Lucifer's Hammer Part 4

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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Ken H.
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Joined: Dec 04, 2006 8:43 PM
Location: Suburban Gomorrah

Lucifer's Hammer Part 4

Post by Ken H. »

Lucifer's Hammer Series Index: Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Part 9Part 10Part 11Part 12Part 13Part 14Photos

As we get into the work on the motor, the notes become more detailed. While it's going to bore some people, this stuff came more or less intact out of the "diary," the idea being to convey what was in our collective heads. :popcorn:

8/12/ thru 8/17/04 The initial survey at Bimmerhaus.
~Crank, rods pistons had been installed in the short block. Considerable resistance in getting the rotating assembly to turn over. Tested with a torque wrench, the effort was close to 70 ft-lbs. :shock:
~Main caps pulled. Some main bolts had over 80 ft-lbs loading; others were barely more than finger tight. What were they put on with, an air wrench or what? :x This makes us nervous about possible distortion of the main bearings.
~Main caps pulled, along with the rod bottom end bolts. Oil spray fittings a la M106 are in place and properly oriented.
~There is virtually zero axial play in the crank at the thrust bearing. Normal should be around .003" to .004"
~The interior of the block did have the casting imperfections in the crankcase ground off.
~Block exterior was sprayed with something that looked like a Maaco leftover. Metallic baby blue. Blech. :?
~The oil pan has been painted with some kind of aluminum paint (Alumiblast?) Mark thinks it will peel over time, regardless. I want to get it stripped to bare metal then clear powdercoated or anodized clear. just a personal whim.
~Some discussion about the rods. The stock ones are probably strong enough, but having them balanced isn't cheap. I recall Fahey telling me a balancing and polishing would run 2 to 2 1/2 hours labor per rod (!) So from a cost perspective, it's not much more to get a set of billet rods made. Given where we want to go with this thing, the consensus is to use a set of billet units--Oliver, Pauter, Carillo all acceptable. Mark leans toward Carillo as do Dave and I. Cost difference between the three is very small; delivery is longest through Pauter.
~A few parts aren't being found, but things pretty much in hand once we get through the dozen or so boxes.
~Head appears to have received some kind of coating treatment; valves have been installed.
~The welds on the exhaust system pieces are very good. Bends are uniform with no diameter changes. Good workmanship. ;)
What we can't evaluate is the quality of the block machining. Bore diameter consistency, yes, but we need to check alignments, variation from datum lines. Mark and Dave want to get the block to Paul Burke in KC and have him go over what was done thus far.

"Paul Burke. Who he?" Mark sighs. "Paul was the engine guy at the old Bimmerwerks shop in Boulder. He's done maybe a thousand race motors over the past 25 years. He does some amazing things on BMW motors." From what I've seen in the Bimmerhaus shop, I trust Mark and Dave's judgment. "OK. Let's give the man a call."

Sidebar: Bimmerwerks was sold a few years back and the staff split up. Mark and Dave went to Bob Tunnell's Bimmerhaus Performance which was just starting up. Paul went back to KC where he was doing big block drag motors and some BMW on his own, under the name, "Paul Burke Imagineering."

The call to Paul outlines what we need:
~a dimensional and layout check on the block--is the machining true to various master lines?
~is the head work where it needs to be, or is there additional port, valve and chamber work needed?
~evaluate need for O-ringing the block, given the contemplated boost levels; possible need for using studs, custom head gaskets.
~look at the parts and work that's there--isn it going to work for what KH has in mind?
~the key question: does Paul have any interest in doing the build, with or without KH' involvement and input?

Paul sez he'll give it some consideration and will get back to us.

Given what's turned up thus far, there is a lot of concern about the machining on the block. The cylinders were honed for chrome rings. A rehone for iron/moly rings may take things out to where we need to look at upsized pistons. Initial measurements on the bores indicate acceptable tolerances (diameters, taper), but given the main caps installation findings, an align bore may be in the offing.

If the block requires a lot of work, and the pistons are a lost cause due to a rebore, Mark mentions that Bimmerhaus (BH from this point forward) has a stock S38 block in storage. If so, we may need to consider align-boring that block and taking the bore out to match the diameter on the present pistons. This would mean that the "new" block would have to have the interior of it's crankcase ground and be machined for the oil jets. Pisses me off, as the work on the present block is money wasted. Paul's analysis will provide some answers.

In going over the pistons and rings, we haven't found any marks that indicate the maker. I'm thinking they are Wisecos, based on EB's remarks that he uses Wisecos in preference to JE due to better size availability. But he sid the pistons are custom made, so whazza difference? :dunno: Counter this with comments that the replacement pistons had to come from JE. EB stated the rings were chrome, and the bores were honed for chrome rings. I have no idea what make the rings might be. Another piece of fallout from the absence of documentation from EB.

