Hey guys, thanks for the responses to my other post. I figured i would start a new one for this question. Im having a hard time figuring out whats the deal with these ebay turbos. In specific i am talkinbg about a T4. Ok take for example this one just as a size and price reference. I am not actually sure but dont you think this one would be too small for the 3.5 big six?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3T4-T04 ... dZViewItem
Aside from the fact that its not a ball bearing turbo, and i know the "you get what you pay for" philo. and all but why are these almost 1/4 of the price of the rest of the big players out there?? Are they really that big of a POS that they can be that cheap. Im not trying to dump big money into my turbo yet since i just want to get a little bit of boost going for now and run the car then upgrade to something better later on. BUt i ask you, should i not buy something like this? Also what size would be best in the realm of the T4? Is .50/.63 too small?
Turbo selection
Thats a straight chinese generic turbo. If you are okay with buying a cheaply made ripoff turbo, it might just work. The thing is that theres no real information about that turbo. No compression maps, no replacement parts. I would stay strictly away from anything like that. I'd rather pay a little more for a Garrett or Turbonetics with published compression maps, specifications, replacement parts and an excellent reputation. Really it all depends on your principles and how long you plan on keeping the car. I don't like chinese ripoff junk, and I don't like sending money to the businesses that support that kind of thing.
Re: 60 trim
None of that means anything with a chinese ripoff turbo. Almost all of those listings say things like "50 trim compressor capable of .57 lb/min airflow" or "capable of 350RWHP on swaps". Its jibberish. I would be suprised if the A/R cast onto the housings was even correct. There are no real specifications for these crappy little chinese turbos. The only way you could tell basically what it is good for would be to measure the compresor inducer and have a look inside the throat of the turbine housing.g00b86 wrote:Ok so what would the numbers bee for a 60 trim turbo? This one says .50 A/R on the compressor side, .63 A/R Turbine and .57 compressor trim. What exactly does all that mean in corralation to what i want?
A Garrett T04E 60 trim has nothing in common with a generic chinese ripoff turbo advertised as a "60 trim". When you say 60 trim turbo, do you mean T3 60 trim? T04E 60 trim? Or are you referring to one of Garretts new GT series 60 trim wheels? All the compressor and turbine trim refers to is the size difference between the inducer and exducer diameters. Two 60 trim wheels could be completely different.
Garrett compression maps for everything they make and have made in the past are very easy to find. Thats the kind of information you need. Thats why I pay more for them. Because they're legit. I might have done great with a ripoff turbo, but even if you comeout ahead, you still sent a whole lot of money to China. Even in the best scenario, its still a bummer. To me anyway.
-
rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
-
rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
They have been a proven platform overseas for years on the m20 and m30 motorturbodan wrote:I don't know what people like so much about Holset turbos. I'd be suprised if they were as good as the same size Garrett snail. Perhaps people are attracted by the mystery and intrigue of having little to no manufacturer specifications available for them.
And used they are a LOT cheaper.
They have been proven so there is no suprise going on anymore.
-
rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
-
Rich Euro M5
- Posts: 6098
- Joined: Mar 10, 2006 6:20 AM
- Location: Klein, Texas
Re: 60 trim
What Turbodan is stating is probably very true regarding Chinese rip-off junk. In my other hobby, Scale R/C model planes a lot of models, engines and other parts are now made in China. In the R/C turbine engine world there is a rip-off turbine called a Jet Joe, manufactured by the Chinese. This turbine generated huge interest initially due to it's price point. Back when this engine first hit the market, a ready to run turbine in the 12lb thrust class cost about $3000. Jet Joe was selling their first turbine for ~ $900. That's a huge delta and if you could get a 12 lb class turbine for under $1000 it was a steal. But as most have found out, it cost a bunch of money and a concerted effort by the DIY'rs in the model turbine world to make these things work. Most ended up investing close to the cost of a Wren turbine(high quality produced in England).turbodan wrote:None of that means anything with a chinese ripoff turbo. Almost all of those listings say things like "50 trim compressor capable of .57 lb/min airflow" or "capable of 350RWHP on swaps". Its jibberish. I would be suprised if the A/R cast onto the housings was even correct. There are no real specifications for these crappy little chinese turbos. The only way you could tell basically what it is good for would be to measure the compresor inducer and have a look inside the throat of the turbine housing.g00b86 wrote:Ok so what would the numbers bee for a 60 trim turbo? This one says .50 A/R on the compressor side, .63 A/R Turbine and .57 compressor trim. What exactly does all that mean in corralation to what i want?
A Garrett T04E 60 trim has nothing in common with a generic chinese ripoff turbo advertised as a "60 trim". When you say 60 trim turbo, do you mean T3 60 trim? T04E 60 trim? Or are you referring to one of Garretts new GT series 60 trim wheels? All the compressor and turbine trim refers to is the size difference between the inducer and exducer diameters. Two 60 trim wheels could be completely different.
