Stand alone ECU users.............IAT sensor Information

[Duke]

I noticed during data logging that may IAT readings were very slow to change. For example, after three hard WOT pulls, the IAT would creep up after they were over and I was driving normal. So I started to do some research into a faster reacting sensor.

Here is the one I had installed that electromotive sent me -

It has a Thermal Time Constant: ** 60 sec

I asked some questions on Bimmer Forums and with some google searches found this one -

Fast-Response GM Delphi / Packard Intake Air Temperature Sensor ( IAT / MAT / ACT ) or Manifold Air Temperature Sensor # 25036751 , "Thermal Time Constant: **< 15 sec" Which is 300% faster.

I found it here - Click here

Both sensors have the exact resistance vs. temp curves -



I received the new sensor last night and it took 10 seconds to install it. I did a datd log this morning on the way to work. The air temp in in the 70's. It is MUCH quicker than the other. I actually saw a 9 degree C change in a WOT 3rd gear pull at 12 psi. My IAT ran from 30 C ,starting the car, to a high of 59 C. I will be installing a 11 X 11 heat exchanger in the next two weeks and will be looking for a spot to install the second HE from the s2 kit. That will increase the HE ability by 300% from what I have now.

Bottom line is, this sensor is a must for all of you running a stand alone ECU that uses GM sensors. It was $14

[altus22]

The GM one is the one B&G, the Megasquirt folks, recommend.

edit: The open air GM sensor...

[Duke]

The GM one is the one B&G, the Megasquirt folks, recommend.

They are actually both GM. The fast responce sensor is also the one pcitured on the Electromotive web page. I don't know why they sent me the sloww-ass one.

[altus22]

Does the one they sent you have a plastic shell around the sensor piece? If it is, that's even slower than the metal encapluated one for coolant that is recommended for MS.

[T_C_D]

Yep, been using the "new" one. I remember telling you that yours wasn't working correctly after viewing the datalogs and you thought it was the location.

[rundatrack]

Yep, been using the "new" one. I remember telling you that yours wasn't working correctly after viewing the datalogs and you thought it was the location.

Todd


Why doesnt duke listen to someone who has a financial and company interest in seeing his turbo project go as smooth and trouble free as possible..

[Duke]

Yep, been using the "new" one. I remember telling you that yours wasn't working correctly after viewing the datalogs and you thought it was the location.

Todd


Why doesnt duke listen to someone who has a financial and company interest in seeing his turbo project go as smooth and trouble free as possible..

Nope, this is not that case smart ass.........................Todd told me that the location of the sensor was bad, which it was. I had it in the cold start jet location. I LEFT IT THERE because it was to hard to remove and ordered a new one. I mounted the new one in the intake tube after the intercooler and before the throttle body (a perfect location). SO I DID FOLLOW TODD's INSTRUCTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS as I always do. And I remember telling you Todd about the new sensor and new location it was in.

As it turns out, the sensor sent to me was not the best one.........and thus the reason for this thread.

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow. Including Todd's excessively short memory.

[T_C_D]

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow.

Your discovery is common knowledge. Anyone using MS could have told you what sensor to use.

[Duke]

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow.

Your discovery is common knowledge. Anyone using MS could have told you what sensor to use.

I don't use a MS.

[rundatrack]

Yep, been using the "new" one. I remember telling you that yours wasn't working correctly after viewing the datalogs and you thought it was the location.

Todd


Why doesnt duke listen to someone who has a financial and company interest in seeing his turbo project go as smooth and trouble free as possible..

Nope, this is not that case smart ass.........................Todd told me that the location of the sensor was bad, which it was. I had it in the cold start jet location. I LEFT IT THERE because it was to hard to remove and ordered a new one. I mounted the new one in the intake tube after the intercooler and before the throttle body (a perfect location). SO I DID FOLLOW TODD's INSTRUCTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS as I always do. And I remember telling you Todd about the new sensor and new location it was in.

As it turns out, the sensor sent to me was not the best one.........and thus the reason for this thread.

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow. Including Todd's excessively short memory.

Its not a smart ass comment

I have been just watching how your build has come along ...the pitfalls and the victories....

Its all a learning process....but your situation is very unique to say the least but you didnt do a MS Ecu package....

Lets hope the e36 doesnt put a can a wup arse on ya.

[m.olennick]

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow. Including Todd's excessively short memory.

Me too. The work done to your car is amazing, without exception -- your taste in modifications is exquisite but quite frankly, you are nothing more than a troll; additionally most of your remarks towards Todd (or anyone posing questions about your build) are that of a cunt. Extrapolating these two figures and with the aid of basic addition I have been able to yield two possible usernames for you Duke.

Troll + Cunt = TrollCunt

However we mustn't forget since we are limited to basic addition, the order in which the independent values is added does not affect the math; yielding the second possible result.

Cunt + Troll = CuntTroll

There you have it Duke, your new, appropriate and custom-tailored username possibilities -- you choose.

[Andy335Touring]

That first IAT sensor is weird, mine that came with my Emerald ECU is similar to the second one.

