Yet another first for the E28 turbo crowd...................

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
Duke
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Yet another first for the E28 turbo crowd...................

Post by Duke »

I just received my per diem payment for $3.50 a day while in Iraq.

My car will be getting a Racelogic Traction Control System.

The system is fantastic.......here are lots of details -

Traction Control

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What the System Does for Your Car
Once you have driven a powerful car with Racelogic Traction Control, you will never want to be without it. We are so sure that we offer a 30 day money back guarantee if you don't agree. Acceleration out of junctions becomes rapid and repeatable, just bury the throttle and the system does the rest, constantly adjusting the power of the engine every thousandth of a second, searching for maximum grip. In a rear wheel drive car you can use full throttle around a corner with full confidence that the rear end isn't going to suddenly break away.
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Image
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In wet and slippery conditions the system really becomes fun, stamp on the gas and watch other cars disappear behind you as the car accelerates as fast as the grip allows without skidding all over the road. Acceleration away from traffic lights is so much quicker than cars without the system, that you'll leave behind scores of drivers with faster cars.

Optional -

Launch Control

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Launch control is a function within the Traction Control system designed to automate standing starts to maximize the initial acceleration.

It is activated by pressing a button on the dashboard when the car is stationary. This will bring in a secondary rev-limit (for example 4000 rpm).


The throttle can be fully depressed without over-revving the engine. The car is put into gear, the throttle floored, and then the clutch is engaged, whilst the launch control system controls the wheelspin and revs for the perfect start.

On a turbo car, if the launch control is active, and full throttle is given for two to three seconds, the boost pressure will build up before the clutch is released, resulting in stunning off-the-line performance.

The launch control rev limit can be programmed via a laptop computer or by a combination of presses on the launch control button. This is done by pressing it once, and then once again but this time holding it in and raising the revs to the desired level, then the button is released, setting the new rev limit to this level. This makes it very easy to re-program the launching revs just before a start if conditions suddenly change.

There are various parameters you can tune if you want to get the last little bit of acceleration out of the system. You can have two switchable levels for wet and dry, the level of wheelspin at which the system swaps from Launch Control to traction Control can be adjusted, and on the professional system you can even switch to a lower limit once the car starts to move.


Full Throttle Shift
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The full throttle gearshift system is activated by a switch fitted to the clutch pedal, either a hydraulic switch or a mechanical switch. Once the clutch is depressed, the system automatically drops the engine revs down by using a momentary rev-limit, allowing the next gear to be selected without lifting off the throttle. Because the throttle is always fully depressed, the engine is instantly back on full power, and on a turbo car the turbo is still producing boost. Tests have shown up to 0.1 seconds can be gained per gearchange.

Digital Adjuster
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Featuring a backlit LCD screen and simple rotary selector button, packaged with a billet aluminum faceplate, the Digital Adjuster controls slip levels but can also be used as a setup and diagnostic tool, and features many display and configuration options.

Slip levels are adjustable in 1% increments from 0% up to 25%, and launch control comes as standard. Cut level thresholds, rev limits, wheel sizes and RPM operating levels can all be altered in real-time. The display option will represent, in a graph or text format, wheel speeds, RPM, and cut levels. In addition an injector cut feature allows diagnostics to be carried out without the use of a laptop computer.

The adjuster can be added to an existing Traction Control setup as an upgrade, or as an existing component of a new system.

Image

Image

I am getting the LC, FTS and Digital Adjuster. Will take some doing to install, but after installing the TEC3, it should be no problem.

Soon, my car will have more computers that NORAD!

Racelogic Website

For those of you who are concerned about cutting fuel to a FI engine -

From their FAQ section,
Q:- I am concerned that the system cuts fuel, and I have a highly modified turbo engine, which if it runs lean will cause instant damage. How safe is the Racelogic system on these types of engine?
A:- The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.
Last edited by Duke on Sep 03, 2006 10:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

I think you should with hold the accollades until after it is installed and funtioning as advertised.
Todd
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Are you suggesting that I am not capable of installing it correctly?

Piece of cake.

Speaking of installation, shouldn’t you be installing the turbo oil return fitting into my oil pan right now?

