My take on stock cooling systems!

[Rich Euro M5]

I could do that, but then I would have to drain and refill the system in the winter. Since I don't care to mess around with the cooling system I'll run a mixture.

You are also not FI. It is well worth the 30 minutes to do it for the FI application.

True, I'm not FI but I also believe the E28 radiator is marginal at best. My previous DD was a turbo car and it NEVER overheated. The radiator in my Turbo Brick was as large as the E28 radiator for a 2.3 Liter engine. The Brick was also factory equipped with a oil cooler.

Rich

[M635CSi]

This makes perfect sense since straight water has better heat transfer characteristics than a glycol/water mixture. According to the Zerex temp charts (15 psi cap) a 70/30 mix is good for -84F to 276F, 60/40 -62F to 270 F, 50/50 -34F to 265F. Therefore for typical Houston Texas year round temps I could probably run a 40/60 blend with a 15 psi cap and improve cooling efficiency.

Rich

I see no reason not to run straight distilled water with Red line "water wetter" for corrosion protection in the spring/summer and fall.

Hindsight is better than foresight... running straight (distilled) water during the heat of summer has been known to result in cracked heater cores; YMMV.

Installing a higher pressure radiator cap will not improve the efficacy of a properly designed and maintained cooling system although specifying a higher pressure cap may be part of a properly designed cooling system. The moment a turbocharger is installed on an otherwise stock engine, the cooling system is no longer properly designed. The fact that some (most?) of our cars don’t apparently overheat after installing a turbocharger is not particularly relevant. The reason(s) one car overheats after installing a turbo and another doesn’t may simply be geographic location or core shift when the cylinder head was cast. There’s a reason BMW engineers specified a larger radiator, higher pressure cooling system and oil squirters for the E23 745 (at 7lbs of boost) and it wasn’t because that was the day the accountants had off.

You pays your money and you makes your choice… either take a system wide approach to engineering and bite the (financial) bullet at the beginning or risk good money after bad as you continually patch what was your initially poor work product.

Everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die…

[Duke]

running straight (distilled) water during the heat of summer has been known to result in cracked heater cores; YMMV.

Why, examples?

either take a system wide approach to engineering and bite the (financial) bullet at the beginning or risk good money after bad as you continually patch what was your initially poor work product.

WTF are you talking about now? Stop being so cryptic and due tell us what a "system wide approach" is. And what is this "poor work product" you speak of?


I see a system wide approach is what we have been discussing - Skeen has found a 50% larger radiator that will fit. I think that that radiator with modifications for mounting brackets, coolant tank fitting and radiator cap delete will work great. Looking at water pumps, the E34 M5 3.8 has a pump that is 4X the cost of the M30 pump. Some research needs to be done to figure out if it does pump more water or if the price is just a ///M thing. Delete the fan and replace with one or two (offset) electric fans, a 20 lb cap and a 71 C thermostat and I think that would be a very robust cooling system for the FI M30 running 15+ psi of boost. You know my approach on the intercooler issue.

[rob6118]

I believe all you did is properly bleed the system. Anti-freeze will not have that much effect in the amount you are talking about. You just had air in the system.


EDIT - my bad, I thought you meant 1/2 a coolant tank not 1/2 gallon of anti-freeze.

Nope I had all sorts of fun bleeding the system (see my thread about new radiator temp fan switches). The system was bled but as someone attested to as well 50/50 vs 60/40 appears to make a fair amount of difference.

I'm not FI though, but as far as when I do Turbo, I think that is why I want to get the Stage 2 with the intercooler. I would much rather do it right and use an intercooler to decrease the heat of the inducted air, then to place additional load on my OEM cooling system and potentially reengineer it.

So far I'm pretty impressed with the cooling system. I think people's marginal opinion of it is probably based on poorly maintained 20 year old systems. Most cooling systems I have need major work after 5 years, def. after 10 years.

