So THIS is what a turbo M30 should feel like!!!

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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Kyle in NO
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So THIS is what a turbo M30 should feel like!!!

Post by Kyle in NO »

I was getting really pissed at my TCD 533i lately. Generally running okaaaaay, but it has always been way too jumpy and wheezy off boost. On boost it usually felt fine, but over 5k rpm it began to have detonation problems almost immediately after putting the whole thing together shortly before 5er Fest '06. As of late, I was sure something had to be done, as it simply was not an enjoyable car to drive. Fast, yes generally. But drivability was terrible, and you had to pilot it just so...otherwise you looked like it was your first day driving a stick! Not smooth or linear by any stretch of the imagination. I thought it was just my Franken-motor and its low compression and turbo, combined with the Motronic's inability to adapt for all these variables.

I remedied a few minor problems, like a flaky TPS and gutted the questionable catalytic converter, which turned out to be fine, but oh well....who needs a cat anyway? Drivability improved, and I knew I was on the right track, but still everything was not right in hairdryer M30 land.

Anyway, after consulting with Todd (many times...thanks for the patience bro), we concluded that the air/fuel ratio I was seeing under boost was too lean and likely the source of my detonation (all I was really worried about at the time). Tried adjusting the FMU and AFM and dancing a jig while summoning the dark spirits in the driveway, but nothing worked...and the old lady next door was staring at me. Nothing I did would get it to fatten up above 5k where I was having the problem.

I installed a fuel pressure gauge on the line so that I could monitor the situation while driving, and sure enough, as the RPM climbed the fuel pressure started dropping. From 60 psi or so down to about 40-45 at 5500! :shock: Not good. I now knew that I had a fuel delivery issue of some sort. I had a new filter on it, stock BMW main pump that looked remarkably new, and the 255 lph in-tank pump from the TCD kit. Everything should be fine, but it was not...

First thing I went to check was the in-tank pump, as I had a hunch that when I installed it, I may have positioned it too low, mashing the pickup filter sock against the bottom of the tank and restricted the flow. When I pulled that bad boy outta there, I was shocked to say the least. The sock was fine, but the damn pump was basically not even connected to the fuel line! There is a piece of rubber hose that connects the pump itself to the pickup assembly, and that bastard had split right down the middle and peeled away, basically allowing the fuel to just shoot out of the pump, through air space, and hopefully land somewhere near the pickup tube to maybe make its way to the engine! Doh! :x AND the fuel that it actually was getting was completely aerated when the fuel dropped below half a tank! :x :x :x It was completely my fault, and I had just jammed it on there and clamped it too tight and I was in a hurry at the time. I should have done it right the first time, which included modifying the pump itself to make it seat well.

Well, I had another rubber hose from a shot in-tank pump I had lying around, and I trimmed and installed that. Plugged the ECU back in, cranked it up, and my jaw dropped. It has NEVER idled this well since it was built! Sweeeet. Took it for a drive, and WHOA! Now this is what I'm talking about! All of the drivability problems I had are now gooooooone! Nice and smooth, and even faster! I can break the tires loose in an extra gear now! Too cool. That hose had been busted since Day 1 ( or 2 or 3 or whatever). 10,000 miles of mostly trouble-free driving like that. Amazing. Can't believe it ran as well as it did...

Sometimes its the stupid small things that throw you off.

Oh, and BTW, it ran a 14.2 @ 102mph at the track in this condition. :shock: Can't wait to run it again, I'm sure it will be in the 13s....
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Welcome to my world brother.

I am very happy for you as I know what it is like to struggle with the gremlin monster.
russc
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Post by russc »

Putting this stuff together can be trickier than it looks. The mechanical portion of these systems if very sensitive, and needs care taken when installing or R&R.

I keep arguing that this stuff isn't for everyone. While you can do it, to do it right the first time and the second, third....can be touchy. Then debugging the wrong stuff is the hardest.

You did well though, sounds like the car is sweet.