Garrett compression maps for everything they make and have made in the past are very easy to find. Thats the kind of information you need. Thats why I pay more for them. Because they're legit. I might have done great with a ripoff turbo, but even if you comeout ahead, you still sent a whole lot of money to China. Even in the best scenario, its still a bummer. To me anyway.
To get back on point, you pay for what you get. So if you take a chance on a chinese clone of a turbo, don't be surprised when it prematurely fails or doesn't perform as you expect.
Rich
-
///ARINUTS...
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
Very Good comment. but if used on a steert car, I think an HX40 is a better match, even a bigger HX35 is a good choice, but that T3/T4 T04E A/R .63 Turbo is tiny for a M30.rundatrack wrote:I have a hx40 and the m20 is going to be able to spool that at around 3-3500 rpmbimmerboy wrote:how well would a hx50 spool? I always planned on a HX40 being real nice on an m30. They'll both support huge power...
m30 shouldnt have a problem spooling the hx50 at the same rpm range at all...
-
rundatrack
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Feb 12, 2006 12:00 PM
well I know a properly setup m20 can do very well with a hx40///ARINUTS... wrote:Very Good comment. but if used on a steert car, I think an HX40 is a better match, even a bigger HX35 is a good choice, but that T3/T4 T04E A/R .63 Turbo is tiny for a M30.rundatrack wrote:I have a hx40 and the m20 is going to be able to spool that at around 3-3500 rpmbimmerboy wrote:how well would a hx50 spool? I always planned on a HX40 being real nice on an m30. They'll both support huge power...
m30 shouldnt have a problem spooling the hx50 at the same rpm range at all...
If it was a str8 line car then the hx50 could be used as well
hx40-50 would be great for that m30 like you said....
thanks
Thanks guys, for all the info. The problem im having though is that i have a t3/t4 flange mounted to this manifold so i am trying to stay in the realm of those turbos. Something like a T04E is what the guy who had this before me had mocked up.
Re: thanks
Which one is it? A T3 or a T4? A T3/T4 is a kind of hybrid turbocharger, with a T3 turbine and a T4 compressor. Lots of turbos fit a T3 flange. You should probably get a better handle on turbo stuff before you make too many decisions.g00b86 wrote:Thanks guys, for all the info. The problem im having though is that i have a t3/t4 flange mounted to this manifold so i am trying to stay in the realm of those turbos. Something like a T04E is what the guy who had this before me had mocked up.
..
Turbodan, I know alot of ppl come in here and just say "hey i want this thing turbocharged..." blah blah blah and are usually complete idiots when it comes to car stuff. OK now i know im not exactly up to standard on a few things but i have been doing my own research as well as the fact that im in my 3rd year at lehigh university as an automotive mechanincal engineer. So im not exactly dumb in the sense of just another newb fool who wants to slap some shit on his car cuz its cool. Im not trying to make a snidely retort either. I just want everyone to know i do know enough information as it is. I do however see the amiguity in what i said i appologize. The actual manifold is in my po box in new jersey while im in PA still so will be able to measure the flange this weekend to see what is needed exactly, i.e why i said t3/t4 just so everyone can stay in that area. Thanks tho for the input.
.
M635CSi,
Heres what im looking to replace, something possibly the same size maybe smaller im not exacrtly sure. Im not looking to make more than 5-7 psi right now until i can get the car running correctly. Is that for sale? just asking b.c the way u said it made me think u might have one on hand. Heres what i was talking about
[/img]https://cp1.cc.lehigh.edu/cp/email/mess ... NINBOX0058
Heres what im looking to replace, something possibly the same size maybe smaller im not exacrtly sure. Im not looking to make more than 5-7 psi right now until i can get the car running correctly. Is that for sale? just asking b.c the way u said it made me think u might have one on hand. Heres what i was talking about
[/img]https://cp1.cc.lehigh.edu/cp/email/mess ... NINBOX0058
Re: .
g00b86,g00b86 wrote:M635CSi,
Heres what im looking to replace, something possibly the same size maybe smaller im not exacrtly sure. Im not looking to make more than 5-7 psi right now until i can get the car running correctly. Is that for sale? just asking b.c the way u said it made me think u might have one on hand. Heres what i was talking about
[/img]https://cp1.cc.lehigh.edu/cp/email/mess ... NINBOX0058
The link in your post doesn't open...
The turbo pictured is from an early, low boost (7 lbs?), non intercooled Dinan M30 turbo system.
There is a plate riveted to the compressor housing indicating the unit has been rebuilt.
But it doesn't indicate by whom, and it doesn't indicate by when...
I have other turbo systems so I'm up in the air about keeping this or selling it.
If the way I said it made you think I "might have one on hand" then I said it correctly.
turbo
The turbo that was set up to run on this manifold by the orginial owner was a T04E "P trim" turbo with what i was told is something like .68 A/R on the one side and .80 on the exhaust... which seems really really lare in comparison to what i was thinking of using.