8/18/04 Investigations on the turbo. The turbo came home in its original shipping box. Sent from Central Turbos in Miami to EB. Upon examination, it is a GT-35R, but the turbine is marked "precision" and has an A/R of .48. I call Central Turbo and get referred to one of their repair subcontractors. I get told that's not the original turbine. The compressor appears to be new, not a reman. The setup was probably done for a sub 2- liter ricer; the .48 A/R is WAAAAY small for my application. I need a .82 or 1.06, neither of which this outfit has. Dreck.

Conversations in the past with Ray Hall indicated a .82 A/R would be best for driveability. A fundamental question can be asked here: if EB was so knowledgable about FI on the S38 motor, why was a .48 A/R turbine installed in the first place? Makes for a lot more uncertainty on what else was or wasn't done on the motor.

KH calls Limit Engineering in Lake Havasu AZ, LE being a Garrett dealer who will actualy work with customers ! :D I speak with John Craig, the owner. They may be able to help. John want the entire unit down there to do the turbine swap, but also to see if anything needs to be changed as regards the exducer wheel. Turnaround time would be about ten days. On its way.

8/19/04 Phone calls to Wiseco come up blank--not ordered from them. Checked with JE. They confirm that there was ann order placed in early July 04 which ties out to what I've got, based on numbers engraved into the underside of the pistons. Documentation regarding dimensions is coming from JE. Here 8/23.

I went over some of my questions on the moving parts with JE's techs. They think there shouldn't be any concern about some minor resistance on crank rotation--maybe 15 to 20 ft-lbs, but to be certain there isn't any possible interference between bearings and fillet radii on the crank itself. Moldex is generous with their fillet radius and this sometimes creates perceived drag. The primary ways there might be any kind of serious resistance are (a) blown or destroyed motor, (b) improper assembly--main caps or bearings installed incorrectly, (c) insufficient clearance at the thrust bearing, (d) insufficient clearance on the bearings themselves--wrong size installed, and (e) parasitic drag from the main seals. With proper lubrication, resistance from the rings would be minimal, even before break-in. So (b) and (c) are pretty much on the money.

8/20/04 Took the flywheel and clutch pieces down to Don Wilson at Wilson Chassis in Denver for a suitability assessment. Don is the QuarterMaster dealer in Denver. Parts appear to be appropriate for the planned application; Don can get replacement parts if needed. Don thinks the 6-puck metallic friction disk is going to be pretty rugged in a street application, but will handle the expected torque.

8/24/04 Located addy and phone number for Moldex. They have no record of EB's having ordered a 94 or 95 mm 6-cyl crank in the February-to-June 2003 period. 12 cyl cranks, yes, but no 6 cyl units. Makes me wonder if EB had one on the shelf or sourced it from who knows where.

Worth noting is the crank is marked, and measures, 95 mm on the throws. (95 mm may create some additional side-loading on the cylinder walls, and it may also cause some cocking of the piston in the cylinder. I need to do some analytics, but whatever the results, I still have the crank. :?
I call Mark and ask him if the 95 mm makes any difference on the Carillo order. Mark says no, the throw dimensions having been sent with the work sheet along with a piston. The rods ought to be here in about 7 weeks. This puts us out around October 11 for engine assembly assuming no other surprises.

9/3/04 John at Limit advises the turbo is shipping today, along with an additional 4-bolt flange. Flange is mild steel, so use it as a pattern to make a duplicate from 321 stainless. This step will avoid welding problems coming from dissimilar materials--the downpipe being made out of 304 stainless, which doesn't weld up well with mild steel. All we need are weld problems in an area subject to major heat stress. . . :)

9/7/04 Original M5 flywheel, and clutch components returned from QuarterMaster. All in excellent shape and FS, along with a buncha other bits off the motor. Contact me by PM for what's available. :D

9/10/04 Conversation with Paul outlining the tale of woe to this point. He's interested in having a look at the motor. He may be able to come out in the next couple of weeks to have a look-see and catch up with friends at Bimmerhaus.