[Duke]

Its all a learning process....but your situation is very unique to say the least but you didnt do a MS Ecu package

I went with the TEC3 at least a year or more before TCD offered a stand alone option. At that time the MS was not an option to me because I was not going to build one. I had had plenty of experience with the Motronic and piggy back computers and knew I would not go that route with a FI application.

Additional info - the first sensor I installed in the Cold start location of the manifold was an open element type, so the location was bad due to shrouding. When I ordered the second from Electromotive and received the shielded one, I call them and asked about the difference. I was told it would perform the same, which was BS. BTW - Electromotive charged 3X for the second sensor than what the posted web page does. So not only did they give my incorrect information about the sensor but the overcharged me for it too.

I am pretty certain Gordon isn't a troll.

I think the "troll" was refering to me and not Gordon.

[DMNaskale]

I never thought I would be chiming in to defend Duke, he is a big boy and can take care of himself, and he invites some strong reactions with his bold ways. But I don't think he has ever meant anyone any harm and I find him to be a genuinely enthusiastic and positive member of the community. So what I am saying is, some of you guys are acting like straight up assholes in the way you insist upon making personal insults without any kind of justification. If you don't like the way Duke expresses himself, then don't read the fucking posts. I don't want to read your bullshit when I am seeing what Duke is up to. I may not always agree with what he has to say, but it is always interesting and entertaining. If I have nothing positive to add, I try to keep it to myself, and I rarely take anything personally or give it. Some of you guys need to check yourselves, and think about what your motivation is to make such nasty posts.

[Skeen]

I went with the TEC3 at least a year or more before TCD offered a stand alone option. At that time the MS was not an option to me because I was not going to build one. I had had plenty of experience with the Motronic and piggy back computers and knew I would not go that route with a FI application.

Out of curiosity, did you consider a pre-assembled MS kit at the start of your build when you were looking at the TEC3? Just wondering if not wanting to build your own was the only thing that turned you off of it. If not, what was it that justified the extra cost of the TEC3? (This is an innocent question, do not read anything into it)

[rundatrack]

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow. Including Todd's excessively short memory.

Me too. The work done to your car is amazing, without exception -- your taste in modifications is exquisite but quite frankly, you are nothing more than a troll; additionally most of your remarks towards Todd (or anyone posing questions about your build) are that of a cunt. Extrapolating these two figures and with the aid of basic addition I have been able to yield two possible usernames for you Duke.

Troll + Cunt = TrollCunt

However we mustn't forget since we are limited to basic addition, the order in which the independent values is added does not affect the math; yielding the second possible result.

Cunt + Troll = CuntTroll

There you have it Duke, your new, appropriate and custom-tailored username possibilities -- you choose.

No need for name calling my friend

Sometimes things happen that seem a little course on the board.....

But there are a lot of great things and people that contribute.

Duke shares everything...which with that exposure you do question a lot of things.

But its on the sender as well...I have put up a picture of a friend of mines m535i and thought it was a real euro package and it wasnt...duke pointed it out...I could have gotten ticked off but for what....He was right...and I told him that

[rundatrack]

Its all a learning process....but your situation is very unique to say the least but you didnt do a MS Ecu package

I went with the TEC3 at least a year or more before TCD offered a stand alone option. At that time the MS was not an option to me because I was not going to build one. I had had plenty of experience with the Motronic and piggy back computers and knew I would not go that route with a FI application.

Additional info - the first sensor I installed in the Cold start location of the manifold was an open element type, so the location was bad due to shrouding. When I ordered the second from Electromotive and received the shielded one, I call them and asked about the difference. I was told it would perform the same, which was BS. BTW - Electromotive charged 3X for the second sensor than what the posted web page does. So not only did they give my incorrect information about the sensor but the overcharged me for it too.

I am pretty certain Gordon isn't a troll.

I think the "troll" was refering to me and not Gordon.

I dont know where that came from Duke..but the only thing that makes me nervous about your project is that you started doing your tune yourself.

DYI with that much money as you had in your system just seemed careless to a degree. You did have a HG failure that saved everything..That head machining issue

You are very quick to experiment which is a good thing....Just dont want your great build to blow up because ya found a cool feature and implemented it wrong..


I dont name call .....


Get that final dyno sheet up soon so we can see how much power ya going to get

I think the tops is 400rwhp with the young gentleman that has the e34.

I do think that his setup has a lot more power in it....maybe if he changed the cam he would get a lot more hp...

g

[Duke]

First off - thanks DMNaskale and rundatrack for the kinds word and encouragement.

I do try to post just about everything to do with my exploits; some are good some are bad. The reason is to save YOU, the other board members, from the wrong turns and mistakes I have made. It is also to point you in the right direction too. Needless to say, when and if I sell the car, the buyer will know everything about it. That is for sure.

but the only thing that makes me nervous about your project is that you started doing your tune yourself.

