Off-topic: family income / cost of living in the US

[RobertRO]

I am currently considering to relocate to the US.
As of now, it is just an intention, and I am struggling to find out all the pros and cons of it, before reaching a final decision.
To put it very short, my plan is to buy an established business. Having a family, I only consider moving to states (or, better said, parts of states / neighborhoods) that are very safe, have great public schools, and preferable a mild climate. I know, usually this also means expensive.

I found it very difficult to get, from the people I know, sincere and realistic information on the subject of cost of living. I am well aware that this is, often, a very private piece of information. People are reluctant to disclose how much they earn, or the quality of life they can afford for a certain income.
Could be that strangers may provide better and free of bias information.

Consequently, I would highly appreciate your input on this topic. How much (before taxes) would a familiy of 3 need to earn in the US, in order to have a good life. By "good life" I understand a level above "decent", but below "luxury". The kind of income that would allow the family to save 20%, while affording a comfortable and safe place to live in, healthy food, great education, good healthcare, traveling, holidays, a couple of not so expensive hobbies...
Thank you.

[Blue Shadow]

Cost of living in the US varies by a large amount depending on where you live. The metropolitan megalopolis' along the east and west coast can be expensive. Not so much in the middle of the country. Difference can be a doubling of your income needed for some areas compared to others.

How much snow do you consider part of a mild climate? Could set a northern border to where you might want to look.

[stuartinmn]

There are various cost of living websites out there, where you can compare different cities or areas of the country. I don't know how accurate any of them are, but they should at least give you an idea. Most of the ones I found were for the US only but this one is world wide, so it may be more useful for your purposes. https://www.erieri.com/cost-of-living/browse/cities

[Mike W.]

An extremely difficult question aside from the privacy aspect, but I'll throw a few things out there.

Location as has been mentioned is a large factor, although much more on housing than the rest. And not surprisingly what most consider the most desirable areas are the highest priced. The 20% savings obviously drives it up quite a bit. But given your requirements I'll say $250-275K in most coastal states, but I'm not referring to a actual coast view in the least, just the state, and perhaps $200-225K in more inland areas, many of which have cold winters. There's some bargain areas, but to live well, but not extravagantly isn't cheap here IMO.

[RobertRO]

How much snow do you consider part of a mild climate? Could set a northern border to where you might want to look.

My first line of preference would be North/East VA, CT, NJ, South NY.
Then comes MA, and maybe NH (+ safety & schools, - climate). Possibly CA (+ climate, - schools), too.
But if there are other good ones that I missed, please mention them.

[cbumga11]

Personal preference, North Carolina is a great state to be in. Depending on what your back ground is, the middle of the state has fantastic schools, the research triangle park (if I.T is your thing), 3 hr drive to the coast, 3 hr drive to the Mountains (The Blue Ridge Parkway is one of the best drives/views in the nation IMO, just over look the 35mph speed limit). Charlotte has a lot to offer, but is growing exponentially. I'm in Missouri now, and I advise you stay far, far away from here although its has a great cost of living. As long as you choose a suburb outside of the metro areas of these towns, 200k should be fine. My hometown in Western NC, I know you could easily get by with an upper middle class life for about 125k. We have 4 seasons, enough snow to enjoy it but its gone after 3-4 days, summer is a full 4 months and fall/spring is stunning. You mentioned VA, which i agree is nice, but the closer you get to DC the prices skyrocket.

[Blue Shadow]

A discussion that gets a little wide of target but talks about California and Tennessee, East Tennessee really on another forum you can read while you wait for more info.

I liked that thread because I spent a number of years in TN before a handful of years in GA and then a few in CA. Now in the northeast. Seems many of the areas you have on your list. The info in the thread seemed pretty good while it was information.

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index ... ee.972547/

[Mike W.]

Sounds like you're more interested in more urban areas, which is fine, and while I wouldn't want to live there, it seems most people who live in NY love it. Same with San Francisco, I avoid it like the plague but those who live there absolutely love it. My own personal bias is west of the Rockies, not everywhere, but I really wouldn't want to live east of there. The upper midwest, Minnesota/Wisconsin seems to get good reviews and you might want to consider them, although they do have pretty severe winters. But most places have good and bad areas, my Dad lived in Bakersfield California for a decade and really liked it. Very nice neighborhood, ok weather, low for Calif, cost of living, but it's usually reviled even by those who live there, but he managed to hit the "just right" spot, not that I'm suggesting it, and trust me I'm not.

