S38 Block Cracked - now what?

[HealeyBN7]

I have been slowly working on the stroker rebuild of my spare S38 motor. I am following Paul Burke's build guidance, with his 94mm stroker pistons and eventual cam recommendation.

After 9 months at Costa Mesa R&D ( http://www.engine-machining.com/ ), John finished up the machine work. The head looks great. The block on the other hand has put me into a full stall.

After paying for the work and loading the block in the truck, his mechanic signals me over and draws my attention to two of the head bolts. "Hey...I just wanted to let you know that these are cracked, so you are going to have to install Time-Serts."

What????

Didn't you crack test it first? Why didn't you call me? How could you do all that work on a bad block?

I was in shock and doing my best to keep my cool. John seems unconcerned. "We fix them all the time. No big deal. I would have done yours, but I didn't have the right inserts on hand. It is easy to do. You can do it at home."

Ok. So, my experience building other motors tells me the block is junk, yet John and his mechanic are confident it is easily fixed.

I brought the block home, forgetting that I paid for block work on a cracked block. Did a little research on Time-Serts, spoke with the Time-Sert engineer, felt a little better and ordered the kit.

So, now the kit is here. The block is here, and all that stops me from installing the Time-Serts is the sinking feeling that I am wasting my time offering a band aid to a terminal patient.

Here are a few photos of the two bad bolt areas.





The deepest cracks extend 5mm down from the surface of the block.

Time-Serts are 24mm deep and "lock" at the bottom of the blind hole.

Any one going to Bimmerfest at the Rose Bowl with a spare block?

Thoughts?

Dean

[winfred]

i do timeserts all of the time in aluminum m52tu and m54 blocks because they pull the threads out, we do it preventively for all head jobs on these motors. never done it for those cracks, only thing id be worried about is corrosion from coolant intrusion but it'll probably be ok with some locktight as sealant

[mooseheadm5]

I could be mistaken, but does that set of cracks intersect an oil passage with the head bolt hole as well as the coolant passages, or are all three coolant?

[derrith]

I've seen cracks like that on an M30 block or two in the past. Those blocks were on cars that came in with blown headgaskets. The cracks were allowing oil to mix with the coolant and completely pollute the cooling system. I'd be wary of using that block. First I'd see what Paul has to say though.

[winfred]

looks like coolant on both, if it hits oil its a boat anchor

I could be mistaken, but does that set of cracks intersect an oil passage with the head bolt hole as well as the coolant passages, or are all three coolant?

[HealeyBN7]

Thanks guys for the advice. Those are coolant passages all around. No where near the oil. The Time-Sert engineer also recommended Loctite 266 and not to be shy with it. I have that as well.

Dean

[TurboChris]

You know....if it took someone NINE MONTHS to work my cylinder head and prep my block for a stroker kit....I'd be pissed off...

If said shop then told me it's done...come on and pick it up and after driving in from Thousand Oaks to Costa Mesa... the mechanic pulled me aside and told me it still needed addl work that they hadn't done cause they didn't have TIME or they couldn't be bothered to order some cheap timeserts?

I'd have gone OFF....of course I'm assuming you paid well for this work and it wasn't heavily discounted or something.

I hope it all works out for you...that's gotta be frustrating...

[ahab]

You know....if it took someone NINE MONTHS to work my cylinder head and prep my block for a stroker kit....I'd be pissed off...

If said shop then told me it's done...come on and pick it up and after driving in from Thousand Oaks to Costa Mesa... the mechanic pulled me aside and told me it still needed addl work that they hadn't done cause they didn't have TIME or they couldn't be bothered to order some cheap timeserts?

I'd have gone OFF....of course I'm assuming you paid well for this work and it wasn't heavily discounted or something.

I hope it all works out for you...that's gotta be frustrating...

Word.

[johnnye23]

You know....if it took someone NINE MONTHS to work my cylinder head and prep my block for a stroker kit....I'd be pissed off...