It was a decision that I had no choice in. My supposed support for the TEC3 was Henry Lawrence ot The Power Plant in NC who I bought the TEC3 from and he proved to be of no help in getting the car running once the system was installed. Remember, I was in Germany at the time. I could not find any German who knew what a TEC3 was much less tune it. So I dove into the manuals and learned how to tune it. I got the car running well enough to get it on a ship and back to the states. Once back here I had learned enough and with some demonstrations from TCD in Ohio, learned that the tuning was not that difficult for a 70-80% tuned car. The real difficulty is in the last 10-20% of perfecting the tune. That’s where I am now.

Out of curiosity, did you consider a pre-assembled MS kit at the start of your build when you were looking at the TEC3? Just wondering if not wanting to build your own was the only thing that turned you off of it. If not, what was it that justified the extra cost of the TEC3?

When I was looking at a stand alone, MS was not near as advanced as it has become of late. The MS did not have ignition control so that made it a non player from the start. I went with TEC3 because it was a proven system with great success in running very high HP cars. I had decided on going with a TEC3 before TCD even developed his s1 kit. I was going to TEC3 the NA engine and try to squeeze 20-30 HP more out of it. Well Todd comes along with the turbo and I am off seeking the huge HP goal.

[Skeen]

So then, when did you get the TEC3? MS has been strong for many years now even if it's only been the last year or two that it's been popular on E28s. There has been ignition support for quite a while with MSnSE. It's kinda irrelevant at this point I guess, just wondering.

[Duke]

So then, when did you get the TEC3?

The invoice from its purchase dates 11 Oct 2004.

[robeyff]

I too wonder why I still post information for the benefit of this board because of all of the stupid ass comments that always follow. Including Todd's excessively short memory.

Me too. The work done to your car is amazing, without exception -- your taste in modifications is exquisite but quite frankly, you are nothing more than a troll; additionally most of your remarks towards Todd (or anyone posing questions about your build) are that of a cunt. Extrapolating these two figures and with the aid of basic addition I have been able to yield two possible usernames for you Duke.

Troll + Cunt = TrollCunt

However we mustn't forget since we are limited to basic addition, the order in which the independent values is added does not affect the math; yielding the second possible result.

Cunt + Troll = CuntTroll

There you have it Duke, your new, appropriate and custom-tailored username possibilities -- you choose.

Yet another argument for preventing those with no social graces from having access to a dictionary.

[robeyff]

Sigh - I just received the following PM from m.olenick (see above).

I rest my case - no dictionaries for the socially feeble.

You are an utter and incompetent tool. The only social grace you've become accostumed to is that of your friends and family leaving you.

Don't step in trying to defend Duke. That capricious cock knows nothing more than how to argue -- even with those who make the trade their business.

Thanks for a useless opinion; in the future I'll be sure to appropriately label you within the clique of ass-faggots such as Duke.

[m.olennick]

Sigh - I just received the following PM from m.olenick (see above).

I rest my case - no dictionaries for the socially feeble.

WOW. Apparently you need to be taking a page from your own book since you are taking a topic off course. Go ram some ass.

[robeyff]

Sigh - I just received the following PM from m.olenick (see above).

I rest my case - no dictionaries for the socially feeble.

WOW. Apparently you need to be taking a page from your own book since you are taking a topic off course. Go ram some ass.

All bullshit aside, you normally do not get this worked up over stuff on the board.

Let's let it go - everybody has a bad day.

[Duke]

All bullshit aside, you normally do not get this worked up over stuff on the board.

This guy has had some bad times I am afraid Robryff.

He is 22 years old and is located in the Portland Area most of the time. He lives at Fisher's Landing in Vanncouver.

He works in the very dismal IT industry. He had aspiration to start and run a business called Circle Orange which has failed. His web site www.circleorange.com is a dead link.

He has a E28 535is that he really wanted to turbocharge but due to the failed business, and bad pay in the IT industry can not afford too. Recently, he has had a lot of personal items for sale due to needing money for bills. I think that envy of others in better financial situations has really tainted his view.

We should give this poor soul a break. Hang in there MJ, it will get better

Fee free to call or write him with encouragement - (360) 608 7460 or email: m.olennick@comcast.net

[m.olennick]

I'm really nothing more than a bored child. See what I found when entering m.olennick in google???

Thanks for the research Mr. Internet Detective. Unfortunately you forgot to mention that my item for sale are those specifically not needed for the purposes intended with my e28. or that they are the best products in the market.

Regardless, how are 12" subwoofers going to aid in my effort to run on the track, or even the amp to power them? I could have advertised them here, but German regulations for automakers during the mid-80's to early 90's required all automobiles to have a trunk sealed from the cabin.

The biggest problem I am facing with my turbo build-up is locating a nice 745 block. Quite frankly I've waiting posting anything about my car until I truly have something worthy of sharing. I hate post whores whom everyday are flooding the forums with their "teasers," or "competitions" (reference bimmerforums.)

That website you speak of -- I believe is for web storage. I'm sure you would have a few fronts up and running if you could get space as cheaply as I did. Thanks for allowing me to chat.

[turbodan]

I actually like to see regular follow ups and updates. That kind of activity beats a forum with only a few new posts every few weeks. I do like the suggestion to simply not read these posts if they make you so angry. Simple enough.