M30B35 Blind Turbo Build

[m30b35e3]

First off, I’m not blind my vision/path on this project is. I knew I wanted to turbo this motor, but where to begin?

I started like any other enthusiast googling the builds of others. I quickly hit a wall watching people throw money at their builds in hopes to make wild, unrealistic expectations. I’m not that guy. I started asking around and found a tubular m30 t4 manifold, and a holset hx40. Here’s where it gets fun. I’m shooting for low boost, that rolls on after 3k.

My parts:
M30b35 w/b34 pistons
ARP Head studs
Rapid spool t4 manifold
Hx40w turbo (8 blade)
Tial WG
Tial BOV
30# 4 pintle injectors

What I plan to buy:
2.5” charge piping
IC of some shape or size
MS2pnp for m20/30

My theory is with this big of an efficient turbo, I’ll get the spooling I need after the beefy TQ curve these motors have. How crazy am I? Any help is appreciated, I’d like to try to ballpark horsepower numbers but don’t even know where to start. All of the online calculators are asking for info I don’t have and don’t know where to find!

[T_C_D]

B35 + B34 pistons = 7.4CR

7.4CR + tubular manifold + HX40 =

The saving grace of the M30 is it's fat torque curve. That's what makes the m30 accelerate a car so well. Your proposed setup will miss out on that and result in a horribly laggy and thus poorly performing car.

If you insist on the wrong sized turbo, at least stay with the B35 pistons to help spool it.

[m30b35e3]

Thanks for the reply TDC, big fan. Is that a two out of 5 ? I kid, I don’t insist on using anything, it’s just what’s been available to me. Pistons are installed, the super duper expensive con rod bolts used. When you say “laggy and poor performing”, is that because the boost will come on late? My counter to the late boost is the smaller charge piping, but I don’t mind late boost because it’ll keep me out of trouble. I say late, not missed the bus late.

[m30b35e3]

I just got my rebuild kit in the mail and tore into my hx40, only to find (then cause) some damage. One of the journal bearing housings has a scratch my dental pick can feel, I couldn’t get the collar on the shaft into the bearing housing so I used force and damaged the shaft/collar. I knew it was a bad idea to work on it late at night! This is my first turbo experience, so I don’t really know what damage is acceptable. For example, the damage on the turbine housing, there are nicks in the metal where it looks like the turbine ate something small. I’ll let it sit for the day and research.

[Shadow]

My counter to the late boost is the smaller charge piping, but I don’t mind late boost because it’ll keep me out of trouble. I say late, not missed the bus late.

hey just a reality check.
smaller boost pipes does not mean quicker spool this isn't grand turismo on play station.

So looks like what we got here is this is all i could afford setup don't try to make it out like all this stuff is on purpose.
super low compression and an hx40 for "low boost" come on.

it's going to be laggy which is good
as far as keeping driveline stuff alive
but not fun on low boost.

mine made over 500tq at 3k, but on a b35
then drops 40 after that so yeah
you're going to need crank it up the more it lags
because as you know m30s are dogs up top.
where the turbo is just starting light up btw.

You can really have a faster car with way less boost
and a smaller turbo, all down low too.

everything is set in stone from the start
but just think about it
maybe the hx40 is going to force you to get it out from "low boost" which is fine.
i recommend at least 18psi minimum on that turbo. maybe close to 500hp.
just to be fun.

[m30b35e3]

My counter to the late boost is the smaller charge piping, but I don’t mind late boost because it’ll keep me out of trouble. I say late, not missed the bus late.

hey just a reality check.
smaller boost pipes does not mean quicker spool this isn't grand turismo on play station.

So looks like what we got here is this is all i could afford setup don't try to make it out like all this stuff is on purpose.
super low compression and an hx40 for "low boost" come on.

it's going to be laggy which is good
as far as keeping driveline stuff alive
but not fun on low boost.

mine made over 500tq at 3k, but on a b35
then drops 40 after that so yeah
you're going to need crank it up the more it lags
because as you know m30s are dogs up top.
where the turbo is just starting light up btw.

You can really have a faster car with way less boost
and a smaller turbo, all down low too.

everything is set in stone from the start
but just think about it
maybe the hx40 is going to force you to get it out from "low boost" which is fine.
i recommend at least 18psi minimum on that turbo. maybe close to 500hp.
just to be fun.

First off, thanks for your response, info is always appreciated.
That being said, keep your opinion to yourself, Gran Turismo. I don’t care. Smaller charge piping will pressurize faster.
What hx40 are you running?
I doubt you read my last post about the bearing cartridge being/getting damaged.
Nothing is ever set in stone. So, let’s say I get this hx40 up and running, what’s the worst that happens, I get late boost and the car isn’t as responsive as it could be. Oh no, end of the world right?
I can always spend a few hundred more dollars on con rod bolts and swap back to b35 pistons OR find a smaller t4 based turbo. This is a learning experience.