I think the system could easily handle the extra load of the turbo if its in good shape (completely new like mine) but I'm still gonna go for the stage 2.

On a side after removing the washers that I used on my coolant temp sensors (used Teflon tape to seal them instead) not only is my temp cluster gauge more reliable (no flicker) but the engine runs smoother. Before hand I would be in WOT and would feel little surges at 4-6k rpm almost like I was going from 100% to 95% throttle and back again. I guess the iffy ground connection of those three sensors caused it because it no longer occurs.

Rob

PS Sorry for bringing a thread alive again. Don't hold me responsible for any pissing matches involving m635.......

[Wiseguy]

I've got customers with 500+ WHP E36 M3s running huge boost and stock cooling systems. Never an issue unless some other problem manifests itself.

[Duke]

I've got customers with 500+ WHP E36 M3s running huge boost and stock cooling systems. Never an issue unless some other problem manifests itself.

E36 M3's do not have the same cooling system as our 80's E28. Apples to Oranges.

[M635CSi]

running straight (distilled) water during the heat of summer has been known to result in cracked heater cores; YMMV.

Why,

Freezing the heater core causes the water within to expand and split it open.

examples?

Cars with the heater core mounted directly after the AC evaporator in the air stream. Some GM cars are like this among others. Call or write to Red Line if you want more examples:

Red Line Synthetic Oil Corporation
6100 Egret Court
Benicia, CA 94510
PHONE: (707) 745-6100 or (800) 624-7958
FAX: (707) 745-3214

either take a system wide approach to engineering and bite the (financial) bullet at the beginning or risk good money after bad as you continually patch what was your initially poor work product.

WTF are you talking about now? Stop being so cryptic and due tell us what a "system wide approach" is. And what is this "poor work product" you speak of?

A system wide approach to engineering (the word and activity you’ve left out) is a “good plan.” When I refer to a systems approach I mean not fighting the last war (fixing your car) when you’re trying to win the current war – getting a reliable M30 to make 500 or 600 horsepower. All in, your car is a pretty poor work product; after numerous engine rebuilds it’s still unreliable, it still overheats and its still breaking down…Houston, we’ve got a problem.

To your credit, you continue to make violent frontal assaults on each and every problem you encounter; probably why I still like hearing about your exploits.

Being a military man you’re no doubt familiar with the saying “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.” - Gen. George S. Patton. Its noteworthy Patton didn’t say “A shitty plan…” he said a “good plan…” You’ve got the violent part pretty much down pat, now just upgrade from shitty plans to good plans and you’ll be all set – non cryptic enough?

I see a system wide approach is what we have been discussing - Skeen has found a 50% larger radiator that will fit. I think that that radiator with modifications for mounting brackets, coolant tank fitting and radiator cap delete will work great.

It does seem Skeen has found a good radiator to reduce coolant temperatures in his car and at a good price; I applaud that. However, addressing an overheating problem with a car is not the same as a systems approach to engineering a 500 or 600 horsepower M30 engine which, if I’m understanding correctly, is what you want your car to produce.

Looking at water pumps, the E34 M5 3.8 has a pump that is 4X the cost of the M30 pump. Some research needs to be done to figure out if it does pump more water or if the price is just a ///M thing.

Good example of how BMW takes a systems approach to engineering their products. They certainly could have bolted the M30 pump to the S38 engine but decided to specify one more suited to the operating parameters of the four valve engine. You will find, I suspect, that the S38 (and M88) engines use water pumps with, at minimum, different bearings. When what is needed for a high output turbocharged M30 is higher coolant volume through the engine. The S38/M88 engines can sink more thermal load than the M30 engine even with the same water pump and radiator.

Delete the fan and replace with one or two (offset) electric fans, a 20 lb cap and a 71 C thermostat and I think that would be a very robust cooling system for the FI M30 running 15+ psi of boost. You know my approach on the intercooler issue.

