, I work on retaining the side value.

My wife has a friend whos political opinions and worldview are emotionally driven nonsense. I try to never say anything serious when she is in earshot, since I like her husband and my kid likes her kid.

I tend to not "start" the insults or use of pejorative terms, either here or in face to face settings. Usually just disagreeing with someone is enough to piss them off. People don't like to have their worldview shaken or messed with; it is especially threatening in real life I guess.

[alijonny]

Beer keeps the conversations in line while in person.


Also, to me, it seems that everyone clears their minds and focuses on BMWs. There is no need to get all pissed off during a short trip or vacation.

[Adam W in MN]

Usually just disagreeing with someone is enough to piss them off. People don't like to have their worldview shaken or messed with; it is especially threatening in real life I guess.

Matt I like this point you made, and I think it applies especially here on the board. In person a disagreement on a topic may be something you are more likely to let go or ask the other person why they feel that way, help me understand? But on the board as I said in my other post about the CT shooting it turns into the I'm-right-fuck-you syndrome.

[Brian in TN]

The in-person events/meetings are quite interdasting potatoe.

PS: toaster

[tones]

Usually just disagreeing with someone is enough to piss them off. People don't like to have their worldview shaken or messed with; it is especially threatening in real life I guess.

Matt I like this point you made, and I think it applies especially here on the board. In person a disagreement on a topic may be something you are more likely to let go or ask the other person why they feel that way, help me understand? But on the board as I said in my other post about the CT shooting it turns into the I'm-right-fuck-you syndrome.

Its not some one its Americans. I disagree with my European friends and it is an actual good conversation where minds can be changed or molded. God i miss Europe.
With Americans its just a bunch of "independent" douchebags that you can't tell them anything this goes from left to right.

[oldskool]

I bet my dog could beat up Tones dog.

[Matt]

I disagree with my European friends and it is an actual good conversation where minds can be changed or molded.

That hasn't been my experience. Conversations have ranged from "agree to disagree" to "Bush is the devil" to total disbeleif that anyone could live like we do (with big houses, multiple cars, and especially *gasp* GUNS)

It's honestly pretty interesting being an American visiting Europe. I'm not a proxy or conduit via which Europe gets to air its frustrations with the US. I didn't go to Germany to tell the Germans how badly they do things. It was honestly surprising for me how comfortable Europeans felt dumping all over the US to my wife and I. Like, it was a fashionable and safe thing to do, therefore they should do it.

God i miss Europe.

It's still over there, you know.

[oldskool]

Civil discourse in person? Nah. I resort to this.

[ldsbeaker]

You guys are just showing your true colors. I had an off-line conversation with someone and asked if he was commie pinko basterd or right wing nutjob. Seems that when these conversations come up, THERE IS NO MIDDLE, only extremes/extremists.

Frankly, I'm quite disturbed at how you guys act here. True colors, indeed.

[davintosh]

There is a big difference between here and realtime face-to-face, for sure, I believe. In September over O'Fest I had lunch with C.R. and we had a civil-like discussion on guns among other things. He is obviously against 30-round magazine clips, for example; while I buy boxes of ammo by the 1000 when I see a good deal (and I have multiple loaded-up 30 round mags in my safe.) It was all good, the conversation that is.

Then I read a more recent comment here by C.R. that was along the lines of "...You NRA circle-jerkers....". This was not the pleasant agree-to-disagree type of discussion we had over lunch. While I understand everyone has their own opinions, I found the choice of words offensive and inflammatory. I actually felt spite at C.R. for it too, as a knee-jerk reaction. But I am an adult (and usually behave as such) and I know he is a good guy, so the feeling quickly went away. Now I'm just waiting for a good chubby-guy joke opportunity to get him back.

Funny... Not to pick on C.R., but I had a similar experience with him earlier this year; he stopped by on his way through the area and had lunch with us, and was great in person. But if he'd said some of the things to my face (or in front of my wife & kids) that he says around here, I would've bodily thrown him out, and maybe poked him in the face first. I think the semi-anonymity of the interwebs brings out a little sociopathy in all of us. When we're face-to-face, we're much less inclined to say something that we know will piss somebody off; much different when it's just me and my little glowing screen.

And then there's Matt.

I tend to not "start" the insults or use of pejorative terms, either here or in face to face settings. Usually just disagreeing with someone is enough to piss them off. People don't like to have their worldview shaken or messed with; it is especially threatening in real life I guess.

That's the big thing right there; people want to believe what they believe, and if somebody comes along who challenges deeply held beliefs that they maybe haven't given a lot of thought to, they lash out at the challenger.