[Shadow]

i'll keep giving you my opinions as longs as you keep posting on here.
my opinion is you are butt hurt.

[m30b35e3]

i'll keep giving you my opinions as longs as you keep posting on here.
my opinion is you are butt hurt.

Again, I couldn't care less. I sent this link thread to a few of my friends and they all laughed at how ridged the forum people are. I must not be expressing myself well enough to get through. Live and learn.

I’m going to buy a super 40 turbine, I’m hoping to have the cartridge buttoned up this week.

[tschultz]

Your post did indeed come off as justification as to your turbo parts selection. Then you asked for thoughts, so it seems Shadow gave some to you...

But if your goals are low boost and moderate power, it would seem that a bigger turbo might really be what you are after. Additionally, a log manifold might be better than tubular for low boost setups (better heat retention, better packaging, similar output with low boost). Low compression engines aren't really set up well for low boost either, both in response and overall power... so your goals don't align with the parts you have, and that is what Shadow was calling out.


It seems silly to go through the bottom end and spend all that effort and then to pick a used turbo that isn't sized properly just because you have it. It will be time better spent if you go through the sizing procedure or get a unit already sized by somebody reputable like TCD.

Piping size will have such a minimal effect on performance that it isn't something to offset proper turbo selection. It won't affect boost response like you are thinking, but rather will limit power due to pressure loss through bends and such.

You didn't ask a direct question so you didn't get a direct answer.

How crazy am I? Any help is appreciated, I’d like to try to ballpark horsepower numbers but don’t even know where to start.

A good place to start would be looking at TCD's website with M30 power numbers. What boost level are you going for? What compression ratio? It you are doing the low compression variant, you will have a similar motor as the M102 which put out 252hp at 10psi. If you go to MS2, what octane do you plan to run? What boost level? A good low boost setup should be 300hp... but as we all know, it comes down to drivability.

If you want more feedback, share with us a bit more detail and we can provide some considerations. I'm not sure what you were trying to share with us about rebuilding the turbo, but it sounds like you would again be better off buying a new unit as you don't have to worry about damaging the compressor or seals since it won't have to be disassembled.

[russc]

Um,
I dont think thats right, the M102 only makes ~6-7psi if I remember correctly, thats way the power is only rated 252hp! But Ill have to check again.
Edit, your right, M102 was .7bar, but was only 7:1 compression, 3.2l, the M106 was .4bar and 8:1comp, 3.4l. But configurations put out the same power level.. why is mystery.

RussC

It you are doing the low compression variant, you will have a similar motor as the M102 which put out 252hp at 10psi. If you go to MS2, what octane do you plan to run? What boost level? A good low boost setup should be 300hp... but as we all know, it comes down to drivability.

[mitch5]

My suggestion having gone down this route
ditch the low compression and run a stock b35, tuning and avoiding detonation should be no issue with megasquirt
replace the stock 2 pump fuel system with a single walbro
get 80# deka injectors, your going to run out of injector quick with the #30
get a bosch bypass valve off a porsche they are $20
use a three inch downpipe
holset turbos are very easy to rebuild, there is a factory repair manual that should outline everything. Hopefully you indexed the shaft with the compressor wheel.

If you post pictures of the noticeable damage then you could probably get some good input.

[m30b35e3]

Your post did indeed come off as justification as to your turbo parts selection. Then you asked for thoughts, so it seems Shadow gave some to you...

But if your goals are low boost and moderate power, it would seem that a bigger turbo might really be what you are after. Additionally, a log manifold might be better than tubular for low boost setups (better heat retention, better packaging, similar output with low boost). Low compression engines aren't really set up well for low boost either, both in response and overall power... so your goals don't align with the parts you have, and that is what Shadow was calling out.


It seems silly to go through the bottom end and spend all that effort and then to pick a used turbo that isn't sized properly just because you have it. It will be time better spent if you go through the sizing procedure or get a unit already sized by somebody reputable like TCD.

Piping size will have such a minimal effect on performance that it isn't something to offset proper turbo selection. It won't affect boost response like you are thinking, but rather will limit power due to pressure loss through bends and such.

You didn't ask a direct question so you didn't get a direct answer.

How crazy am I? Any help is appreciated, I’d like to try to ballpark horsepower numbers but don’t even know where to start.

A good place to start would be looking at TCD's website with M30 power numbers. What boost level are you going for? What compression ratio? It you are doing the low compression variant, you will have a similar motor as the M102 which put out 252hp at 10psi. If you go to MS2, what octane do you plan to run? What boost level? A good low boost setup should be 300hp... but as we all know, it comes down to drivability.