How did you arrive at the conclusion a 20 lb cap and 71 C thermostat is what’s needed? Why not a 100 lb cap, a 20 C thermostat and a reeeeeally foookin BIG radiator?

Don’t just give an answer, show your work; how did you arrived at which cap and thermostat to use?

[cgraff]

Looking at water pumps, the E34 M5 3.8 has a pump that is 4X the cost of the M30 pump. Some research needs to be done to figure out if it does pump more water or if the price is just a ///M thing.

Good example of how BMW takes a systems approach to engineering their products. They certainly could have bolted the M30 pump to the S38 engine but decided to specify one more suited to the operating parameters of the four valve engine. You will find, I suspect, that the S38 (and M88) engines use water pumps with, at minimum, different bearings. When what is needed for a high output turbocharged M30 is higher coolant volume through the engine. The S38/M88 engines can sink more thermal load than the M30 engine even with the same water pump and radiator.

Actually, even though the S38 B38/B36 water pump is different than the M88/S38 B35 part, which is different than the M30 part for the water pump, there is no difference in the interface between any of them to the block (obvious, but checked nonetheless via the gasket PN). Another interesting 'but' is the rotor vane is the same S38 B38 thru to the M30 in all water pumps. So there is no difference there in terms of more coolant volume. I honestly don't trust 100% the cross-referencing in the realoem.com, but this seems to hold up (I want to check on my ETK at home).

There could be differences in diameter of the hose end of the water pump, as well as its physical location (because for instance the S38 B38 used a different t-stat housing than the S35/M88s, or even the M30s). That could cause the casing to be different PNs, as well as there could very well be differences in the bearings used.

Additionally, the water pump pulley is actually a different diameter in the B35 vs B34 motors for the M30s (as well as within the B35 motors there were two different pulleys), which *could* cause the pump to spin at different rpm (*clearly* would have to investigate any difference in the diameter of the main hub pulley to validate, but nonetheless, there is a difference that warrants further ETK investigation here). This also means that the S38 B36-B38 pulleys could also be different diameters as well. So....one ought to investigate these differences as well, to verify exactly what was happening.

[Duke]

Holy crap, nice rebuttal M635CSi.

The water in the heater core of a E28 has 0 chance or freezing in the spring and summer months where I drive my car. 100% distilled water it is.

As far as my engine being a poor work product. I have only to look to the two botched rebuilds for the cause. The "poor" product will soon be remedied for good by an engine builder I completely trust. 3rd time is a charm. That being said, the engine does not over heat and other than pre Paul Burke head install head gasket failures, has been very reliable.

Cap - E23 745i has a 20 lb cap which as you have pointed out was engineered by BMW for a FI M30 application.

Thermostat - lower the temp of opening seems to work better in warmer climates.

Being a military man you’re no doubt familiar with the saying “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.” - Gen. George S. Patton. Its noteworthy Patton didn’t say “A shitty plan…” he said a “good plan…” You’ve got the violent part pretty much down pat, now just upgrade from shitty plans to good plans and you’ll be all set – non cryptic enough?

Very good point and I agree. I don't believe my plans were ever shitty though, far from it (remember the ceramic coated pistons and CC in the head?). I was shit on that is for sure.

[Jeremy]

The issue with the lower temp t-stat is that it doesn't increase cooling capacity or prevent overheating, it merely delays it. IOW, you can sit in traffic a little longer before overheating because you have a bigger cushion, but if it's going to overheat, it's going to overheat regardless of t-stat chosen.

Jeremy

[Duke]

The issue with the lower temp t-stat is that it doesn't increase cooling capacity or prevent overheating, it merely delays it. IOW, you can sit in traffic a little longer before overheating because you have a bigger cushion, but if it's going to overheat, it's going to overheat regardless of t-stat chosen.

Jeremy

Correct - just as no thermostat would greatly delay an overheat. But why not have a bigger "cushion" as you put it?

