Now honestly, would a semi-custom turbo setup using the TCD exhaust manifold and motronic engine management running about 10psi be realistically "easy" to build? And just as important, would it be cheaper to build than a hot NA version of the same motor? This is a hard choice, I want to go faster without spending $4000 on the motor alone.
That sounds like Im a cheap skate and I don't know what I'm talking about... I really just want someone to talk me into taking the turbo plunge.
And also, before someone burns me alive for being ignorant, I know there are numerous other parts and details to building a turbo system than the two that I mentioned, and I also realize that going fast is as much a function of good suspension and driving as it is a fire breathing power plant. I bought Corky Bells book a couple years ago
Alright, I can't make up my mind.
As we say also,
cheap, fast, reliable, you can only have two of three..
You still need to figure out what you want. Pcs'ing together a M106 stuff may be the cheapest way to go for only 10psi. The 059 is completely scalable in many ways to 1000hp.
If you pcs together other parts, you will have to fabricate stuff, can you do that? Do you have the time to spend 100hrs on this project or is "ghetto" OK?
RussC
cheap, fast, reliable, you can only have two of three..
You still need to figure out what you want. Pcs'ing together a M106 stuff may be the cheapest way to go for only 10psi. The 059 is completely scalable in many ways to 1000hp.
If you pcs together other parts, you will have to fabricate stuff, can you do that? Do you have the time to spend 100hrs on this project or is "ghetto" OK?
RussC
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- Posts: 1558
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
- Location: UK
Duke's advice is good. I have a 3.5 with mild mods in my car now -- 10:1 pistons, Schrick 282 with Schrick springs, chipped Motronic. It's only a little stronger than a stock Euro engine. I have the receipts from the PO for that build, it was upwards of $4k The engine started life as a 3.3, so the machine work was a larger part of the bill than normal.
There is a lower threshhold for any kind of engine work; just the basics of bearings, rings, gaskets, valve seals, water pump etc. will get you to $500 or so. The cost ramp for building serious NA power is steep from there. Look at the prices from Metric Mechanic and Korman.
I'm doing what Duke suggested for my first turbo. I found a wrecked 745i cheap, sold off everything I could and was left with the M106 and all the turbo goodies for approximately free. As of now the budget is looking like about another $2k to have it in the car and running. Some of that is things like a nice Spec clutch, and of course the aforementioned $500 of basic rebuild parts. Some of it is things that would cost less with a TDC manifold -- like a modified stock BMW wastegate, because mine is too far gone to save. If I could use a stock TiAL or the like, I'd only have to spend $250 instead of $500.
If I had a stock 3.5 instead of the 10:1 engine, I would just drop on the Turbo head and save the cost of the bottom end rebuild. It's too bad, because my NA engine only has about 20k on it. Oh well, guess I'll have to stick it in my e9..
Regardless, I'm getting a bargain. I plan to run conservative at around 12psi, and will hopefully see almost 300whp. I'm realistic about the capability of the BMW turbo gear. I know Duke is not losing any sleep, but for the first project, it will be a nice kick in the backside and a good way to learn.
Besides, I'm waiting for Sweeney to perfect the twin turbo setup...
There is a lower threshhold for any kind of engine work; just the basics of bearings, rings, gaskets, valve seals, water pump etc. will get you to $500 or so. The cost ramp for building serious NA power is steep from there. Look at the prices from Metric Mechanic and Korman.
I'm doing what Duke suggested for my first turbo. I found a wrecked 745i cheap, sold off everything I could and was left with the M106 and all the turbo goodies for approximately free. As of now the budget is looking like about another $2k to have it in the car and running. Some of that is things like a nice Spec clutch, and of course the aforementioned $500 of basic rebuild parts. Some of it is things that would cost less with a TDC manifold -- like a modified stock BMW wastegate, because mine is too far gone to save. If I could use a stock TiAL or the like, I'd only have to spend $250 instead of $500.
If I had a stock 3.5 instead of the 10:1 engine, I would just drop on the Turbo head and save the cost of the bottom end rebuild. It's too bad, because my NA engine only has about 20k on it. Oh well, guess I'll have to stick it in my e9..
Regardless, I'm getting a bargain. I plan to run conservative at around 12psi, and will hopefully see almost 300whp. I'm realistic about the capability of the BMW turbo gear. I know Duke is not losing any sleep, but for the first project, it will be a nice kick in the backside and a good way to learn.
Besides, I'm waiting for Sweeney to perfect the twin turbo setup...
That is encouraging! Do you think 300whp is realistic for 12psi and a TCD manifold? I know it's not all about the numbers, and really it's not even all about the hp number... we all know the turbo M30 makes huge torque 8)
I should be getting started on the bottom end this week if I decide to go the turbo route, and just like I suspected, it should be cheaper than building a high hp NA motor...
I should be getting started on the bottom end this week if I decide to go the turbo route, and just like I suspected, it should be cheaper than building a high hp NA motor...
OK,EuroShark wrote:Sweet, so would you recommend the Motronic out of a 745i, or a Motronic setup out of a later model car like 1985 and newer? Are there chips available to help them work better with the turbo, or do they do well on their own?
I wouldn't use the M106 ECU. Some do. But if you go the 059, then you need to use its harness also.
With that, check my website. If you don't want to DIY, then TCD will sell you FI software(chips). For 12psi, you don't have to go custom programming, FMU w/AFM adjustments will work fine
Search this forum, all this stuff has been covered.
RussC