If you want more feedback, share with us a bit more detail and we can provide some considerations. I'm not sure what you were trying to share with us about rebuilding the turbo, but it sounds like you would again be better off buying a new unit as you don't have to worry about damaging the compressor or seals since it won't have to be disassembled.

If my post came across as a justification, you’re taking it too seriously. This is a hobby for me, not a life or death situation, nor a nut swinging competition.

There’s a ton of things to address, so here’s my attempt to try on my phone:

The hx40 will stay, with a super 40 cartridge. Boost will be contingent on what my injectors will handle. Seeing as they are small and the turbo is not, they’ll be one of the first things changed.
I’ll end up running more boost and keeping the bottom end lower compression.
What details would you like to know to about my build? The details about rebuilding/ damaged housing meant the turbo selection was changing, referring to how ridged my build is
Going ms2, I’ll run 92 octane, as that’s what’s available. I also have access to clear gas and 110 octane so multiple maps may happen in the colder months.

[m30b35e3]

My suggestion having gone down this route
ditch the low compression and run a stock b35, tuning and avoiding detonation should be no issue with megasquirt
replace the stock 2 pump fuel system with a single walbro
get 80# deka injectors, your going to run out of injector quick with the #30
get a bosch bypass valve off a porsche they are $20
use a three inch downpipe
holset turbos are very easy to rebuild, there is a factory repair manual that should outline everything. Hopefully you indexed the shaft with the compressor wheel.

If you post pictures of the noticeable damage then you could probably get some good input.

Ordering 80# deka ev1 injectors today, seems eBay is the best price @$110 for 8.
What Porsche Bosch bypass valve is it?

[Nebraska_e28]

i'll keep giving you my opinions as longs as you keep posting on here.
my opinion is you are butt hurt.

Again, I couldn't care less. I sent this link thread to a few of my friends and they all laughed at how ridged the forum people are. I must not be expressing myself well enough to get through. Live and learn.

I’m going to buy a super 40 turbine, I’m hoping to have the cartridge buttoned up this week.

It's your car, feel free to do as you please. We all do the same. As far as opinions, you asked so there will be a wide range accept it. Some you'll appreciate & some not so much. Some may seem 'rigid' rather than 'ridged' as you stated. This is due to many of us with the BTDT philosophy & advising you on this basis. Absorb the opinions as well as doing additional research & you'll go far.

[mitch5]

My suggestion having gone down this route
ditch the low compression and run a stock b35, tuning and avoiding detonation should be no issue with megasquirt
replace the stock 2 pump fuel system with a single walbro
get 80# deka injectors, your going to run out of injector quick with the #30
get a bosch bypass valve off a porsche they are $20
use a three inch downpipe
holset turbos are very easy to rebuild, there is a factory repair manual that should outline everything. Hopefully you indexed the shaft with the compressor wheel.

If you post pictures of the noticeable damage then you could probably get some good input.

Ordering 80# deka ev1 injectors today, seems eBay is the best price @$110 for 8.
What Porsche Bosch bypass valve is it?

110 is way to cheap, those are knockoffs, your best off buying from an actual vendor, i believe i paid around 280. If you go to ls1tech, you can find used injectors for 200.

here is what i put on my car, pretty sure i bought used. Same type is used on audis
https://www.ebay.com/p/Bosch-0-280-142- ... 1637461737

[Shadow]

http://deatschwerks.rpmware.com/deatsch ... 32445.aspx

these are better/newer and only $100 more.
read up on them they are the shit.

[m30b35e3]

My suggestion having gone down this route
ditch the low compression and run a stock b35, tuning and avoiding detonation should be no issue with megasquirt
replace the stock 2 pump fuel system with a single walbro
get 80# deka injectors, your going to run out of injector quick with the #30
get a bosch bypass valve off a porsche they are $20
use a three inch downpipe
holset turbos are very easy to rebuild, there is a factory repair manual that should outline everything. Hopefully you indexed the shaft with the compressor wheel.

If you post pictures of the noticeable damage then you could probably get some good input.

Ordering 80# deka ev1 injectors today, seems eBay is the best price @$110 for 8.
What Porsche Bosch bypass valve is it?

110 is way to cheap, those are knockoffs, your best off buying from an actual vendor, i believe i paid around 280. If you go to ls1tech, you can find used injectors for 200.

here is what i put on my car, pretty sure i bought used. Same type is used on audis
https://www.ebay.com/p/Bosch-0-280-142- ... 1637461737

Totally right about those injectors! I read the title carefully and saw the scam. I’ve got some time, knowing what injectors really cost!

Is that bypass valve just a check valve for the PCV? I’m guessing this is so you don’t have to run a catch can?

[m30b35e3]

http://deatschwerks.rpmware.com/deatsch ... 32445.aspx

these are better/newer and only $100 more.
read up on them they are the shit.

Will do!

[e38740imd]

so what happened to this build