[cgraff]

The issue with the lower temp t-stat is that it doesn't increase cooling capacity or prevent overheating, it merely delays it. IOW, you can sit in traffic a little longer before overheating because you have a bigger cushion, but if it's going to overheat, it's going to overheat regardless of t-stat chosen.

Jeremy

Point well taken, which is why, if you notice on newer cars, that they've been able to put in more reliable electric fans and higher temperature t-stats. The whole idea being that you want to get the engine up to temperature faster, and keep as hot as possible without overheating (better emissions, yada x3). The reliance on airflow through the radiator using aux fans is what allows this.

The newer BMWs rely far more on the aux fans than old ones. In fact, I believe the fan switch temp is a few degs lower than the 92 deg t-stat used on some M50s, M52s, M54s.

The reliance on the aux fan has led to some early E46s and E39s having overheating problems through failed aux fans. Even if your aux fan is dead in a E28 535i, if you have a properly operating stock cooling system with stock engine, you won't overheat, unless you're in the tropics.

Although why BMW aux fans fail in 90s and 00s cars is beyond me, particularly when Hondas from the 80s are still on their very reliable original aux fans, which are their *only* radiator fans.

-Chris

[Wiseguy]

I've got customers with 500+ WHP E36 M3s running huge boost and stock cooling systems. Never an issue unless some other problem manifests itself.

E36 M3's do not have the same cooling system as our 80's E28. Apples to Oranges.

Exactly.. they are complete piles of shit in comparison. Hence my point....

[Duke]

Exactly.. they are complete piles of shit in comparison. Hence my point....

I agree, the E36 M3 is.

[Wiseguy]

Exactly.. they are complete piles of shit in comparison. Hence my point....

I agree, the E36 M3 is.

That's my point. I don't recall ever hearing on here about expansion tanks routinely exploding, radiator necks constantly breaking off, thermostat housings exploding, POS Water pumps dying at 60k miles.. etc.

Show up to my shop with an E36 with the original cooling system, I'm selling you on replacing it all. BTDT too many times on these newer cars... which are POSs comparted to E28s.

[M635CSi]

Holy crap, nice rebuttal M635CSi.

The water in the heater core of a E28 has 0 chance or freezing in the spring and summer months where I drive my car. 100% distilled water it is.

Cool!

As far as my engine being a poor work product. I have only to look to the two botched rebuilds for the cause. The "poor" product will soon be remedied for good by an engine builder I completely trust. 3rd time is a charm. That being said, the engine does not over heat and other than pre Paul Burke head install head gasket failures, has been very reliable.

I hear ya Duke but I ain't buyin... You're the Captain (General) of your own ship (army) so you're responsible for the victory (and defeat) of your men. You made the choices so you're responsible for them. Being in charge means being responsible. Remember, people fall but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

Cap - E23 745i has a 20 lb cap which as you have pointed out was engineered by BMW for a FI M30 application.

Well, almost... I pointed out it was engineered by BMW as part of a low boost big radiator heavy E23 745 product. Your car is a high boost small(er) radiator, lighter M30 E28. I agree you would be well advised to bump up the cooling system pressure and go for a lower temperature thermostat. One of the benefits of a higher pressure cap is that it allows the use of a smaller radiator.

Thermostat - lower the temp of opening seems to work better in warmer climates.

Depends on what you want to do. To take maximum power out of the engine you want the lowest temperature thermostat you can get.

Being a military man you’re no doubt familiar with the saying “A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.” - Gen. George S. Patton. Its noteworthy Patton didn’t say “A shitty plan…” he said a “good plan…” You’ve got the violent part pretty much down pat, now just upgrade from shitty plans to good plans and you’ll be all set – non cryptic enough?

Very good point and I agree. I don't believe my plans were ever shitty though, far from it (remember the ceramic coated pistons and CC in the head?). I was shit on that is for sure.