9/21/04 Survey of the motor with Paul. This isn't a complete list, but it covers most of the ground.
1. Pistons had been installed backward. There are "eyebrow" cuts in the piston crowns to clear the valves. Had the head been installed, turning the motor over would have caused the valves to hit the pistons, thus destroying the valves.
2. Insufficient axial clearances at rod bottom ends, virtually zero play at the thrust bearing.
3. M106 oil jets were installed correctly. ;)
4. Internal crankcase grinding was done properly. This was done to aid in splash oil return to the pan.
5. Oil gallery allen bolt plugs and original freeze plugs were not removed when the block was hot-tanked. Questions about how much crud may be in the galleries and water jacket.
6. Turbo mount slightly warped; doesn't mate cleanly to block mounting points. Will (a) need to be straightened, (b)mounting holes opened up slightly to eliminate any stress on bolts, (c) gusseted for stiffness/strength.
7. oil pan, front cover, external aluminum pieces need to be stripped, media blasted before clear powdercoating. Again, powdercoating is for corrosion protection rather than simply appearance.
8. Paul will check intake and exhaust tracts for volume consistency, mike to confirm any degree of enlargement done by EB, and will revisit grinding on the valve seats.
9. Valve guides to be looked at. Exhausts were supposedly replaced. Replace intakes.
10. Valve springs checked for uniform height, compression poundage.
11. Exhaust downpipe will be sectioned and a stainless flex section welded in. This to alleviate stresses from the solid pipe's flexing as the motor moves under load and expands/contracts from heat stress. Copy the 4-bolt flange in 321 stainless. Weld in a bung for the EGT sensor either into the turbine outlet or high in the downpipe. Exhaust has a bung in place for the O2 sensor. KH: pick up a wideband sensor to aid in tuning
12. Opening in the turbo mounting flange will need grinding to properly mate with the header flange and the turbine inflow flange. Close at present, but needs some attention.
13. Went over what's needed for the oil filter blockoff plate, cover for oil filter head. Oil filter will be remote-mounted, as the turbo has space conflicts with the stock layout.
14. Looked at possible locations for the turbo oil return line. Source for the turbo oil feed will come out of the oil filter line back to the motor. This assures the turbo gets oil directly post-filter, assuring as clean oil as possible.
14. Paul expressed some concern about sufficient supporting brackets for the header transfer piping where it traverses the front of the block. Will need to evaluate as we do the mockup assembly of the exhaust system.
15. Paul wants to consider a radiator upgrade to an all-aluminum unit with greater capacity. Concern is the greater level of heat the turbo'ed motor will put out, and the absence of the auxiliary cooling fan. (IC now taking up room in front of the radiator.)
16. Need to contact Holley to determine if the fuel pump EB got will do the job of supporting 72# injectors. Neither Paul nor I think it will, tho' it would be fine in a NA motor.
17. Paul thinks replacing the clutch master, slave cylinders and related hydraulic lines is a good idea; preventive maintenance if nothing else.
18. Going to replace the piston rings with ductile iron moly coated ones. Given the cylinder diameters (94.36 mm) finding an off-the-shelf ring pack may take some doing.

"I don't know what EB was thinking when he settled on thiis bore size. Usual procedure is to ascertain what ring packs and bore diameters are available and will work in a given application. The ranges out there are pretty broad, but once you know the rings are there, you send the rings or the information to the piston shop and they can build them accordingly. Looks like things got done backwards here."

We got lucky. Total Seal was able to come up with a proper ring pack and we didn't have to face getting custom rings made ($$$).

19. Paul thinks using new stock BMW head bolts (not torque-to-yield) probably OK. Stock head gasket from the 3.8 liter motor (selected for bore diameter) also probably OK., as motor won't be running up close to 15 psi boost except on occasional instances. Therefore, O-ringing may not be a requirement. This also avoids having to use a custom solid copper head gasket ($$)

Mentioned talking with TCD about what they had found out about boosting the M30 to 17psi or so. Todd sez the stock head gasket works fine and provides a potential pressure relief avenue if overboost turns up. I should see no problems at 15 psi. More on the head gasket in a later chapter. . . :roll:
20. More engine (mis-) assembly findings. Locating dowels appear to have been removed with a pair of Vise-Grips then replaced with a hammer. New dowels needed.
Close examination of threaded holes in the block, including the head bolt holes, indicate they were never properly flushed out or chamfered. Proper assembly technique calls for flushing the holes out with solvent, compressed air and a Q-tip to be certain the holes are clear, then running a chasing tap all the way down on each hole, then lightly chamfering the top.

More findings: some evidence that mating surfaces were coated with silicone RTV sealant., rather than Aviation Permatex or Hylomar. Particles of this stuff have a way of getting through the oil filter and can gum up oil passageways. The turbo bearings are very much at risk. The turbo rotating assemblies have very tight tolerances; the rotating assembly turning 80-100,000 rpm. Foreign matter getting in there can kill the rotating assembly right now.
21. Paul want to use stainless or cadmium-plated fasteners where exposed to potential corrosion, e.g., oil pan bolts. IAlso, where possible, he prefers to use new fasteners on anything critical or subjected to stress. I certainly have no problem with this approach.
22. Main cap bolts will get replaced with ARP.
23. Paul emphatically agrees with using Carillo rods. "Given what you have for a crank, put those rods in there and that bottom end will hold 1400 hp."
24. Oil pump as supplied by EB appears to be new. No indication it was, in fact, blueprinted as stated in EB's 7/19 email to KH.
25. Need to check the alllen bolts in the throttle butterflies to be sure they were red Loctited into place.

