Dinan M5 turbo on the bay!!

[Bryan in SB]

Now it is about group solidarity and the pitfalls of 'society'.

Come on folks, I know it's hard, but let's try. "M635CSi, we might not agree with you, but you might know a thing or two about what you're talking about...

Ohhhh, to only see the tongue tied and bitter beer faced people reading this post.

[wkohler]

I am by no means M635CSi's biggest fan - in fact, I think he is a douchebag from my online interactions with him - but after reading through thid thread, I must say, I don't know why it got to 4 pages. Sure, he's always come off as a dick with a Napoleon complex (not saying he has one - just appears to have one). However, he listed some parts for sale on eBay. BMWS38 was excited to be the high bidder, and unfortunately for him met his match against software which takes the fairness out of eBay.

Chris (if I may use your first name) provided plenty of information in his eBay listing. He provided pictures of the parts. He had all of the necessary disclaimers and we have no reason to believe he won't follow through with the transaction. I would not personally enter into a business transaction with him, but that is my business. Obviously, he has no reason to be upset, as his reserve price was met. If he didn't want the parts to sell for $1525, he'd have set the reserve higher - where he wants them to sell. That's the beauty of the reserve.

Skip, I don't see what he did again. We don't know what happened. M635CSi baits people into responding half-cocked, and then uses that against you to make you look not as smart as him, then he pulls out the "big words" to make himself look better.

Obviously, whatever negatives were brought forth did not deter BMWS38 from his goal of obtaining the goods offered for sale. In fact he was bummed about not winning - a completely reasonable reaction.

It's obvious Chris was provoked. I know I wouldn't sit back and let someone say something negative about me if I believed (<that's the key there) the truth to be otherwise. Frankly, he had every right to defend himself, but I am not keen on the way he did it - he attacked the wrong person to begin with.

All of that being said, the parts are sold. The bid is a legally binding contract between the seller and the bidder. It is up to them and only them to complete the transaction. I'll reiterate that while I haven't met him, I do not like M635CSi. I do not care for his attitude, but he can provide useful information, as we've seen. When he's questioned is when it gets ugly. I feel he was treated unfairly here in this thread, and thought I'd point it out. It really doesn't speak much for the community when we have these fights. It leads to quotes around community - which is never a good thing.

[DMNaskale]

BMWS38 was excited to be the high bidder, and unfortunately for him met his match against software which takes the fairness out of eBay.

Sorry to hijack your post, but since eBay has become a minor theme in this rambling slo-mo train wreck, allow me to defend the ugly bitch. There is nothing unfair in the basic system that ebay operates under. Newbies may not grasp the nuances of eBay, but their inexperience does not make the eBay community a bunch of crooked bastards. Of course there are a bunch of crooked bastards that use eBay, but they are usually rather simple to sniff out. eBay remains a sometimes frustrating but overall very useful way to buy and sell things that would otherwise be very difficult to obtain or get rid of for a good price. The vast majority of eBay users that I have dealt with are good people. I have been using eBay for 6 years or so and I have hundreds of transactions and 100% positive feedback. I have made friends through eBay. Hell, I first met Layton through eBay.

The most basic rule of eBay is, you have to bid what the absolute most you are willing to pay is. If you are outbid, then someone else wanted it more than you. If everyone followed that premise then sniping would not even exist. The reason sniping is common is because some people don't make their top bid, they bid in small increments until they are the high bidder, and then the snipers come along and put in their top bid late in the game and the guy who was watching his bid top the auction feels cheated when the true winning bid pops up. The thing about sniping is, it is a strategy to prevent a bidding war if you want something that one of the little-bit-at-a-time bidders wants. They might be willing to eventually run it up beyond what the sniper is willing to pay, but their poor strategy does not allow then the time to do it. I almost always snipe auctions, and I never use software to do it. And I have never lost an auction that I felt cheated on, because even if another sniper shot in a winning bid at the end, it was for more than I was willing to pay. Simple, in a kinda complicated way.

[Duke]

I rarely buy on ebay anymore but when I do, I use powersnipe.

If you can't beat them............

[wkohler]

I was just saying that sniping software is one of the worst things to come about. I've been an eBay member since '02 and it has become way too prevalent. Almost no one used it before. Now, I can't win anything. I'm not paying to snipe either.

[turbodan]

I rarely buy on ebay anymore but when I do, I use powersnipe.

If you can't beat them............

Thats pretty gay.

[Duke]

Thats pretty gay.

Gay, no.......smart, yes. You go ahead and sit at your computer entering bids at the last possable second. I will let Powersnipe do it for me.

[Skeen]

The point is, sniping software doesn't help you if you'd just bid your max price in the first place.

