Strangest intersection I've ever seen

[Mike W.]

Stuck here in Loveland, Co, I've done a bit of walking. Including across this bizarre intersection a few times. It actually works, but it helps if you've been thru it a few times. Lots of lights all have to be well coordinated. But to have 4 paths, some or most with multiple lanes, all alternating. One north, the next south, followed by another north, with yet another south, to merge a block or so up. All on one street going north from an intersection.

I kind of see it, but I'd have to sit down, draw out something much better than my little illustration and figure out all the traffic light timing to fully understand it. I know one thing though, whoever designed this thing had a whole lot more gray matter than the dummies who put mini roundabouts at every intersection.

[Galahad]

That is a strange traffic pattern.

On the complete other end of "works", I used to drive through this regularly - the only rule was don't stop. Only some of the entrances had stop signs, and in the lower right across the bridge was a light that would clog up the whole thing. Unfortunately they changed it to a weird peanut shaped rotary which made traffic less horrifying for my friends and the driving experience less fun for me.

[vinceg101]

While not nearly as whack as those two above, this one in the heart of one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Los Angeles. This is in the "Flats" of Beverly Hills (the "flats" are all the properties below Sunset Blvd. south to Santa Monica Blvd. and the commercial downtown area of BH). The large hotel at the top of the photo is none other than the infamous Beverly Hills Hotel on Sunset Blvd.

I have to drive through this intersection on occasion but I will find ways around it whenever I can just to avoid the shear unmitigated chaos that happens at this un-metered 6 point intersection (there are stop signs, but it's laughable). Both Beverly Drive and Canon Drive are major thoroughfares and NO ONE can ever figure out the sequence of right of ways, especially if some poor slob wants to turn left or right in the middle of it. The scale of it is enormous (you can land CH-53 in the middle of it) which is deceptive as you get to look at your fellow drivers in the eyes for a long distance while trying to pirouette around each other. And yes, there is evidence of many accidents and braking skid marks all the time.

I believe with every fiber in my body that Beverly Hills keeps it this way as some form dystopian traffic control method. Every time I have to go through it, it's with gritted teeth and sweaty palms.

[topher800]

Is this common yet? The crossover, over a freeway, eliminating the clover leaves and the left traffic arrows.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9578052 ... ?entry=ttu

[Mike W.]

Is this common yet? The crossover, over a freeway, eliminating the clover leaves and the left traffic arrows.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9578052 ... ?entry=ttu

You mean kind of like a freeway interchange, but without the freeway? I don't think they're common, but I have seen them.

[gadget73]

While not nearly as whack as those two above, this one in the heart of one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Los Angeles.

to me this looks like a good place for a traffic circle.

[vinceg101]

While not nearly as whack as those two above, this one in the heart of one of the most affluent neighborhoods in Los Angeles.

to me this looks like a good place for a traffic circle.

I would agree, really a circle is the only sane solution to this intersection.
You're starting to see more and more circles being installed in CA these days.

[Mike W.]

to me this looks like a good place for a traffic circle.

I would agree, really a circle is the only sane solution to this intersection.
You're starting to see more and more circles being installed in CA these days.

I'm seeing those things everywhere these days. I swear traffic engineers must get a bonus for everyone they spec. I spent a bit of time in England long ago where intersections with 5 roads, no two of which were in a straight line were common, and they worked great. But all I see here is them being used as an almost stop sign in all the wrong places.

[vinceg101]

I would agree, really a circle is the only sane solution to this intersection.
You're starting to see more and more circles being installed in CA these days.

I'm seeing those things everywhere these days. I swear traffic engineers must get a bonus for everyone they spec. I spent a bit of time in England long ago where intersections with 5 roads, no two of which were in a straight line were common, and they worked great. But all I see here is them being used as an almost stop sign in all the wrong places.

I grew up in New Jersey and they used to be the defacto traffic control system, back when traffic was much lighter. There was/is a sizeable one in my hometown that is centered under a railroad overpass. By the time I got around to driving, NJ had been systematically removing them and changing them out with traditional signaled intersections. I was just down in San Diego over the weekend and they putting them on all the minor intersections everywhere.