Paul wants to know why the throttle bodies were opened up to 50 mm from the stock 48 mm. "The idea was to increase air volume delivery. the 2 mm increase gave us about 8.7% more area. The motor is going from 3453 cc to 3986 cc. That's a 15.4% increase in displacement." Paul disagrees. "The issue isn't area, but air mass flow. You stay with a smaller TB cross section but increase the velocity and you can end up with better volume delivered into the cylinder. You remember Bernoulli's Theorem?"

26. Paul is going to cc the intake and exhaust tracts to establish uniformity, along with cc-ing the combustion chambers and piston crown dishes. He's of the opinion that the head machining, as it came from Motorsport, is generally very good, and that little metal removal is called for. Final finish on the ports may take off some protuberances, with the surface finish left as it comes from, say 280-grit emery. This creates some turbulence, but stays away from a slick surface which causes laminar flow drag (bad).
The plan is also to mike the ports to see how much machining EB's or his subcontractor did to the ports before putting in the S38B38 valves.
27. Paul wants a look at the Schrick 272 cam, as he has concerns about the rate of lift and possible effects on the intake charge. Question is, is the 272 too aggressive for the turbo application, in combination with the stock 248 cam on the exhaust side? Potential for overlap issues. The solution points toward using adjustable cam sprockets on both I and E, to minimize overlap, especially so with the exhaust cam.
28. Clutch, friction disc, flywheel and T.O. bearing all appear to be suitable. "The flywheel may be a tad light for street application, but we'll see." No Sh*t . . . :bawl:
29. Cursory look at the wastegate. Blowoff valve/diverter will get welded in when we get the plumbing from the IC in place and we see what kind of room we have to work with.
30. Discussion regarding setting up the Electromotive TEC-3r. Paul wants to defer this to Mark, who has much more experience on the TEC systems. Mark, who has a very full plate at Bimmerhaus, has concerns, as installation, setup and tuning on a TEC can be very time-consuming. KH suggests bringing The Carb Shop/Mile High Performance into the picture. MHP is the Denver region Electromotive dealer, and has a very good reputation, especially among the drag bunch.
Political issues come up, as Bimmerhaus' management doesn't want outside parties working on their shop floor.
Negotiations are needed. Engineering problems I can deal with. Gawd how I hate political BS . . . :argue:

So the game plan shapes up. Dave and Ken will work on the car at Bimmerhaus, dealing with the suspension, driveline, brakes and various interior stuff. Paul will take the motor and it's various loose ends back to Missouri. The biatch will be taken completely apart and everything miked, measured and assessed as to what the next steps will need to be. :up: Paul recognizes I am more than a bit beaten up after the previous go-round, and so regular conversations are definitely on the agenda. :wave:

The next chapter covers what Paul finds as the pieces get scrutinized and we get ready for assembly. ;)
Last edited by Ken H. on Dec 17, 2006 11:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.
GregATL
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Post by GregATL »

Ken, just wanted to thank you for sharing all this. I can only imagine the frustration you must have felt through all of this. Nice job on keeping records too. Looking forward to the next installment.
Velocewest
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Post by Velocewest »

This is like a serial novel for gear heads... :up:
a
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Post by a »

Velocewest wrote:This is like a serial novel for gear heads... :up:
Truth is better than fiction. It reminds me a lot of Tom Yang's Ferrari resto website, only better. Keep it up Ken, I am hooked bigtime. Also mulling over your idea for a triple 5 rally. .......... Hmmmn, .What would the Borman6 need to run this? :rofl:
booker
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Post by booker »

a wrote: Also mulling over your idea for a triple 5 rally. .......... Hmmmn, .What would the Borman6 need to run this? :rofl:
A quart of oil, a carton of smokes, and some luck? ;)

It could be the modern day e28 "Tortoise and the Hare". :rofl:
Ken H. wrote:
The next chapter covers what Paul finds as the pieces get scrutinized and we get ready for assembly. ;)
:popcorn:
Last edited by booker on Dec 21, 2006 1:33 AM, edited 2 times in total.
m.olennick
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Post by m.olennick »

wow. wow. wow.

i can't quite grasp all of the concepts and terms here but i sure do love the content.
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