Whose plan was it to source the ceramic coating from that particular vendor? Whose plan was it to purchase the original engine block and from what source? I bring this up so you can get inside of your decision loop and recognize any errors of judgment; what criteria did (do) you have for making decisions?

In life, our partners are more important that our products. Choose wisely little grasshopper…

[cgraff]

Exactly.. they are complete piles of shit in comparison. Hence my point....

I agree, the E36 M3 is.

That's my point. I don't recall ever hearing on here about expansion tanks routinely exploding, radiator necks constantly breaking off, thermostat housings exploding, POS Water pumps dying at 60k miles.. etc.

Show up to my shop with an E36 with the original cooling system, I'm selling you on replacing it all. BTDT too many times on these newer cars... which are POSs comparted to E28s.

Actually, the E28 radiator likes to chew it's necks and blow the seams between the core and side-tanks just as much as the newer ones. 100k on an E28 radiator is a long time. Well....maybe they're a little better than the new ones....I'll give them that. But when you have a TSB and repair kit on the overflow neck for the E28 radiator...you know BMW goofed on that.

Also, M30 water pumps aren't the most long-lived ones either. I have to say that the last just as long as the new M50 family style water pumps with metal impellers.

The big issue was the exploding plastic impellers on some of the M50 water pumps and the plastic t-stat housing that loves to crack after thousands of heat cycles.

I think it's really just a lot of similar issues as the early cars....the problem is that there's just a lot more of the newer cars out there and lots more people who are getting to mileages that see these problems.

[Duke]

Whose plan was it to source the ceramic coating from that particular vendor? Whose plan was it to purchase the original engine block and from what source? I bring this up so you can get inside of your decision loop and recognize any errors of judgment; what criteria did (do) you have for making decisions?

In life, our partners are more important that our products. Choose wisely little grasshopper…

Holy crap....you have been talking to my wife! Your right, it’s all my fault.

Seriously, If I have bought a brand stinking new short block from BMW, it would have cost me much, much less...................then again, hind sight you know.

[cgraff]

On another note....about the new 335i ....twin turbo factory fresh from BMW....right?

Well here's a dirty little secret. The 335i up until I believe a 2/07 or so build date with an automatic transmission did NOT come with an oil cooler. A few people have taken these cars to the track for drivers schools and found to their dismay that they overheated (alarm ringing on the i-drive if so equipped or instrument cluster, automatic shut down, the whole deal). ...some 'systems engineering' BMW did there.

The kicker is that ALL 335s in europe come with the oil cooler. Even automatics.

-Chris

[M635CSi]

On another note....about the new 335i ....twin turbo factory fresh from BMW....right?

Well here's a dirty little secret. The 335i up until I believe a 2/07 or so build date with an automatic transmission did NOT come with an oil cooler. A few people have taken these cars to the track for drivers schools and found to their dismay that they overheated (alarm ringing on the i-drive if so equipped or instrument cluster, automatic shut down, the whole deal). ...some 'systems engineering' BMW did there.

The kicker is that ALL 335s in europe come with the oil cooler. Even automatics.

-Chris

Wow, that's good information. I wonder what the "official" reasoning is for the US to receive watered down versions?

I wouldn't be too quick to blame BMW engineering though, I'll bet it was those infernal bean counters that did it.

[cgraff]

On another note....about the new 335i ....twin turbo factory fresh from BMW....right?

Well here's a dirty little secret.
-Chris

Wow, that's good information. I wonder what the "official" reasoning is for the US to receive watered down versions?

I wouldn't be too quick to blame BMW engineering though, I'll bet it was those infernal bean counters that did it.

well....they're getting mighty desperate if ONLY the US market automatics were missing the oil kuehler but all other market automatics had it.

[M635CSi]

On another note....about the new 335i ....twin turbo factory fresh from BMW....right?

Well here's a dirty little secret.
-Chris

Wow, that's good information. I wonder what the "official" reasoning is for the US to receive watered down versions?