[Duke]

The point is, sniping software doesn't help you if you'd just bid your max price in the first place.

It sure the hell does. Yes I enter my max bid that I want to pay for the item in powersnipe.

No bid for me is placed on the auction, so other bidders have no clue that I want it. My bid is entered in the last 10 seconds by powersnipe and in most cases I get it for much less than if I had entered my max bid in the ebay system and let other bidders keep picking at it until I am out bid or the auction amount is raises to my max.

For example - I want a widget and am willing to pay $100. I enter $100 into ebay and one other bidder is willing to pay $90 but starts at $50 and keeps raising it until it is over $90. Now I enter my $100 in powersnipe and let it do the last second bid for me. The other guy enters $50 and it stays that way until the last 10 seconds when my bid of $51 wins the auction. That is if the other guy only bids $50 and intends on creeping the bid up over time which most people do.

[skip535i]

Skip, I don't see what he did again. We don't know what happened. M635CSi baits people into responding half-cocked, and then uses that against you to make you look not as smart as him, then he pulls out the "big words" to make himself look better.

I'll reiterate that while I haven't met him, I do not like M635CSi. I do not care for his attitude, but he can provide useful information, as we've seen. When he's questioned is when it gets ugly. .

Contradictory? You tell me you don't see what he did and then go on to repeat my exact reasons for not liking him. O well... I think we agree in parallell universes!

[turbodan]

Thats pretty gay.

Gay, no.......smart, yes. You go ahead and sit at your computer entering bids at the last possable second. I will let Powersnipe do it for me.

I usually watch until the last 45 seconds or so. The process of bidding takes no more than 30 seconds, depending on the current connection speed. I don't run up the price by bidding up until the last few moments. Thats retarded. I throw what I'm willing to throw at it at the last instant. I've never lost an auction that way. I've passed on them because they were up to more than I was willing to pay, but I've never lost. Sniping programs are for lazy dicks.

[DMNaskale]

I was just saying that sniping software is one of the worst things to come about. I've been an eBay member since '02 and it has become way too prevalent. Almost no one used it before. Now, I can't win anything. I'm not paying to snipe either.

I don’t understand what the big deal about sniping is. You cannot lose an auction because of a sniper. Period, end of story. You can only lose an auction because you were outbid. It doesn’t matter if I put in my bid 10 seconds after the auction was posted or 1 second before the end, if I wanted the item more than anyone else then I will win, and the snipers can pound sand. Your bid is not high enough if a sniper beats you. It has nothing to do with the sniper bid coming in at the last minute. The sniper puts a limit on how much he is willing to bid and if he beats you then it was more than your maximum bid. I have lost plenty of auctions when I was the sniper and my bid was the last one entered. I lost because the maximum bid that was already posted was higher than what I put in. I didn’t know if I would win or not, I was only bidding what I was willing to pay. If there is something I can’t live without, then I will bid a huge amount for it, whatever the theoretical limit is to its value to me, but I know the chances of me paying that much are very slim unless there is another geek out there similarly afflicted. I will only end up paying one small increment higher than the second highest bid, no matter what I bid.

For example, if S38, the guy who was bidding on Chris’s parts, only thought they were worth $1500 bucks then he got outbid, fair and square. But lets say that he would have been willing to pay $2000 and he had bid that much. The auction would have still only shown his bid as $1500 until the snipers bid came in. If the sniper had only bid $1750 then the sniper would have lost and S38 would have got the parts for $1775. If the sniper had bid any amount higher than $2025 then the sniper would have won the parts for $2025. The practice of sniping has no impact on the results of the auction if this case. S38 lost the auction because he didn’t want to pay enough, or he did not understand eBay well enough to use a proper buying strategy.

Sniping is really a limited tool, it only helps avoid silly price escalations by eBay amateurs. And maybe it provides a slight entertainment factor to the auctions. Lame as it may be, I snipe even when there is likely to be no competition for an item, it is just the way I like to bid. I won’t ever pay for a sniping service and I am usually near enough to a computer to make the final bid. If I am not, I make sure my only bid is my final one and take my chances.

[wkohler]

I was just saying it's useless to try to fight him. Just let him be.

w/r/t sniping, it's the software that's the problem. If a real person is sitting there, it's not as big of a deal - it's the software that pisses me off. There's nothing you or anyone can say to change my mind so forget it. I don't do much, if anything on eBay anymore.

[DMNaskale]

w/r/t sniping, it's the software that's the problem. If a real person is sitting there, it's not as big of a deal - it's the software that pisses me off. There's nothing you or anyone can say to change my mind so forget it. I don't do much, if anything on eBay anymore.

