Noob M30B35 Build

[Rav335uk]

Will you be stripping the complete bottom end???

[tig]

Spent the morning cleaning parts...



Have I mentioned how much I hate cosmoline?

It is all over the plastic bits from the donor E32. Such a PITA to clean off.

[tig]

Will you be stripping the complete bottom end???

No. I've mentioned multiple times I do not think I will need to. Once the head is off and I can inspect the cylinder walls the final call will be made. But I'm fairly certain it is fine. I will replace both front & rear main seals.

[Rav335uk]

Measure the front crank seal.
I ordered an ELRING headset, and the bottom crank seal in the set was the wrong size.
I had to reorder a new one, the one in the set was 2mm oversized.

[tig]

Another question:

Bentleys is not clear on how to remove the distributor rotor adapter & dust shield. It shows another motor that does not appear to have the dust shield, and they are taking the 7mm hex key bolt out after the head's been removed.

As far as I can tell I can't get the head off until I remove the timing chain covers and I can't remove those until I remove this bolt (and the crank nut).

Can I just pull this bolt off now?

And it's not a reverse threaded bolt is it? I tried loosening it with a largish hex key and couldn't get it to budge!

As seems to be usual lately, I answered this one myself.

Turns out I have a set of metric hex nut impact wrench bits. (It's 6mm, not 7mm as above, BTW). The impact wrench got this bolt out in a hurry. And for the record, it's not reverse threaded.

[tig]

Got home from work and found that Santa (Amazon) had delivered a gift. I couldn't resist giving it a go. Even without something holding the crank, about 60 seconds with the impact wrench on it's highest setting was all it took to get the "Jesus Nut" off.

"Good living through power tools" is my new life-motto.

[Frybrid 524td]

Everyone should at least try doing the front mail seal and jesus nut without power tools at least once. It really makes you appreciate pneumatic tools.

[tig]

My son & I got the chance to get the head off this evening.






Fun stuff. But why is this screw missing from the oil sprayer bar? That can't be good, can it?

[tig]

[Mark 88/M5 Houston]

With that oil spray bar bolt missing you will want to inspect the cam and rockers very carefully for wear. Did you find the bolt and its sealing washers during the disassembly?

[tig]

With that oil spray bar bolt missing you will want to inspect the cam and rockers very carefully for wear. Did you find the bolt and its sealing washers during the disassembly?

nope. Bolt and washers are awol.

[Mike W.]

Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.

[tig]

Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.

To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.

That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?

Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.

[turbodan]

Drag the edge of your fingernail across the vertical scoring on the cylinder walls. If it catches your fingernail, its a problem. It appears to be just cosmetic, and if you can't feel it with your fingernail its not a major problem. The rust on the cylinder wall is not good, but it may not actually be a serious issue. My last freebie M20 that I threw a turbo on had a similar issue in cylinder #1. The cylinder wall and rings had rusted somewhat but they cleaned themselves up just fine. Engine didn't even use oil.

There is a huge difference between optimal and serviceable. This bottom end appears to be somewhere on the serviceable end of the range, but thats good enough.

[tig]

Drag the edge of your fingernail across the vertical scoring on the cylinder walls. If it catches your fingernail, its a problem. It appears to be just cosmetic, and if you can't feel it with your fingernail its not a major problem. The rust on the cylinder wall is not good, but it may not actually be a serious issue. My last freebie M20 that I threw a turbo on had a similar issue in cylinder #1. The cylinder wall and rings had rusted somewhat but they cleaned themselves up just fine. Engine didn't even use oil.

There is a huge difference between optimal and serviceable. This bottom end appears to be somewhere on the serviceable end of the range, but thats good enough.

Thanks Dan (I assume your name is actually Dan).

I did try the fingernail test last night and in 1-5, except at the very top 1cm, nothing can be felt. However, the top 1cm of all cylinders, especially on the North & South edges have what appears to be corrosion marks/roughness. And the rust spot in #6 can be felt by the fingernail, although it is not drastic.

While your note gives me hope, I'm definitely leaning towards just doing the whole damn thing. When we started this project I had anticipated we'd rebuilt the bottom-end regardless. It was only after we bought the engine and I learned more about things that I realized we might not have to rebuild it.

[tig]

Question on getting the head rebuilt:

I have a range in my head for how much it should cost. I'd like to have a few of you more salty types chime in with what you think a reputable, experienced, shop would charge to take a M30B35 head and rebuild it to factory specs. No special cams or performance tweaks; goal is to make it reliable and smooth.

Thanks.

[turbodan]

The deposits above the top ring in the cylinder bore are normal. You could probably just clean that stuff off if it bothers you. It accumulates there since the rings don't run up that high in the bore so theres nothing to scrape it off. Completely harmless and normal.