I wouldn't be too quick to blame BMW engineering though, I'll bet it was those infernal bean counters that did it.

well....they're getting mighty desperate if ONLY the US market automatics were missing the oil kuehler but all other market automatics had it.

Maybe they don't like us anymore.

[Wiseguy]

Exactly.. they are complete piles of shit in comparison. Hence my point....

I agree, the E36 M3 is.

That's my point. I don't recall ever hearing on here about expansion tanks routinely exploding, radiator necks constantly breaking off, thermostat housings exploding, POS Water pumps dying at 60k miles.. etc.

Show up to my shop with an E36 with the original cooling system, I'm selling you on replacing it all. BTDT too many times on these newer cars... which are POSs comparted to E28s.

Actually, the E28 radiator likes to chew it's necks and blow the seams between the core and side-tanks just as much as the newer ones. 100k on an E28 radiator is a long time. Well....maybe they're a little better than the new ones....I'll give them that. But when you have a TSB and repair kit on the overflow neck for the E28 radiator...you know BMW goofed on that.

Also, M30 water pumps aren't the most long-lived ones either. I have to say that the last just as long as the new M50 family style water pumps with metal impellers.

The big issue was the exploding plastic impellers on some of the M50 water pumps and the plastic t-stat housing that loves to crack after thousands of heat cycles.

I think it's really just a lot of similar issues as the early cars....the problem is that there's just a lot more of the newer cars out there and lots more people who are getting to mileages that see these problems.

Chris,

You KNOW how many E36s I see

Having driven E28s since '92 legally and having been around them since '83 (Mom waited for the 533i to trade the 528i in...) I have done my fair share of cooling system work, but they are just nowhere near as bad as the E36s (and E46s). Hell, overall the E36s/39s/46s/38s/etc are shitboxes when compared to E28s/E24s/E30s. Look at Irene's E46.. 2000 with 115k, 3 sunroof replacements, all window regulators done, 3 t-stats, ad nauseum... Meanwhile the sunroof and regulators on the M5 all work fine and are original, and it's over 20 years old with 186k.

When I see E28s blow open 4 year old expansion tanks, 4-5 year old radiators, 30-40k mile metal impeller water pumps, ad nauseum we'll talk...... Yep, BMW OE cooling systems are crapola, and there are indeed fixes... but ask any tech, the newer the car, the bigger the problems. Recently removed a German Behr radiator (German ones are Dealer vs South African WorldPac/Ramac/IMC/SSF/etc Behrs) from a 325is... date code of '03 on it... cracked neck.

My 740iL has had SEVEN Radiators in it since I got it in 11/96. SEVEN of the damn things!

Then you have the lovely M52TUs and M54s... get them hot and you have a 6-cylinder boat anchor.... costs a fortune to fix if you even can repair the damage done from one overheating incident.

I have all those old cars for a reason

[Wiseguy]

On another note....about the new 335i ....twin turbo factory fresh from BMW....right?

Well here's a dirty little secret.
-Chris

Wow, that's good information. I wonder what the "official" reasoning is for the US to receive watered down versions?

I wouldn't be too quick to blame BMW engineering though, I'll bet it was those infernal bean counters that did it.

well....they're getting mighty desperate if ONLY the US market automatics were missing the oil kuehler but all other market automatics had it.

Someone has yet to get it through BMW AG's 6" thick skulls that we not only frequently USE our cars but that we do have far more severe driving conditions than the average European driver sees and that we also keep our cars on the road much longer than they do. The only advantage over here is that we tend to service our cars far more frequently... but then Dino oil (let alone synthetic) isn't $6/L here.

[bmw4aaron]

Then you have the lovely M52TUs and M54s... get them hot and you have a 6-cylinder boat anchor.... costs a fortune to fix if you even can repair the damage done from one overheating incident.