[Kenny Blankenship]

I never did like Mike. Every time I see him he espouses these leftist radical ideas and it just gets my blood boiling. In fact, I recall this recent conversation with him when I saw him at the last Wrenchfest:

KENNY B: Well, I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Oh E23 owner, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the--

JAY 3: I didn't know we had an E23 owner. I thought we were an auto collective.

MIKE W: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

MIKE W: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting-- By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

JAY 3: Well, how did you become an E23 owner then?

KENNY B: The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft The Roundel from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Kenny B, was to carry The Roundel. [singing stops] That is why I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing Roundels is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

KENNY B: Be quiet!

MIKE W: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a Roundel at you!

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an E23 owner just because some moistened bint had lobbed a Roundel at me, they'd put me away!

KENNY B: Shut up, will you. Shut up!

MIKE W: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! I'm being repressed!

KENNY B: Bloody peasant!

MIKE W: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

I HATE SPAAAAAAAMMMM!!!

[a]

I have been inter acting on the inter net for 12 yrs now. I have always tried to be civil and self effacing in my inter net persona. You get people to open up and share their knowledge and experiences better. The inter net hard guys don't faze me, Ive been insulted by experts, in person. In some circles, cutting to the quick, is a sign of loving kinship.

[davintosh]

I never did like Mike. Every time I see him he espouses these leftist radical ideas and it just gets my blood boiling. In fact, I recall this recent conversation with him when I saw him at the last Wrenchfest:

KENNY B: Well, I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Oh E23 owner, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the--

JAY 3: I didn't know we had an E23 owner. I thought we were an auto collective.

MIKE W: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

MIKE W: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting-- By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

JAY 3: Well, how did you become an E23 owner then?

KENNY B: The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft The Roundel from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Kenny B, was to carry The Roundel. [singing stops] That is why I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing Roundels is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

KENNY B: Be quiet!

MIKE W: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a Roundel at you!

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an E23 owner just because some moistened bint had lobbed a Roundel at me, they'd put me away!

KENNY B: Shut up, will you. Shut up!

MIKE W: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! I'm being repressed!

KENNY B: Bloody peasant!

MIKE W: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

I HATE SPAAAAAAAMMMM!!!

Excellent! Wish I could've been present for that.

[garageboy]

Funny... Not to pick on C.R., but I had a similar experience with him earlier this year; he stopped by on his way through the area and had lunch with us, and was great in person. But if he'd said some of the things to my face (or in front of my wife & kids) that he says around here, I would've bodily thrown him out, and maybe poked him in the face first. I think the semi-anonymity of the interwebs brings out a little sociopathy in all of us. When we're face-to-face, we're much less inclined to say something that we know will piss somebody off; much different when it's just me and my little glowing screen.

And then there's Matt.

This is 100% correct. Most people realize that most of my ranting is a combination of sarcasm and sarcasm. But that usually doesn't become clear unless they've met me in person first. Or punched me.

.steve.
sigless bitch (apologies to throwing off the search engine for those searching for "sigless bitches")

[Mike W.]

I never did like Mike. Every time I see him he espouses these leftist radical ideas and it just gets my blood boiling. In fact, I recall this recent conversation with him when I saw him at the last Wrenchfest:

KENNY B: Well, I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Oh E23 owner, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the--

JAY 3: I didn't know we had an E23 owner. I thought we were an auto collective.

MIKE W: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

MIKE W: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting-- By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

JAY 3: Well, how did you become an E23 owner then?

KENNY B: The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft The Roundel from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Kenny B, was to carry The Roundel. [singing stops] That is why I am an E23 owner!

MIKE W: Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing Roundels is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

KENNY B: Be quiet!

MIKE W: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a Roundel at you!

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an E23 owner just because some moistened bint had lobbed a Roundel at me, they'd put me away!

KENNY B: Shut up, will you. Shut up!

MIKE W: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

KENNY B: Shut up!

MIKE W: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! I'm being repressed!

KENNY B: Bloody peasant!

MIKE W: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

I HATE SPAAAAAAAMMMM!!!

[AT8M5]

I thought we're having bacon, when are we having bacon?

Karl

[Kenny Blankenship]

I have been inter acting on the inter net for 12 yrs now. I have always tried to be civil and self effacing in my inter net persona. You get people to open up and share their knowledge and experiences better. The inter net hard guys don't faze me, Ive been insulted by experts, in person. In some circles, cutting to the quick, is a sign of loving kinship.

Andy, if you don't cut it out I'm bringing out the pool picture from Tedfest 2008...