[gadget73]

You're not from Brooklawn are you? There is a double circle right there with a railroad overpass between them. That specific spot is what inspired the disc brake conversion on my 73 Super Beetle. It was always flooded under that stupid overpass and I got tired of having no brakes coming into that second circle. Driving that route daily I hit 3 circles and got pretty comfortable with them, yet terrified of other people who can't figure them out. I was going somewhere with a friend and she got into a circle and missed the exit. Instead of just going around and trying again she took the next exit, went up the road, turned around, got back in the circle and out the correct one. I asked her why and she said she didn't think you could go around the circle.

NJ has a lot of what we call "jughandles" too. All turns are from the right lane, it will loop you around to a traffic light in order to cross the road or go the other way. These also seem to be an absolute mystery to people, but it eliminates the need to do a U turn.

I don't mind circles when they aren't dumbly engineered or stuck in places they don't make sense. There is a new-ish one locally thats both. Its not large enough for the tractor-trailers that traverse it and you can see tire treads across the bricks in the center of it. This used to be a Y intersection with one side of it being a one-way merge in. Now its a two way for each leg.

[vinceg101]

You're not from Brooklawn are you? There is a double circle right there with a railroad overpass between them. That specific spot is what inspired the disc brake conversion on my 73 Super Beetle. It was always flooded under that stupid overpass and I got tired of having no brakes coming into that second circle.

No, Westfield (Union County), here's a picture of that circle (and yes it would flood occasionally also):

NJ has a lot of what we call "jughandles" too. All turns are from the right lane, it will loop you around to a traffic light in order to cross the road or go the other way. These also seem to be an absolute mystery to people, but it eliminates the need to do a U turn.

Route 1 is famous for these, especially down south of Brunswick. I always considered them either left-over circles after the major road got too heavily trafficed or the next step down from them. By in large they work except when you have to turn left across the major feeder road, then it's a PITA because everything gets gridlocked. They have converted most of these over to traditional overpasses with cloverleaves.

I don't mind circles when they aren't dumbly engineered or stuck in places they don't make sense. There is a new-ish one locally thats both. Its not large enough for the tractor-trailers that traverse it and you can see tire treads across the bricks in the center of it. This used to be a Y intersection with one side of it being a one-way merge in. Now its a two way for each leg.

I agree they work in principle. The smaller ones are annoying but do manage to slow traffic through these intersections. The ones in San Diego I recently saw were on previously un-controlled intersections so it was kind of a free for all (but they were such minor intersections the traffic was practically non-existent). The ones that scare me are the larger ones only because people in the intersections are moving a pretty fast clip and few people can grasp the concept of merging in circles (both those in the circle and those entering) that if becomes kind of terrifying to enter one. There is one up in Reno I ran into going to RenoFest (up near Eric's house) that fits this description.

[gadget73]

The running joke for navigating a circle used to be "close your eyes and stand on it". It was mildly terrifying driving a Bug in the early 2000s through those things. An underpowered tin can on wheels surrounded by 2 ton SUVs at high speeds. I'm pretty sure I developed most of my on-road situational awareness as a defense mechanism from all that.

[vinceg101]

The running joke for navigating a circle used to be "close your eyes and stand on it". It was mildly terrifying driving a Bug in the early 2000s through those things. An underpowered tin can on wheels surrounded by 2 ton SUVs at high speeds. I'm pretty sure I developed most of my on-road situational awareness as a defense mechanism from all that.

Hey, that is the very definition of being a New Jersey driver. You learn to drive in NJ, you can pretty much drive anywhere.
When I got out here to Los Angeles, I laughed at how passive the drivers were on the roads and freeways.

[gadget73]

I'm from the part of the state where most of the roads are 2 lane, so I'm probably on the passive side of NJ drivers. My friend from a couple counties north tends to scare me when I ride with him, but I annoy him by doing full stops and making sure I have enough space to actually pull out without risk of death.