RussC
Tammer in Philly
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Post by Tammer in Philly »

Does that mean I get to drive it again, you know, to re-evaluate? ;-)

-tammer
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Sure Tammer, just get me drunk and steal the keys....
M3fan4eva
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Post by M3fan4eva »

Congratulations. I like to hear stories like that! Glad to see it's running good!
M3fan4eva
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Post by M3fan4eva »

FYI.

I had a similar stupid problem on my M30 prior to turbo…where on acceleration AND coasting the car had major hesitation. The RPM would drop and quickly fluctuate. The car would jolt forward like the whole engine died for a split second then came back to life. I couldn’t rev it without it skipping and I was getting really frustrated. I checked for spark, for fuel delivery, NOTHING was out of the ordinary. I also heard a grinding sound from the front of the engine every time it’s idling or slowly revving. So I think to myself, “damn, I think that the timing chain is either loose or skipped a tooth or whatever”

To first address the hesitation problem, I finally decided to check the ECU and when I took it out, it smelled disgusting, like burnt insulation. (I’m sure some of us are familiar with that smell). I saw a whole wire in the ECU that was burnt from a diode all the way to an opposing resistor. I thought it was the chip that I had put in, so I replaced it with the regular stock chip and bought a good used ECU. Plugged it back in and still hesitated! I was getting really frustrated now. I checked for spark and fuel delivery and all systems seemed to be fine.

I’m like, “I give up”, and decided to take the front end of my M30 apart to change the timing chain because what else could it have been?? Maybe the chain skipped a link or something. That would explain the noise and the hesitation (kind of). Get this. As I start removing parts like the water pump, radiator, I get to my crank sensor on the front flywheel. It was loose as a goose! So loose that I can take it out by hand. It was actually so loose that it was grinding on the teeth of the flywheel.

That explained the grinding noise I could hear on idle and slow revving.

That explained the burnt out ECU from apparent grounding of the inductor on the sensor.

That clearly explained the hesitation because of a bad signal from the sensor.


All in all, interesting experience and an expensive fix ($110 for just the sensor)
Boru
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Post by Boru »

M3fan4eva,

Got any pictures of the motor mount in place? I'm curious to see how my building to a point in space worked out.

Thanks,
Sweeney
M3fan4eva
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Post by M3fan4eva »

Sweeny, it works and fits perfectly! I told todd that I will give you guys pictures in the next month. I'm still tuning and installing and when I get all of that ironed out, I'll send you detailed pictures. It fits and looks great. Thanks
Boru
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Post by Boru »

Great! Have fun with it!
robeyff
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Post by robeyff »

Hey Kyle,
Since I'm putting together the 533i from the ground up, I'm thinking this might be a fun idea.

What other modifications were needed besides the TCD equipment?

I assume this wouldn't be worth it without a 3.46 diff.; I've got 2 3.25s :?

Any tips you could give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Duke
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Post by Duke »

robeyff wrote:I assume this wouldn't be worth it without a 3.46 diff.; I've got 2 3.25s :?
Go with one of the 3.25's. The 3.46 will be too low a gear. I have a 3.25 and 1st is worthless and I can spin 2nd easily. I am thinking about putting a 3.07 in it.
Skeen
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Post by Skeen »

Duke M535ti wrote:
robeyff wrote:I assume this wouldn't be worth it without a 3.46 diff.; I've got 2 3.25s :?
Go with one of the 3.25's. The 3.46 will be too low a gear. I have a 3.25 and 1st is worthless and I can spin 2nd easily. I am thinking about putting a 3.07 in it.
Ditto. Turbos like tall gears. I've even considered a 2.93--still have the stock 3.25 for now.
robeyff
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Post by robeyff »

Duke M535ti wrote:
robeyff wrote:I assume this wouldn't be worth it without a 3.46 diff.; I've got 2 3.25s :?
Go with one of the 3.25's. The 3.46 will be too low a gear. I have a 3.25 and 1st is worthless and I can spin 2nd easily. I am thinking about putting a 3.07 in it.
Thanks, one less thing to buy. I was talking to Todd on the phone the other day and he said he's never broken a stock BMW half-shaft so I'm not worried about those.