If at all possible you really should pay a visit and see what you think of the different areas. Again, referring to my Dad, he could make friends pretty much anywhere and be happy there. I'm a bit more reserved and opinionated so that doesn't apply to me, and I of course don't know your personality.

[kojo96]

I'd look at another country that can offer a better quality of life overall. This country is changing rapidly (depending on who you talk to, the opinions vary GREATLY!)

[demetk]

Considering you're from Romania which endured a despot for many years, I would have thought political stability would be at the top of your priorities list. This country would not be on my top 10 list of countries to safely raise a family in.

[RobertRO]

Thank you very much, all the feedback is very useful.

[Adam W in MN]

20-25 years ago I would have said $125-150k in annual income was a very very comfortable living. Now? Whoah, all your requirements.... I would say a red state with low taxes and $150k minimum household income should be your target. Not MN where I live.

This US real estate market is insane, job market is also insane, inflation is banging on our door.... it goes on and on.

[marek]

The biggest single factor is cost of housing, followed by healthcare (if you don't have an employer sponsored or at least partially covered health plan). If you have enough to pay cash for a house or have a mortgage below $500k with healthcare from an employer then even in SoCal, $150k (no mortgage, employer covered healthcare) - $225k (mortgage of $500k and you pay 100% of health insurance)/yr will get you what you are looking for.

[Kenny Blankenship]

I am currently considering to relocate to the US.
As of now, it is just an intention, and I am struggling to find out all the pros and cons of it, before reaching a final decision.
To put it very short, my plan is to buy an established business. Having a family, I only consider moving to states (or, better said, parts of states / neighborhoods) that are very safe, have great public schools, and preferable a mild climate. I know, usually this also means expensive.

I found it very difficult to get, from the people I know, sincere and realistic information on the subject of cost of living. I am well aware that this is, often, a very private piece of information. People are reluctant to disclose how much they earn, or the quality of life they can afford for a certain income.
Could be that strangers may provide better and free of bias information.

Consequently, I would highly appreciate your input on this topic. How much (before taxes) would a familiy of 3 need to earn in the US, in order to have a good life. By "good life" I understand a level above "decent", but below "luxury". The kind of income that would allow the family to save 20%, while affording a comfortable and safe place to live in, healthy food, great education, good healthcare, traveling, holidays, a couple of not so expensive hobbies...
Thank you.

What is your life like now and why are you coming here? More opportunity? More freedom? Higher quality of life? What's a decent life in Romania and what are your expectations here? You don't make these decisions lightly so what are your reasons?

You can't just ask about the "cost of living" and not connect it with income. It is entirely possible to live in the US with a salary under $100k and have a good life. You don't need a fancy car, the latest TV, the latest phone, etc. Do you want a house with a big yard? A condominium or townhouse OK? You don't have to live in a major metropolitan city. Everyone wants what you ask for.

If you expect to make $200k+ per year, you can live pretty much anywhere (well San Francisco and New York City might be tougher).

What type of business do you plan to buy? A fast food or some other sort of franchise?

I'd take with a grain of salt some of the naysayers here. Yes, there seems to be a little political upheaval, but I'm willing to bet not many (if any) have lived in Romania in the 1980s, or a Communist/Socialist country. I had grandparents that lived in basically a loft over their small business. If things were that bad here, people would be moving out of the country, but that doesn't seem to happen much... First world problems...

One piece of advice I would give you is to either live close to where you work or work remotely. The other is to put down a decent down payment if you plan to buy a piece of property. There is ALWAYS opportunity in the US. Just depends how hard you're willing to work to find it.

By the way, I want to see a picture of that '94 730i. I've always thought a Motronic 1.3 M30b30 would be a great engine in an E12 or E23...

[RobertRO]