The important part of the bore is where the rings ride, and since the factory crosshatching is still visible other than the superficial scoring and rust spots, no significant wear has taken place.

[mooseheadm5]

If you need a block, I've got a couple of bare ones.

[Mike W.]

Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.

To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.

That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?

Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.

Oily combustion chambers indicate oil consumption, that amount probably rings, but since you put something in there that may be the reason. I agree with Dan's comments about the block, servicable and good for another hundred or two hundred thousand miles is not the same as new, it doesn't have to be perfect for near perfect results.

On the head, prices vary by location, and look for the best machine shop, not the cheapest, I've run across more that I didn't like than those I have liked. But if you want it perfect, put on your seat belt, figure $10 each, for valve guides, parts and labor, buck and a half for a good valve job, $50 for a surface, and it will need it, another buck and a half if they break it down and reassemble it, the valves themselves have wear on them, new valves will be $30 a hole or so, rockers are $15 each or so, rocker shafts $25X4 and a cam if needed will be another $300 for a new one. You could easily have a grand or more in the head alone if you're trying to make it perfect. OTTH, reuse the good parts and you might be in for under $500 or so, again, depending on location. And still have a head that's 99% as good as the $1200 one. Anyone can go thru an engine, throw in all new parts and have a good one. It's an acquired skill and an art to go thru, replacing only what's needed and end up with just as good for a quarter to a third the cost, but entierly doable.

[tig]

Those combustion chambers look awfully oily from here, they should be powder dry, especially the exhaust valves. That more than the scoring would make me concerned.

To try to minimize rusting, knowing the injectors had been removed, I sprayed quite a bit of Gibbs in through the top of the head, intake, exhaust, and injector ports before dis-assembly. Given the motor was turned over manually it's entirely likely that some of that got pulled in.

That said, I'd like to understand your concern more specifically. What do oily combustion chambers indicate?

Note that the plan all along was to have the head totally rebuilt by a pro. I want it tits perfect. So my quest for knowledge is just that.

Oily combustion chambers indicate oil consumption, that amount probably rings, but since you put something in there that may be the reason. I agree with Dan's comments about the block, servicable and good for another hundred or two hundred thousand miles is not the same as new, it doesn't have to be perfect for near perfect results.

On the head, prices vary by location, and look for the best machine shop, not the cheapest, I've run across more that I didn't like than those I have liked. But if you want it perfect, put on your seat belt, figure $10 each, for valve guides, parts and labor, buck and a half for a good valve job, $50 for a surface, and it will need it, another buck and a half if they break it down and reassemble it, the valves themselves have wear on them, new valves will be $30 a hole or so, rockers are $15 each or so, rocker shafts $25X4 and a cam if needed will be another $300 for a new one. You could easily have a grand or more in the head alone if you're trying to make it perfect. OTTH, reuse the good parts and you might be in for under $500 or so, again, depending on location. And still have a head that's 99% as good as the $1200 one. Anyone can go thru an engine, throw in all new parts and have a good one. It's an acquired skill and an art to go thru, replacing only what's needed and end up with just as good for a quarter to a third the cost, but entirely doable.

Excellent info. Thanks.

The guy I'm planning on using (Chuck at C&D Performance, Kirkland, WA) comes highly recommended by the E30/Pro-3 guys up here. I've spoken with him on the phone and he's given me a range that I'm very comfortable with and is inline with your numbers. Of course we won't know for sure until all parts are inspected.

[Kyle in NO]

Just do the bottom end. Why would you pull a nice engine from your car only to install a shittier one? My B34 bottom end that I installed in my turbo 533i years ago had corrosion in the cylinders just like yours. I just scuffed it up and let it roll. Works fine. Doesn't smoke. Doesn't use oil. 14psi of boost no problem. I still hate knowing its condition, and if I had the money at the time I would have done it right.

I have another B35 sitting here that will get done the RIGHT way pretty soon. Then I will be happy. Maybe.

[tig]

Score!

Was at Harbor Freight picking up Soda blasting media for the soda blaster I ordered via Amazon (that I thought would be here today). Noticed they had a blast cabinet sitting by the front door.

Asked the sales guy "That for sale?" He said "Yes, it's a display model. Missing some parts. Make me an offer. Normally $209, the tag currently says $105."

I checked on the price for a new set of gloves and the other missing parts. It'll cost me ~$50, but I won't need them for soda blasting.

I offered $55. He said he had to add a penny, so it was $55.01.

Already assembled too!

Every gearhead should have a blast cabinet!

[ldsbeaker]

You are moving a little faster than me, but we are doing the same things. Send me an email: ldsbeaker@gmail.com

[leadphut]

Score!

I have the exact cabinet and it works perfect.

Great thread cek. Subscribed!

I vote doing the bottom end as Kyle suggested. It would be consistent with your level of detail.

[Rav335uk]

Good buy on the media blaster.