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Pre-Installation Quesitons

Discussion pertaining to positive pressure E28s.
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George
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Location: Seattle, WA

Pre-Installation Quesitons

Post by George »

A few questions for you guys:

Most of these questions apply to the TCD set-up

1) Whats the efficiency of the intercooler?

2) Whats the capacity of the cooling reservoir?

3) What is the maximum rate of the cooling pump?

4) Should any synthetics be added to the cooling system to further raise the heat transfer capability?

5) At 10-13psi, Whats the best diff ratio for maximum acceleration (but taking into account wheelspin and a 265 tranny)? I understand that alot of you guys run 3.25s and 2.93s but that just seems incredibly tall.

6) I know most of you are driving e28s/e34s, but will I encouter any problems mounting the TCD exhaust to the 88/89 e24?

7) Is the head normally pulled during installation of the turbo set-up?

Sorry for all the questions, as I'm rebuilding the head for the turbo installation and I'm trying to do everything in the correct order. Thanks in advance.
T_C_D
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Re: Pre-Installation Quesitons

Post by T_C_D »

thesixerkid wrote:A few questions for you guys:

Most of these questions apply to the TCD set-up

1) Whats the efficiency of the intercooler?

2) Whats the capacity of the cooling reservoir?

3) What is the maximum rate of the cooling pump?

4) Should any synthetics be added to the cooling system to further raise the heat transfer capability?

5) At 10-13psi, Whats the best diff ratio for maximum acceleration (but taking into account wheelspin and a 265 tranny)? I understand that alot of you guys run 3.25s and 2.93s but that just seems incredibly tall.

6) I know most of you are driving e28s/e34s, but will I encouter any problems mounting the TCD exhaust to the 88/89 e24?

7) Is the head normally pulled during installation of the turbo set-up?

Sorry for all the questions, as I'm rebuilding the head for the turbo installation and I'm trying to do everything in the correct order. Thanks in advance.
1. 70-75%
2. 1.3 gallons total
3. 5 gallons a minute
4. No, use as little coolant as your climate allows.
5. Depends on driving style but 3.25 is really nice at that boost level. Even a 3.46 is OK.
6. No, direct fit.
7. Only if replacing the headgasket.

Todd
George
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Location: Seattle, WA

Post by George »

Thanks Todd

A couple more questions:
I wasn't planning on using any coolant, (I'm in southern california) but was thinking more along the lines of something like Waterwetter from redline. I know its designed to reduce hot spots, but my thinking is that it can't hurt. Any thoughts?

Also, my math works out that with 5gal/min and a 1.3 gal tank, the water has reached complete circulation in 15.6 seconds. I was hoping to get that number to about 20-25 seconds. Any ideas or am I just chasing my tail. My thinking is that the first time through, under boost, the water wil be coolest thus providing the best cooling ability to the compressed air.
turbodan
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Post by turbodan »

Think "corrosion protection"
Brad D.
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Post by Brad D. »

thesixerkid wrote:Thanks Todd

A couple more questions:
I wasn't planning on using any coolant, (I'm in southern california) but was thinking more along the lines of something like Waterwetter from redline. I know its designed to reduce hot spots, but my thinking is that it can't hurt. Any thoughts?

Also, my math works out that with 5gal/min and a 1.3 gal tank, the water has reached complete circulation in 15.6 seconds. I was hoping to get that number to about 20-25 seconds. Any ideas or am I just chasing my tail. My thinking is that the first time through, under boost, the water wil be coolest thus providing the best cooling ability to the compressed air.
I have used Water Wetter in several cars due to the fact Im not worried about freezing coolant. It basically changes the surface tension of the water preventing pool boiling on hot surfaces inside the coolant jacket. When this occurs, water typically cannot occupy the same space as the superheated steam pocket and cooling never occurs. The other nice part about WW is that is has corrosion inhibitors like turbodan alluded to.

As for your flow calculation, the 5 gal/min is for open flow with no head pressure. You will be pumping through two heat exchangers, fittings and hoses, so I would bet that the effective flow rate is much lower than 5 gal/min. You would need to know the pressure drop across the system and the pump curve to calculate the appropriate flow rate.
George
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Post by George »

Your right, I should have thought about that when making the calcualtion. I suppose every set-up is slightly different depending on the application (ie e24/e28/e34), thus giving a different for head pressure loss. Any chance any one has calculated the head loss for the heat exhangers and intercooler?

Well my next question is: For those who run a water/air intercooler, have any of you upgraded your pump and reservoir to sustain longer periods of boost?
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

thesixerkid wrote: Well my next question is: For those who run a water/air intercooler, have any of you upgraded your pump and reservoir to sustain longer periods of boost?
Longer than what? We have many customers who run 30 minute driver's school sessions with no modifications to the intercooler system.

One customer did 2500 miles this year.

Todd
George
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Post by George »

I'm just refering back to my original assumption that the intercooler will be more effective when the water is being circulated for the first time under boost. By first time, i mean that there is adequate cooling time in between runs to

My thinking is that everytime after the first circulation, the water temperature will rise, thus limiting the cooling capability.

Im not doubting the intercoolers ability to run for extended periods of time. I'm just trying to configure a way to make it more effective for short to medium bursts of time.

I understand that a period of boost that lasts over 15 seconds is very unlikely on the street, but just as you mentioned I was thinking of a way to make the IC more effective for an organized driving event.
T_C_D
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Post by T_C_D »

thesixerkid wrote:I'm just refering back to my original assumption that the intercooler will be more effective when the water is being circulated for the first time under boost. By first time, i mean that there is adequate cooling time in between runs to

My thinking is that everytime after the first circulation, the water temperature will rise, thus limiting the cooling capability.

Im not doubting the intercoolers ability to run for extended periods of time. I'm just trying to configure a way to make it more effective for short to medium bursts of time.

I understand that a period of boost that lasts over 15 seconds is very unlikely on the street, but just as you mentioned I was thinking of a way to make the IC more effective for an organized driving event.
Add heat exchangers. All you need to do is make the heat exchangers able to eliminate as much heat as the intercooler absorbs.
Duke
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Post by Duke »

Check this out -

Click

And Here

Image

This will add 100% more HE capacity than the TCD S2 kit comes with. It is worth the work involved.
Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy »

You can either add real capacity by adding more heat exchangers to cool the water or increase the system volume by adding a larger intercooler coolant resevoir. The first option is better because you get more heat out of the system, but the second option is easier because you don't have to worry about airflow.

Additional volume in the system means it will take the water longer to get hot when you're on boost a lot.

Jeremy
George
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Post by George »

I like the idea of adding more heat exhangers, but is the stock pump sufficient to handle the head loss associated with the head loss from the additional heat exhangers?
Duke
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Post by Duke »

thesixerkid wrote:I like the idea of adding more heat exhangers, but is the stock pump sufficient to handle the head loss associated with the head loss from the additional heat exhangers?
Yes, the pump with move the same amount (gallons per minute) of water no matter how much there is.
Boru
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Post by Boru »

thesixerkid wrote:I like the idea of adding more heat exhangers, but is the stock pump sufficient to handle the head loss associated with the head loss from the additional heat exhangers?
As I think you know, judging by your use of the term "head loss", any addition of components and/or tubing length to the system will increase head loss.

The pump we supply exhibits a rather vigorous flow through the intercooler, dual heat exchangers and the lengths of hose. Another heat exchanger or even two should not reduce flow sufficiently to hamper the cooling.
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