What specifically needs beefing up drivetrain/suspension wise to help the E28 handle the Turbo power? I'm prob. going to end up replacing every front and rear rubber bushing/mount with H. Duty - anything else to pay attention to?

Thanks!
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

My car has the following:

B34 M30 bottom end with B35 cylinder head and cam
B35 intake and throttle body
059 Motronic and harness and AFM from an E28 535i
260/6 Getrag trans and driveshaft from 86 and up 535i/is
3.46 LSD diff
TCD S1 non-intercooled turbo kit
Full TCD exhaust system
LM-1 wideband setup

That's it....really. No oil cooler...no intercooler. Stock cooling system and gauges. It really doesn't need to be overkill, and the engine is basically disposable. I pulled it off a shelf at work where it had been sitting unprotected with the head off for about 8-10 years. :shock: I took a screwdriver and air gun and chiseled all of the mud dauber nests out of the water passages, and sanded the rust off of the cylinder walls with WD-40 and some emory cloth. :laugh: Runs like a sewing machine and doesn't burn oil...gotta love junkyard parts. If it ever blows up, I can build another one for under $500. Try that with an S38!
Last edited by Kyle in NO on Jan 23, 2007 8:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

E34 M5 Guibo with bolt set.
robeyff
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Post by robeyff »

Thanks - I've never experienced the problems I always heard concerning the the 260/5 transmission (of which I have 2), so unless a 260/6 is absolutely a must I guess I'll really see what they're made of - if they can't take it - oh well.
robeyff
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Post by robeyff »

One more thing - sorry, really picking y'alls brains - any ECU stuff I need to know - can't plug a chip into a 008 but I suppose I could solder one if needed.
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

There are 008 ECUs with removable chips, but good luck finding a chip to plug in there. That is why I swapped in the B34 electronics. Easy and effective.
robeyff
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Post by robeyff »

Kyle in NO wrote:There are 008 ECUs with removable chips, but good luck finding a chip to plug in there. That is why I swapped in the B34 electronics. Easy and effective.
Thanks, makes sense. Time to go shopping.
Rich Euro M5
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Post by Rich Euro M5 »

robeyff wrote:Thanks - I've never experienced the problems I always heard concerning the the 260/5 transmission (of which I have 2), so unless a 260/6 is absolutely a must I guess I'll really see what they're made of - if they can't take it - oh well.
Frank,

Sell the 260/5 transmissions and upgrade to a 260/6 or a 265. If you turbo the 533i the stock 533i clutch / pressure plate will not be up to the task. The only upgrade I know of is the uber expensive Sachs Sport Clutch kit.

Rich
T_C_D
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Re: So THIS is what a turbo M30 should feel like!!!

Post by T_C_D »

Kyle in NO wrote:
Oh, and BTW, it ran a 14.2 @ 102mph at the track in this condition. :shock: Can't wait to run it again, I'm sure it will be in the 13s....
Is the track still open? Run it while the weather is cool!

Todd
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Every Wednesday night when its not raining...Test-N-Tune...

They don't close tracks here in the winter dude! Jeez...its not like we get any snow or anything...
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

Kyle in NO wrote:Every Wednesday night when its not raining...Test-N-Tune...

They don't close tracks here in the winter dude! Jeez...its not like we get any snow or anything...
Go tonight!
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

LOL, nah not tonight. I'm studying for some classes next week in Houston. Probably some time in the next month though. My buddy has his RX7 Turbo II done and we need to run that too...
booker
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Post by booker »

I'm gonna run the 535i, too. I'll rip off a blistering 16.5 and put you guys to shame.
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

Oh pleese lawd..go easy on me with the Shwarz Snail...
booker
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Post by booker »

I'll go easy on you...

WHEN I TOW YOU HOME!!! :rofl:
Kyle in NO
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Post by Kyle in NO »

To quote a funny sawng:

"And dat would be the funniest part of all...cause gurl you know you caint spell..."

You know you aint got no trailer hitch on there!
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