Allow me to first answer your BMW related questions.
At the link below you may find a picture of my E32. For reasons that have probably to do with my age, I rarely take pictures. Not only of my car, but of my family, too. That's something that my wife is not keen about...
http://82.78.8.129/mye28/pics/e32/E32_March2021.jpg
The Motronic 1.3 M30B30 engine is smooth and reliable, but I wouldn't recommend it on any car heavier than an E12. The M30B35 is clearly superior in any aspect.
That E32 is my playing and testing car. I drive it only from March to October, and almost every year I change something in its configuration.
First, I swapped an M30B35.
Then, I didn't really like the low end torque. So I installed an M30B30 head shaved 0.3mm and B30 intake manifold on the M30B35 bottom end. That's actually a great setup for street, and retrospectively the best M30 combo of all that I've tested, bar the Euro M30B34 of my former E28. Compared to the stock B35, you lose a bit on the top, but gain a lot on low end and mid range. And it runs just fine with a stock or chipped Motronic 1.3 179.
Then I experimented, for a couple of years, a Megasquirt (actually custom built Microsquirt module based) ECU.
Recently, I've swaped back the B35 head with a dBilas 276 deg. camshaft and custom Motronic 1.3 chip. It runs wonderful above 4000rpm, but - expectedly - it lost a good deal of torque between 2800-3800 rpm.
I like a lot the E32 platform. It is a pity that it never came from factory with either M70B50 or M60B40 and a manual gearbox.

Now, about my plan to move to US.
Thank you for your advice.
My reason is to offer better opportunities for my family, and particularly a better education for my daughter.
I am looking to buy an US company whose operation involve technology, at least to some extent. Could be manufacturing, automotive services, electrical services. I am not interested in retail or food.
It's not a simple endeavor, as a lot of factors have to line up at about the same time.

[Sparkeysf]

Isn't Romania now a full EU member? I know if I had the choice of living anywhere in the EU without the hassle of applying for residency and obtaining work visas there's a lot of other places I'd look into before considering the US.

[RobertRO]

Well, this may lead to a very long discussion...
To briefly answer your question: yes, Romania is in the EU. And yes, any EU citizen may move to any other EU country.

Unfortunately, there are some major flaws in the very fundation of the EU.
First, the EU is a sum of countries that clinch on their sovereignty. It's like a marriage, but one made of 27 selfish spouses. Brexit proved it, recently. Sometime in the '70ies, Henry Kissinger allegedly said: "Who do I call if I want to call Europe?" About half of century later, this is still so much true.
Second, there are latent historical animosities between various EU nations. Some of them may have tamed down. But, generally speaking, it only takes a spark to turn them on again.
Third, the language barrier. EU lacks a "lingua franca". Any communication wthin EU must be translated in all those 23 official languages. If one moves to another EU country, then learning (or even mastering) the local language is a must. Otherwise, the opportunities are drastically limited. If one is in his/her 20ies, that's easy. But if that person is older, then he/she has a problem.
And the list of issues may go on: 19 EU countries use the Euro currency, but other 8 have their own currency. 23 EU countries are in the Schengen Area (free and unrestricted movement of people), but 4 are not...

In this setup, it is hard to say if EU has a bright future. Or even a future.

[Kenny Blankenship]

The Motronic 1.3 M30B30 engine is smooth and reliable, but I wouldn't recommend it on any car heavier than an E12. The M30B35 is clearly superior in any aspect.
That E32 is my playing and testing car. I drive it only from March to October, and almost every year I change something in its configuration.
First, I swapped an M30B35.
Then, I didn't really like the low end torque. So I installed an M30B30 head shaved 0.3mm and B30 intake manifold on the M30B35 bottom end. That's actually a great setup for street, and retrospectively the best M30 combo of all that I've tested, bar the Euro M30B34 of my former E28. Compared to the stock B35, you lose a bit on the top, but gain a lot on low end and mid range. And it runs just fine with a stock or chipped Motronic 1.3 179.
Then I experimented, for a couple of years, a Megasquirt (actually custom built Microsquirt module based) ECU.
Recently, I've swaped back the B35 head with a dBilas 276 deg. camshaft and custom Motronic 1.3 chip. It runs wonderful above 4000rpm, but - expectedly - it lost a good deal of torque between 2800-3800 rpm.
I like a lot the E32 platform. It is a pity that it never came from factory with either M70B50 or M60B40 and a manual gearbox.

Now, about my plan to move to US.
Thank you for your advice.
My reason is to offer better opportunities for my family, and particularly a better education for my daughter.
I am looking to buy an US company whose operation involve technology, at least to some extent. Could be manufacturing, automotive services, electrical services. I am not interested in retail or food.
It's not a simple endeavor, as a lot of factors have to line up at about the same time.

I like the way you think. I like the idea of an M30b30 (anything generally with a stroke of 84mm or less) because they seem to run so smooooooth. But I also like the way you built an engine for torque...I can't think of anybody who took the approach you did. It is refreshing and certainly an interesting setup that I wouldn't mind trying out. Putting that in a 5 series and running stock gearing (5 speed and 3.25 or maybe even 3.07) makes me wonder what kind of gas mileage could be achieved.