Chop, chop…….GET-ER-DONE.
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

Duke M535ti wrote:Are you suggesting that I am not capable of installing it correctly?

Piece of cake.

Speaking of installation, shouldn’t you be installing the turbo oil return fitting into my oil pan right now?

Chop, chop…….GET-ER-DONE.
I am suggesting that not all products work as well as advertised.

Engine building is TIG welding the bung in the oil pan. Picking up the engine Tuesday night. Cannot do shit without it.

Todd
Boru
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Post by Boru »

Duke, I think that system only works with a B34 cylinder head. I have a nice new one... $400.00 and it's yours. :D
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Sweeney wrote:Duke, I think that system only works with a B34 cylinder head. I have a nice new one... $400.00 and it's yours. :D
Yea...yea....we need to put that sucker on ebay. I have ANOTHER new B34 head in my garage.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

T_C_D wrote:
I am suggesting that not all products work as well as advertised.

Engine building is TIG welding the bung in the oil pan. Picking up the engine Tuesday night. Cannot do shit without it.

Todd
I have asked quite a few people who have the sytems,and intalled the sytems questions and they all agree that it is a great product.

You can apply some leather care to the dash, door caps and door handels. I put it in the car for your detailing pleasure. ;)
RAVC1
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More...

Post by RAVC1 »

If you ask me Duke is having far too much fun. First, the Aquamist and now this.

Aquamist; yeah yeah yeah....!

Rick
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Post by rundatrack »

sounds cool
Matt
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Post by Matt »

♦I've driven a RaceLogic equipped mkIV Supra Twin Turbo, on the street, and at the track.

It really does work nicely. The one i was driving was apparently a less advanced setup.. basically had a knob that was "mode" or pct of allowed slip (wet, dry, off, 10%, 15%, 20%)

It was fantastic in the supra... it made this distinctly F1 traction control sound (a bit like a machine gun firing or something) as you were powering out of corners in low gears.

It didn't get in the way at the track either... the rear of the car came around a little bit at ~80mph and i just rode it out.. not sure if the TC ever intervened or not but it sure felt great to ride out a rear end slide at that speed :) (This was T6 at Mid America, iirc)
Yellow2
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Post by Yellow2 »

just another kid with his new toys :banana: but arent we all? i can surf ebay and find 100000 things to put on my car. to bad my wallet isnt big enough yet.

Interesting system. Someone has to be a first and put it on their car if they can. I bet people from sweeden are gonna start poping up now saying they have had that on their car all along with their 600hp monsters.......they build some crazy cars over there.
Rich in Tupelo
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Post by Rich in Tupelo »

speaking of b34 heads. Who was it that was going to have theirs flow tested to see what the #s where and did that ever get posted?
russc
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Post by russc »

Thats Dukes Hartge head thats suppose to be flow tested.

RussC
Duke
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Post by Duke »

russc wrote:Thats Dukes Hartge head thats suppose to be flow tested.
RussC
The Hartge H6S head would not represent what a B34 will flow. The H6S head with the extensive porting and bigger valves is just not a B34 anymore. I have not had it flowed due to this repair job being way over budget as is.
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

Duke, how does this system work? I'm very curious. Different traction control systems work in different ways.

It sounds from the description like a throttle interupt kind of traction control. But the e28 uses a cable throttle, not electronic, so I can't see how that could be made to work. Does it actuate the rear brakes to slow the spinning? That doesn't make much sense, either. Pulling timing or fuel to reduce power sound kind of dangerous to do on a turbo motor as well.

I'm out of ideas for how it works, could you edjimicate me a little on this new toy of yours?

Jeremy
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Jeremy wrote:Duke, how does this system work? I'm very curious. Different traction control systems work in different ways.

It sounds from the description like a throttle interupt kind of traction control. But the e28 uses a cable throttle, not electronic, so I can't see how that could be made to work. Does it actuate the rear brakes to slow the spinning? That doesn't make much sense, either. Pulling timing or fuel to reduce power sound kind of dangerous to do on a turbo motor as well.

I'm out of ideas for how it works, could you edjimicate me a little on this new toy of yours?