Fair enough. I am starting to feel like eBays pimp anyway, because she can definitely be a dirty whore.

[Duke]

Sniping programs are for lazy dicks.

That’s cool Dan. I will be the lazy dick asleep at 2 AM and you can be plopped in front of your computer hoping that your ISP does not go down.

Lately you are really starting to show us your real colors.

[skip535i]

I don't get what all the fuss is about...eBay will up your bid automatically...so why the hell wouldn't you just place your highest bid whenever you want?

I know why...some of you seem to think that its so beneficial to not look interested, but o well. I always just put my highest bid in....ALWAYS. If I REALLY want it I'll bid two or three times towards the end of the auction, but mostly I just do it whenever is convenient.

I have some 200 positive transactions on eBay. I've been sniped, sure, but never was I sniped for an amount that I would've paid myself.

[wkohler]

I have been sniped for an amount I'd pay. Whenever I bid, I always bid what I think the item is worth to me. Sometimes, the item ends for just a couple dollars more than my max bid. The last time I bid on something was for a VPI Scout turntable. It retailed new for $1650, but this was a couple years old, and it sat for six days at $590, the opening bid. I bid $900 on it, and it stayed there until 5 seconds, when a jewelry store bid more and the eBay page came up not responding when I tried to reenter a bid (which I could have done in less than 5 seconds). I bought a new one later for $1200 on Audiogon and the guy was nice.

[BMWS38]

I understand how ebay works. I wouldn't have paid to much more then the $1500. I was just pissed I lost, and I was suprised that somebody stayed up till 3am to bid at the last second. I think anybody who has bid on ebay knows that the bidding doesn't really start till the end.

[DMNaskale]

I don't get what all the fuss is about...eBay will up your bid automatically...so why the hell wouldn't you just place your highest bid whenever you want?

I know why...some of you seem to think that its so beneficial to not look interested, but o well. I always just put my highest bid in....ALWAYS. If I REALLY want it I'll bid two or three times towards the end of the auction, but mostly I just do it whenever is convenient.

I have some 200 positive transactions on eBay. I've been sniped, sure, but never was I sniped for an amount that I would've paid myself.

You contradict yourself. Reread the previous posts on the subject if you really don't understand how sniping can be beneficial.

[DMNaskale]

I understand how ebay works. I wouldn't have paid to much more then the $1500. I was just pissed I lost, and I was suprised that somebody stayed up till 3am to bid at the last second. I think anybody who has bid on ebay knows that the bidding doesn't really start till the end.

I was just making an example, I didn't know what your experience level with eBay is. It always surprises me how many people that have used it still don't understand it. It sucks that you lost the auction, but you never know, that other guy might have bid $2500.

[Rich Euro M5]

Sniping programs are for lazy dicks.

That’s cool Dan. I will be the lazy dick asleep at 2 AM and you can be plopped in front of your computer hoping that your ISP does not go down.

Like Duke, I too use Powersnipe for the same reasons. If I see something I'm interested in I load up Powersnipe with my max bid amount. If at any time the auction exceeds my max bid I get an email from Powersnipe telling me so. I can then decide if I want to raise my max bid amount or simply ignore it and let the item go.

It sure as hell beats having to remembering at what time do I have to get logged into eBay to bid at the last minute. I used to bid like you other guys and sat up watching a bid for my staggered ALPINA Open Lugs on eBay.de back in the late '90s. This was before broadband was common and sniping programs didn't exist. I had a synchronous DSL connection that was essentially a T1 line. I watched a person bid in Australia and 45 seconds before the end, I entered my bid. Today I probably wouldn't have won because I can't get a bid in at 10 seconds like Powersnipe does. I also gained a friend in Germany from this deal, whom Duke also started doing business with.

Just my $.02.

Rich

[turbodan]

Sniping programs are for lazy dicks.

That’s cool Dan. I will be the lazy dick asleep at 2 AM and you can be plopped in front of your computer hoping that your ISP does not go down.

Lately you are really starting to show us your real colors.

Yes you will. Sweet dreams, dick.

EDIT:
Just so we're clear, that was intended to be a humorous jab, though I still insist those programs are for lazy dicks.

[M635CSi]

If I'm understanding how "Sniping programs" work correctly, they result in "unenforceable" wins. As a practical matter they do seem to work but it wouldn’t be correct to say an auction can be “won" that way. The reason you can’t "win" an auction that way is that sniper programs defeat the auction process before it ends. What that means is that although the clock on the auction continues to function as intended the auction itself does not. And the reason the auction no longer functions is that an unlawful attack has been lunched against the network. The reason sniper programs result in an unenforceable “win” is the legal requirement for “clean hands”. Any attempt to legally enforce a “sniped win” against an advanced adversary would probably result in legal defeat and humiliation.