What is the difference between an M30b30 head and the M30b35? Not the same? I'm assuming the M30b30 intake has smaller diameter runners...

It's interesting you have a 1994 M30 engined E32. I've tried to look up what 7 series cars had the Motronic 1.3 M30b30 and from what I've seen the last year was 1992.

Back to important things...certainly the US is full of opportunities despite all the noise. When you talk to people here, you get a lot of "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality. There's a segment that thinks the Nordic countries are the bee's knees (think Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, etc...) but I don't necessarily think it's any better, just different.

The thing about the US is that there is so much freedom (relatively speaking) that people can lose some sense of discipline, some moral compass, some sense of accountability and responsibility. Some take advantage of our freedom (see China, Russia). You occasionally get people who go off the rails. The US places an strong emphasis on individuality perhaps at the expense of family.

I think your assessment of European Union in general is spot on. Most of those countries just kind of "exist". They don't really go anywhere...don't progress. Not as good an environment for innovation. The exception is probably Germany.

[stuartinmn]

I think buying an existing business may be tricky, particularly by someone coming from another country. There are business brokers around the country:

A business broker is an individual or company that assists mainly in the purchase and sale of small, main street businesses. Their tasks include helping companies to secure a favorable price, submit paperwork correctly and fulfill any licensing and permitting requirements https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bu ... broker.asp

Once you have an idea of what parts of the US you're interested in, you may want to research the brokers in those areas.

[RobertRO]

I think buying an existing business may be tricky, particularly by someone coming from another country. There are business brokers around the country[...]

Stuart, you are absolutely right, and that's the approach I am currently taking. I am in contact with several business brokers from US. It's much better than just sniffing around for opportunities. However, there's still some degree of "trickiness": the broker is not a neutral party, but actually an agent of the seller. He get paid by the seller, and ultimately his main target is to close the deal. Whether it's a win-win situation or not, that's the buyer's call. And risk.

What is the difference between an M30b30 head and the M30b35? Not the same? I'm assuming the M30b30 intake has smaller diameter runners...

Back in 2018 I have briefly reported about my B35/B30 hybrid engine here on my e28. It may answer some of your questions:
https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=148202
And, to quote a Sweedish guy (nickname: "McRae") on bimmerforums: the M30B30 head casting 497 "has the best channels out of the box of all m30 heads IMO".

[Tammer in Philly]

Not sure if it's helpful, but a friend's wife is both from Romania and is a partner in a financial planning business. She has a pretty strong network of Romanians in the Detroit area. Happy to connect you; PM me.

Re. your requirements, the places you listed are all over the map. Like others, I see the breakdowns as a little different.

Here are a set of criteria to consider:
- Size of the city you live in? There are basically three tiers: mega-urban (NY/NJ, Philly/Baltimore/DC, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Miami, Seattle, SF, LA, SD, and a few other cities that are nearly as big but less congested because of where they are (e.g. Denver, Minneapolis, Phoenix); mid-urban (Kansas City, Indianapolis, Columbus, Raleigh). There are tons of these. Most are inland, with lower cost of living and often higher quality of life for several reasons: lower crime, less congestion, less income inequality, more upward mobility. Then you have small cities/ towns by the thousands. Lowest cost of living, but less convenience in most cases and might miss some of the other criteria
- Distance from quality health care. Depending on your age and family health issues, you may want to avoid places where you'll be more than an hour's drive from a decent hospital. And there are huge parts of the country where that is the case. Might not matter to you.
- School quality. Aside from overall urbanity and factors like "waterfront", school quality is highly variable and is the single biggest driver of property value. Where I live in Chicago is a good, safe neighborhood, but we are in a so-so school district. If I move two blocks east, I'm in a better school district and an identical house costs 20% more. Once you get to big enough cities, almost everyone with the means uses private schools, which can be $30-60K/student/year - as much as many colleges. So quality public schools are a HUGE driver of cost of living.
- Commute/ work life: with Covid, many jobs have gone remote (I just took a job in California, in fact). But 85% of the economy is still in-person, on-site work. If you will have a business, you'll need to be there unless it's a fully digital/ online business. Think about commute times and costs. Think about public transit access, if you care about that.

The kind of business you buy will heavily dictate where your customer base is and how close you need to be to them.