Jeremy
Their website has lots of info......here is the BLUF -

The Racelogic system works on individual injectors, and is designed only to cut out one whole injection pulse. The amount of fuel is not just decreased, it is completely removed for one stroke. This means the engine either receives a 100% complete amount of fuel or none at all. If it receives none at all, the spark has no effect, the mixture will not ignite, and therefore the temperature does not go up. We have succesfully fitted the system to Formula One engines, 750 BHP Turbo Engines (in our own Supra), motorbike engines and kart engines.

It cuts fuel to limit engine power and thus wheel spin. As stated above, engine will not lean out.
Matt
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Post by Matt »

It's basically a box with inputs and outputs.

The inputs are the ABS wheel speed sensors. It compares the revolutions of the driven wheels to those of the undriven wheels.

The outputs are a proxy on the injectors. If it decides too much wheel spin is happening, some of those ECU-supplied "hey injector, go open yourself" signals dont ever reach the injector(s). i.e. you wire your ecu injector drivers into this thing, and then this thing actually is what talks (or not) your injectors.

the granularity of injection cut is something i don't know of for sure - does it cut 1injector only, even on batch fire ECUs? IIRC it has a ramp-up of injection cut to try to make the smoothest TC intervention possible.

In practice, it is very fucking slick. Nothing like the bullshit factory TC systems you are used to (which sap _all_ of your power immediately and cause the car to lurch forware, via the use of an upstream throttle or a DBW throttle butterfly). When this thing kicks on, two things happen

1) you hear this "rat-a-tat-tat" sound out the exhaust
2) the car doesn't spin out

Note things not in the list
1) forward lurch
2) loss of acceleration
3) R->F weight shift in car
4) the need to lift

driving a big power car with this setup is very easy and very addicting. (car i was driving was ~400hp)
Duke
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Post by Duke »

TRACTION CONTROL IN DA HAUSE!!!!

Image

That sure is a lot of wires. All I need now is my CAR!!! Todd.........get-er-done, chop, chop.
Last edited by Duke on Sep 19, 2006 8:11 AM, edited 2 times in total.
russc
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Post by russc »

Pics when its installed?

RussC
Duke
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Post by Duke »

russc wrote:Pics when its installed?

RussC
Wont be very sexy. The two computers I tie into are both in the glove box (TEC3 and ABS). Will just be another box with short wires spliced into them. I am not sure where to locate the control head though. I may just mount it on the center console below the hand brake or in the ash tray area. Hard to pictue without my car. :bawl: :bawl:

I still have the EBC to find a location for too.
Wiseguy
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Post by Wiseguy »

Duke,

You're gonna love it. Pretty easy to install and works GREAT! I installed one on a Turbo E36 M3.. really nice setup.
SheerHippo
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Post by SheerHippo »

I guess its cool, but i'd rather "drive"...
atle28e
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Post by atle28e »

SheerHippo wrote:I guess its cool, but i'd rather "drive"...
THANK YOU!! I mean it would be fun to play around with it and you can always turn it off. But i aint got the money for it so who cares
Duke
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Post by Duke »

atle28e wrote: But i aint got the money for it so who cares
Those people who do have the money and will have well over 400 HP going to the rear wheels.....................thats who.
Shawn D.
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Post by Shawn D. »

atle28e wrote:But i aint got the money for it so who cares
Sour grapes, huh?

There's plenty of stuff out there that many of us don't have the money for, but we still enjoy learning about it.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Bump.............ran across the box with the TC in my office and got excited again. Can't wait to install it. As soon as I am tuned to 20 psi, this baby goes in.
Wiseguy
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Post by Wiseguy »

All I gotta say is that this car had damn well better be @ 5erfest this year....
a
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Post by a »

works sorta like a jake brake for gassers?
Duke
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Post by Duke »

a wrote:works sorta like a jake brake for gassers?
??
wiseguy wrote:All I gotta say is that this car had damn well better be @ 5erfest this year....
So far, its a go. The calendar looks clear thus far.
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

I know this is not in any way related to what you're doing Duke, but thought it had some interesting information on water injection. This guy is definitly using water injection to its' potential. Even to the point of replacing the intercooler in some applications. Anyway enjoy.

http://www.stevemorrisracingengines.com ... e-SMRE.pdf
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