If said shop then told me it's done...come on and pick it up and after driving in from Thousand Oaks to Costa Mesa... the mechanic pulled me aside and told me it still needed addl work that they hadn't done cause they didn't have TIME or they couldn't be bothered to order some cheap timeserts?

I'd have gone OFF....of course I'm assuming you paid well for this work and it wasn't heavily discounted or something.

I hope it all works out for you...that's gotta be frustrating...

Could not agree more. If I were doing any S38 Memphis motor werkz would be the only machine shop to use. Leo is the man !

[Da_Hose]

Those cracks are terminal in my book.

Someone re-assembled the engine last time and probably didn't do a good job of cleaning out the bolt holes. When you torque down the bolts against that oil they will give proper reading. Then the engine will heat, oil expands and block cracks at bolt holes.

My M6 had the block replaced for this same reason.

If they machined your block, a magnafluxing and complete inspection is step one. They screwed you. I would replace the block, have someone else work it over and take that shop to small claims court. They are the experts and they have the responsibility to inspect the block for something as obvious (and basic) as those cracks BEFORE they tell you it is rebuildable AND take your money.

Jose

[Revhead]

I had exactly the same issue with a B38 I am rebuilding.
Half of the bolt threads on the deck are cracked.
I decided to rebuild with an earlier bored out 1985 block but the fact it has the correct engine mount locations for my E28 forced my hand.
It seems 1988 on blocks are lighter with thinner decks.

[Syndrome]

OK everyone. I know this thread is nearly a decade old, but my eE28 M5 has been sitting for nearly that time and I’m now in the process of resurrecting it. The car is the victim of overheating, caused by the previous owner. The head is now beautiful, ready to install together with a renewed cam assembly.

As I’m cleaning up the block’s deck for assembly, I see there are some cracks between the coolant passages and a couple of the head bolt holes. I know the common response is that if the deck of an S38 block is cracked between the water jacket passages and the bore for the head bolt, the block is dead and there’s nothing to be done to save the patient.

OK, that was 10 years ago. Nowadays, I don’t think cast iron S38 blocks are even available, so I have to try to find some sort of solution. I’ve read all sorts of things on this. On one side, these cracks 99% of the time do nothing, really, and the engine should run fine. On the other end, the engine is terminal and should be thrown onto the funeral pyre. In the middle is Time Serts.

If the bolt holes are time serted, it makes [some] sense that the water won’t have anywhere to flow, so it should be a reasonably good fix. They sell kits specific for BMW engines. Which kit would be the right one (M10X1.5, or M12X1.75)? BTW, the bolt holes in the block are ~37mm deep and the threads start at 6mm from the deck. So what length time serts are needed?

I’ve also read about coolant additives that will fill any small cracks. Is this snake oil?

Here’s the thing: I fully understand that the state of the art would be to replace the block, but the reality is that replacement blocks are not available, and if they are, I can’t afford them. What CAN be done? Please help me.

Thank you everyone for your patience, positive comments and advice. I really don’t want to reek of desperation, but I’m pretty desperate to find a workable solution that isn’t “nuclear”.

[HealeyBN7]

Can it really be almost 10 years…. Wow. I used the time certs and it has been fine. It has an additional 60k miles and runs great. I say, put in the certs and don’t worry. Based on my limited research most of the available blocks were cracked in one hole or another.

Dean

[Syndrome]

Thanks so much. That’s wonderful. Do you happen to remember the size you used? I can’t seem to get a bead on the any information that’s consistent (and/or true). There is so much conflicting information that it just can’t all be right. I don’t want to do it wrong…

[Revhead]

This thread came up in my email so I thought i'd say hello. I still have all my s38/m88 bits but sold the car years ago. I may buy another E28 in the future or possibly an E24.
I have seen with certain performance engines people drill and tap into the bottom bulkhead of the block and "long stud" through the head bolt holes (presumably the threaded holes in the top of the block are drilled right through). Therefore the cracks in the deck cease to be a problem as the stud is anchored in the bottom of the block. Not sure if the s38/m88 has the material to allow this.