Last thought, your focus on safety is, IMO, poorly founded. There is no such thing as a universally safe town or a universally bad one. I grew up in a friendly, small town of ~12,000 people in rural Indiana. We didn't lock our doors. We knew everyone. My parents still live there. There was a triple homicide there a month ago.

I live in Chicago now. In the city proper, not a suburb. In a mixed-race neighborhood (which is fantastic). It is by far NOT the richest part of Chicago, but most of the homes are now worth $800K-$1.3M. (In the really wealthy neighborhoods with great schools, most homes are $1.5-3M). I walk the dog every night at midnight or later. I am never concerned for my personal safety. The worst crime I have had to deal with is spray paint on a trash can in the alley, and some littering from drunk 20-year-olds walking home from bars. You can make a good life pretty much anywhere, and most of the time when people talk about "bad areas," what they're really saying is "those people don't look like me."

[Tammer in Philly]

The thing about the US is that there is so much freedom (relatively speaking) that people can lose some sense of discipline, some moral compass, some sense of accountability and responsibility. Some take advantage of our freedom (see China, Russia). You occasionally get people who go off the rails. The US places an strong emphasis on individuality perhaps at the expense of family.

I think your assessment of European Union in general is spot on. Most of those countries just kind of "exist". They don't really go anywhere...don't progress. Not as good an environment for innovation. The exception is probably Germany.

This is something that is parroted often but not in alignment with reality. Depending on which dimension of freedom you look at, the US is near the top (but not at the top), or pretty far from the top.

There are many lenses of "freedom," from individual civil liberties to economic freedom to freedom of the press and others.

In this one for overall freedom (with 76 individual metrics), the US doesn't crack the top 10, coming in 15th: https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

In this economic freedom assessment, the US does even worse at 20th: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

The Democracy Index has the US ranked 2nd ... of 2 in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... By_country

If you want to say "we're so free it causes other problems," you have to actually be able to define what that means, and those who have put in the effort to define it would seem to disagree. It's also worth remarkable, of course, that your actual assertion seems to be "we're so free we have more crime because some people abuse their freedom," but the countries that outrank us on every single freedom index ALSO have far less crime!

Seems to blow that hypothesis out of the water.

[Tammer in Philly]

Sorry, on OTHER final thought.

Everyone is correct that the amount of money you "need" varies dramatically based on where you live and your standard of "comfortable." But I'll try to put a few guardrails in place. This is subjective, and I welcome others' views.

First, what's your risk appetite? This is a country where a single uninsured medical emergency can cost upwards of $100K. Even if you are insured, most plans will have you on the hook for ~$10K-20K per year in out of pocket costs if you are a high utilizer (think ~$3K-10K in premiums, plus a deductible of $3K-8K, plus co-pays for in-network coverage or co-insurance for out-of-network providers). If you and your family are healthy, you may never spend more than your premiums because preventive care is typically included free of copays. On the other hand, a friend with very good insurance had to take his daughter to an out-of-network mental health professional due to a seizure, and they hit their $20K out of network spending cap very quickly. Another friend has a child on Humira for a GI problem, and they hit their out of pocket max in January of every year. So if you have any medical bad luck, figure $20K/year as an expense line, and that's mostly post-tax money (if you have a high-deductible plan and an HSA, $7200 can be pre-tax money).

Okay, with the huge variable of medical expenses out of the way, we can make some blanket statements.
1) More than $250K/year pre-tax is enough for a comfortable, stable life with savings in virtually any part of the country. If NY, you can make it, just not in Manhattan or the tony parts of Brooklyn. If SF, you can make it but you'll be in a suburb with a horrible commute. In most of the middle of the country, $250K is a lot by most measures.
2) Outside of the mega-urban locales, $150K pre-tax is enough to sock away $30K/year (much of which can be pre-tax through a 401K or similar), and still manage expenses. But you will have a more modest lifestyle
3) Median household income in the US is about $55K. Households from median to ~2x median tend to have little or no savings, and typically cannot cover a major unexpected expense. In smaller markets, where housing is ~1/3 the cost of major markets, 2x median is enough to be stable. Savings rate will be lower, of course, but you can still save.