Sniping is wartime strategy that has no place at an auction.

That’s my opinion…

[DMNaskale]

If I'm understanding how "Sniping programs" work correctly, they result in "unenforceable" wins. As a practical matter they do seem to work but it wouldn’t be correct to say an auction can be “won" that way. The reason you can’t "win" an auction that way is that sniper programs defeat the auction process before it ends. What that means is that although the clock on the auction continues to function as intended the auction itself does not. And the reason the auction no longer functions is that an unlawful attack has been lunched against the network. The reason sniper programs result in an unenforceable “win” is the legal requirement for “clean hands”. Any attempt to legally enforce a “sniped win” against an advanced adversary would probably result in legal defeat and humiliation.

Sniping is wartime strategy that has no place at an auction.

That’s my opinion…

Chris,
I think you may misunderstand how they work, or you are taking eBay way too seriously. They don't disrupt the auction at all, they do nothing that a person can't do at home. In fact, someone mentioned that the snipe service bids with ten seconds left in the auction and I have no problem getting bids in with less than 5 seconds left just doing it the old fashioned way. The way eBay auctions are setup, a legal bid may be placed at any time up until the auction ends. A snipe program has no adverse effect on the outcome of the auction, they just save Duke and Rich from missing their beauty sleep if they want something that is closing after bedtime. I am lucky that I never sleep so I don't need to pay for a sniper.

[M635CSi]

If I'm understanding how "Sniping programs" work correctly, they result in "unenforceable" wins. As a practical matter they do seem to work but it wouldn’t be correct to say an auction can be “won" that way. The reason you can’t "win" an auction that way is that sniper programs defeat the auction process before it ends. What that means is that although the clock on the auction continues to function as intended the auction itself does not. And the reason the auction no longer functions is that an unlawful attack has been lunched against the network. The reason sniper programs result in an unenforceable “win” is the legal requirement for “clean hands”. Any attempt to legally enforce a “sniped win” against an advanced adversary would probably result in legal defeat and humiliation.

Sniping is wartime strategy that has no place at an auction.

That’s my opinion…

Chris,
I think you may misunderstand how they work, or you are taking eBay way too seriously. They don't disrupt the auction at all, they do nothing that a person can't do at home. In fact, someone mentioned that the snipe service bids with ten seconds left in the auction and I have no problem getting bids in with less than 5 seconds left just doing it the old fashioned way. The way eBay auctions are setup, a legal bid may be placed at any time up until the auction ends. A snipe program has no adverse effect on the outcome of the auction, they just save Duke and Rich from missing their beauty sleep if they want something that is closing after bedtime. I am lucky that I never sleep so I don't need to pay for a sniper.

Daryl,
Thanks for the correction and clarification. Far be it from me to interfere with Duke and Rich getting some beauty sleep. My sense of how the sniping programs worked was they bombarded the service and locked out other bidders. I know ebay has a system to allow the maximum bid which is what I have done, simply decide my walk away number and bid the smallest increment below that. I've heard tell that sniping programs will stop a win under those circumstances. Does that work against sniping programs and if so, what is the appeal of using a sniping program?

[wkohler]

The programs essentially place your bid in absentia. It is just an automated way of bidding, so you're still authorizing it and following eBay's terms and conditions agreements when you confirm a bid. The program just does all of the work for you.

The appeal of the sniping programs is that they can bid so much closer to the end of the auction - some down to one second - than a human being using a computer can. That is why I feel they are unfair, which I realize is not a rational complaint to many. Many a time have I been the high bidder at 1 second, only to refresh, expecting to see the green check mark, but instead see the red X saying I was outbid by a piece of crap with a sniping program.

[M635CSi]

So the sniper programs are faster than the ebay automated bid program?

[M. Holtmeier]

So, the difference between sniping software and placing your max bid through ebay is that with sniping software, you never actually bid until the last 10 seconds?

[wkohler]

To answer both of your questions, the sniping software will bid when you tell it to, so it begins the bidding and authentication process so there is enough time to have the bid entered by X seconds remaining. There is no point in using this software to bid days or hours before an auction ends. It still communicates with eBay's servers like the individual computers do when bidding. It is not an eBay service (although they could make a bunch of money offering it), so it is not quicker than eBay's system. The eBay system just compares bids against the highest bidder's bid, raising to the next incriment, so nothing is as fast as that. If the requested bid is lower than the current maximum, then it says you've been outbid by another bidder, raising the amount to the next incriment above the requested bid.

I hope that makes sense.

[M635CSi]

I hope that makes sense.

Yup, makes sense, thanks!