I have all those old cars for a reason

Overheat an M54 and its new block time. Or if your SUPER lucky just a coolant pipe on side the block.

[cgraff]

You KNOW how many E36s I see

Yes. I own one too. Out of the people I know (family/close friends) we have had 6 E36s between us. And yes, I know personally just how much crap they are. And if you were to ask me whether or not I'd want to have an E28 from x-years of age until y-years, or an E36 of exactly the same vintage, I'd pick the E28 too.

Look at Irene's E46.. 2000 with 115k, 3 sunroof replacements, all window regulators done, 3 t-stats, ad nauseum... Meanwhile the sunroof and regulators on the M5 all work fine and are original, and it's over 20 years old with 186k.

I thought we were talking cooling systems?

And you should have been there for my 1 hr diatribe with Pete (you weren't around and I stopped by to see the E28 subframe...which BTW....) about the E36 and E46 subframe floors and how BMW f-ed that up royally.

When I see E28s blow open 4 year old expansion tanks, 4-5 year old radiators, 30-40k mile metal impeller water pumps, ad nauseum we'll talk...... Yep, BMW OE cooling systems are crapola, and there are indeed fixes... but ask any tech, the newer the car, the bigger the problems.

Agreed...the more plastic they put on, the worse it got. You also have to realize...expansion tanks are now right next to the radiator...I bet you they are far hotter than the tanks on E28s, E23s, E24s, early E30s, E32s, or E34s. What kills plastic is all the heat cycling...and using plastic in a cooling system on critical pieces is inviting yourself for disaster if you don't use good plastics or have some design flaw...which it seems BMW is prone to do.

Then you have the lovely M52TUs and M54s... get them hot and you have a 6-cylinder boat anchor.... costs a fortune to fix if you even can repair the damage done from one overheating incident.

Do that to ANY all-aluminum engine and you now have an expensive boat anchor....BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota.

Oh, and speaking of Toyota, they're not much better in terms of customer care past 5 yrs of ownership. Have you heard of the 'extended maintenance interval' issue they had on the 3.0 liter V6s from late 90s into 00s? It seems they went to 7500 mile oil changes (same as Honda, BTW), but a combination of NOT requiring synthetic for those intervals and a design flaw in the oil flow leads to oil sludge on those engines, which kills the oil pump, and then the engine. Toyota WILL NOT admit to their error.

I think a lot more of this has to do with the corporate culture of the US distributors than anything else. Past 5 yrs or end of warranty: "it's not our problem, we don't want to hear about it, go away." Some corporate responsibility *that* is.

-Chris

[Jeremy]

And here I thought we were talking about cooling system performance in a forced induction m30 application . . .

Jeremy

[chrism]

No, we are proving how much smarter than BMW some of us are

And here I thought we were talking about cooling system performance in a forced induction m30 application . . .

Jeremy

[GregATL]

Todd and Sweeney here is some more stuff to chew on. Please bear in mind that I am in no way attacking you I just want you to clearly understand where I am coming from. I believe you probably already do.

I have a 100% new cooling system running 60/40 water-antifreeze mixture. If I let the car idle at a stop it will overheat severly. In fact it would climb off the gauge if I let it.Yes my fan clutch is working as at anything above 11:30 on the gauge has it whining audibly.

I noticed this the very same day I installed the S1 kit. Prior to then it would idle all day and never exceed the 12:30 position on the gauge.

I made no other changes to the car at that time.

Is it possible that I got a bum part during my cooling system overhaul? I would think not as I had no issues prior to installation of the kit.

I picked up a tropical radiator at the 5erfest swapmeet and am anxious to install it and note any differences.

Also, who, if anyone, makes a higher flow water pump just in case my radiator swap does not solve my issues?

[T_C_D]

My guess is that you have an inaccurate gauge or sending unit or too much resistance inthe wiring to give an accurate reading. Beyond that I would say you have a faulty part in the system.