Imagine you land in Midsize City, USA. Your house will cost ~$250K. Your mortgage + property taxes + insurance will probably be around $1600/month. You've got your $200/month health insurance premium. Your family's food and utilities will probably be another $750/month. Your car will cost you $80/month to own (insurance + repairs, assuming DIY), plus fuel. You'll have $200/month in cell phones, maybe more if you add in various subscriptions. You can add in your other expenses and build up from there to get a sense of total monthly outlays, then layer on your savings to figure out what your post-tax spending will be. If under $200K total earnings, figure on an effective tax rate of ~15-20% federal, plus whatever state and local for the places you like. I'd be willing to bet a reasonably frugal family of 4 could do that math and land on a number that's barely into the 6 figures.

One "nice" thing about the US is that, due to our aggregate tax structure being pretty regressive in practice, if your income goes up but you contain your lifestyle, the amount you can save goes up very fast. (It's "nice" if you're in the bracket that can save; might not be a good thing overall.) The other "nice" thing is that, in any reasonably desirable area, your home will be an (almost) recession-proof investment. Suggestion: look at maps of where property values did and did not collapse back in 2008. Because the housing market is very hot right now nationwide, that will give you a sense of where purchases are "safer." The boom and bust cycle doesn't hit every town equally, and high-demand areas tend to persist.

Okay, I really need to get back to work.

[Kenny Blankenship]

The thing about the US is that there is so much freedom (relatively speaking) that people can lose some sense of discipline, some moral compass, some sense of accountability and responsibility. Some take advantage of our freedom (see China, Russia). You occasionally get people who go off the rails. The US places an strong emphasis on individuality perhaps at the expense of family.

I think your assessment of European Union in general is spot on. Most of those countries just kind of "exist". They don't really go anywhere...don't progress. Not as good an environment for innovation. The exception is probably Germany.

This is something that is parroted often but not in alignment with reality. Depending on which dimension of freedom you look at, the US is near the top (but not at the top), or pretty far from the top.

There are many lenses of "freedom," from individual civil liberties to economic freedom to freedom of the press and others.

In this one for overall freedom (with 76 individual metrics), the US doesn't crack the top 10, coming in 15th: https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

In this economic freedom assessment, the US does even worse at 20th: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

The Democracy Index has the US ranked 2nd ... of 2 in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... By_country

If you want to say "we're so free it causes other problems," you have to actually be able to define what that means, and those who have put in the effort to define it would seem to disagree. It's also worth remarkable, of course, that your actual assertion seems to be "we're so free we have more crime because some people abuse their freedom," but the countries that outrank us on every single freedom index ALSO have far less crime!

Seems to blow that hypothesis out of the water.

Hong Kong #3 on the Human Freedom index? That alone invalidates the results of the study...

[Tammer in Philly]

The thing about the US is that there is so much freedom (relatively speaking) that people can lose some sense of discipline, some moral compass, some sense of accountability and responsibility. Some take advantage of our freedom (see China, Russia). You occasionally get people who go off the rails. The US places an strong emphasis on individuality perhaps at the expense of family.

I think your assessment of European Union in general is spot on. Most of those countries just kind of "exist". They don't really go anywhere...don't progress. Not as good an environment for innovation. The exception is probably Germany.

This is something that is parroted often but not in alignment with reality. Depending on which dimension of freedom you look at, the US is near the top (but not at the top), or pretty far from the top.

There are many lenses of "freedom," from individual civil liberties to economic freedom to freedom of the press and others.

In this one for overall freedom (with 76 individual metrics), the US doesn't crack the top 10, coming in 15th: https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

In this economic freedom assessment, the US does even worse at 20th: https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

The Democracy Index has the US ranked 2nd ... of 2 in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy ... By_country

If you want to say "we're so free it causes other problems," you have to actually be able to define what that means, and those who have put in the effort to define it would seem to disagree. It's also worth remarkable, of course, that your actual assertion seems to be "we're so free we have more crime because some people abuse their freedom," but the countries that outrank us on every single freedom index ALSO have far less crime!

Seems to blow that hypothesis out of the water.

Hong Kong #3 on the Human Freedom index? That alone invalidates the results of the study...

Interesting to take one data point out of context and thereby trash the rest. For those capable of reading, the presence of HK is actually called out as the only non-democracy included in the top ten and explained why. Reading is hard, though, when it contradicts one’s confirmation bias.

Note that one would expect HK to diminish as Chinese control extends into other aspects of life, but the rationale in the score lies in the various criteria considered.

Some people in the US talk about freedom while choosing to ignore the fact that armed agents of the state kill thousands of citizens each year with no due process and virtually no repercussions.

As one selects locations, here’s another interesting lens: what are the best states to have a baby in?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/real ... abies.html